I'm a little disappointed people still think this. The characters in KOTOR 2 were anything but one dimensional.PrinceOfShapeir said:
Poll: Who would you have wanted to develop the actual KOTOR 3?
- Thread starter Saladfork
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Yeah, that comment made me scratch my head a little too, but to each his own, I guess.chocolatekeith said:
Anyway, back to OT, the first time I played KotOR I, I loved it. I hadn't been into Star Wars since the mid 90s, but that game rekindled my interest in the setting. But, when I try replaying the game, I find myself getting frustrated.
During my first playthrough, I thought the whole "you are Revan" thing was an awesome plot twist, but when I started playing through the game additional times, it began to annoy me. The reason it annoys me is that you don't know that you're Revan. You effectively are a different person with an identity molded by the Jedi. This means that your redemption story is not the story of Revan redeeming herself (or hiself depending on the gender of your character). No, it's basically the story of your character cleaning up her past live's karma, which I guess is a kind of redemption, but atoning for what is effectively an ancestor's mistake doesn't really have the same emotional weight for me as someone atoning for the mistakes she has made in her own life.
Anyway, the more I play it, the more I feel that an amazing story opportunity was lost in favor of a one-shot plot twist, especially in light of what being aware of being Revan could have done for your interactions with Malak.
I would have loved it if there was a system where you could start a new game+ after beating the game once, and in this playthrough you could start unlocking memories of your old life in some way. And these would give you new dialogue options to reflect your increasing awareness of who you were. Admittedly, this would have been a lot of extra work to implement, so it's probably not realistic to say they could have done it, but realistic or not, I always find myself getting annoyed that my character is stuck with a rebuilt mind and can't recover her old self.
tl;dr:
I think the fact that you effectively aren't Revan anymore, just a new person with Revan's power, hobbles your "redemption" story.
Anyway, the more I play it, the more I feel that an amazing story opportunity was lost in favor of a one-shot plot twist, especially in light of what being aware of being Revan could have done for your interactions with Malak.
I would have loved it if there was a system where you could start a new game+ after beating the game once, and in this playthrough you could start unlocking memories of your old life in some way. And these would give you new dialogue options to reflect your increasing awareness of who you were. Admittedly, this would have been a lot of extra work to implement, so it's probably not realistic to say they could have done it, but realistic or not, I always find myself getting annoyed that my character is stuck with a rebuilt mind and can't recover her old self.
tl;dr:
I think the fact that you effectively aren't Revan anymore, just a new person with Revan's power, hobbles your "redemption" story.
KotOR II, on the other hand, is a game that didn't really grab me the first time I played it. I was like, "why don't I have a Lightsaber? This is lame." But at some point during my second playthrough, something happened, and all of the sudden I "got it." I got what the story was trying to do, and it was awesome. And since then, each playthrough has been amazing (even without the restored content mod, although that certainly makes it better). I love the story, and the primary antagonist is one of my favorite villains of all time. KotOR I just seems kind of empty in comparison, and I don't really play it anymore (but, again, that's mostly due to the insane, and probably unfair, complaint that I outline in the spoiler above).
So, long story short, my vote goes to Obsidian over Bioware, even over pre-EA Bioware.
Obsidian, every time. KOTOR I was a good game and the first time I played it, the twist was brilliant but I just prefer KOTOR II. The plot's brilliant, the party members are interesting and it was a darker side of SW which I liked. The gameplay was pretty good too, but that was just KOTOR I's gameplay with some new powers/feats.
One thing though, if they ever do make a KOTOR III (I can dream, ok?!), can Lucasarts actually let them finish it this time?
One thing though, if they ever do make a KOTOR III (I can dream, ok?!), can Lucasarts actually let them finish it this time?
Probably gonna regret this, but how are KOTOR II's characters one-note and shallow?PrinceOfShapeir said:
I picked Obsidian but I would honestly had picked old bioware in a heartbeat. Kotor 2 just had way too many bugs for me. Also didn't Lucas negate some of the kotor 2 story because he thought it was against canon or something? Of the two games i dd like the 1st a bit more might have just been it being the first game.
Obsidian. Current Bioware just wouldn't be up to the task anymore.
And if they were ever able to properly bug check their games Obsidian would be a better version of Bioware in their prime anyway. So in a hypothetical perfect world, a bug free Obsidian would have all the time they needed to make a proper KotOR 3.
For the record, I prefer the first KotOR, but had the second game not been rushed out and glitchy, that one would probably get my vote instead.
And if they were ever able to properly bug check their games Obsidian would be a better version of Bioware in their prime anyway. So in a hypothetical perfect world, a bug free Obsidian would have all the time they needed to make a proper KotOR 3.
For the record, I prefer the first KotOR, but had the second game not been rushed out and glitchy, that one would probably get my vote instead.
Dear god, Obsidian. Definitely. After playing 2, I could never go back to 1.
In spite of its flaws.
Just as many others have said, just give Obsidian enough time to actually make the game and get some QA on it, and BAM, instant classic.
In spite of its flaws.
Just as many others have said, just give Obsidian enough time to actually make the game and get some QA on it, and BAM, instant classic.
I would say obsidian but i just dont believe that they are capable of producing a game thats complete. So Bioware, especially after the quality of DA:O.
So, this is the thread where all of the Obsidian fans and all of the Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 haters come together and hate Bioware as a team. So let me make absolutely no friends in this thread by saying Obsidian sucks, and the only things they have made since being founded were games i'd charitably call 'Passable.'
But everyone has such short memories with, you know, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege 3, New Vegas. You'd think people would remember the pattern with Obsidian. Everyone defends them, claims their awesome, they release awesome screenshots... And then the game blows.
But everyone has such short memories with, you know, Alpha Protocol, Dungeon Siege 3, New Vegas. You'd think people would remember the pattern with Obsidian. Everyone defends them, claims their awesome, they release awesome screenshots... And then the game blows.
Yes, because it's not possibly to like both companies, nuh uh, absolutely not... right.Khazoth said:
Let me prove you wrong by saying that I've defended, time and again, Bioware for both Dragon Age 2, with the hate that's been blown absolutely out of proportion and that I enjoyed the ME3 ending, both pre- and post-EC. In fact, ME3 is my fourth favourite game overall. Despite that, I still prefer the writing of Obsidian over Bioware, because it's well... better.
I have to ask. When did Obsidian ever release screenshots that made people think they were awesome? Is it unfathomable that people actually, you know, played their games and I dunno, enjoyed them?
You're free to prefer Bioware over Obsidian, hell, I don't think anyone gives a shit whether you do or not, but making blatantly stupid generalisations is what's "not making you any friends".
I still like Bioware, in my opinion both SWTOR and Mass Effect 3 were great games, Dragon Age 2 was disappointing for me, but that would mean one out of three recent games was not up to code, so I would definitely buy Kotor III if it had Bioware's logo on it
I like Obsidian's games because I find them to be engaging in a way that few other games are for me. And, to be honest, I've never really noticed many bugs in Obsidian's games. I guess I'm just lucky, though, because I constantly hear people talking about how they are nearly unplayable.Khazoth said:
How about they BOTH do it? Co-op that development.
Obsidian writes and comes up with ideas, Bioware makes the mecanichs work right, and make the game actually run properly.
Boom, best RPG ever made.
Obsidian writes and comes up with ideas, Bioware makes the mecanichs work right, and make the game actually run properly.
Boom, best RPG ever made.
And? People like Bethesda as well and their games are also incredibly buggy. Personally I like Obsidian because they are actually trying to be different and not just copy pasting someone else's work. KOTOR 2 is easily the most unique Star Wars game I've ever played and odds are will play. Can't comment on Alpha Protocol but I know a lot of people who like it a lot and still need to get around to it myself. For New Vegas compared to the usual fare it actually makes a good case at being dark with the people crucified in the towns that the Legion went to and with characters like Boone. As for Dungeon Siege 3 I can't comment too much since while I own the game on PC I haven't played much of it though I'm using a gamepad since those PC controls were absolutely horrible which Obsidian themselves admitted.Khazoth said:
Also about that unfinished claim. For some reason the usual development period for AAA games now is 2 years. On numerous occassions Obsidian has been given only a single year and managed to make games that are at least on the same level as their predecessor. Also personally I've had more problems with Bioware's recent works than any Obsidian game I've played.
Basing on my enjoyment of either game in what I put into the Xbox console....
I like KotOR 1 a hell of a lot more than KotOR 2. So...Bioware.
Maybe if Obsidian had more time?
I like KotOR 1 a hell of a lot more than KotOR 2. So...Bioware.
Maybe if Obsidian had more time?
Well, I've personally never really thought it to be that bad. I've had multiple playthroughs of Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment(not technically them, I know, but a lot of the same people), KotOR 2, etc, and I've never really found anything particularly bad, not worse than what you'd find in other games.Khazoth said:
Bugginess aside, I think what people are what people are attracted to in Obsidian is the writing. Take for instance something like choices and consequences. Look at Alpha Protocol, where choices matter, both in terms of separate hubs, but also throughout the entire game and dictates what endings you get and such. Then look at a game like ME2, where the ending choice is made, with no influence at all from anything else during the game, it's a decision made then and there, regardless of how paragon/renegade you've chosen to be.
EDIT:
I highly recommend you get around to playing it sooner, rather than later. It has the best choice and consequences in any game I've ever played, easily, without them being black and white.80Maxwell08 said: