Poll: Why is it that some Americans believe they won the war of 1812?

[Lord George]

are you being sarcastic?
sorry, but relations have been the coldest since we last had a war

Oh yeah America and Britain hate each other! That's why in World War I we cut off trade with them completely and joined the Germans! That's also the reason why we where on the axis side in world war II! And remember when we helped those rascally Russians take over Berlin and invade the rest of Europe? Yeah fuck the UK. I sure am glad we're in hostile standings with them and have no part of those faggy groups like NATO. Now if you'll excuse me I have a flight to catch and my submarine leaves in 600 parsecs.

Well actually you traded with both sides in WW1 initially and only stopped when the Germans outright attacked you, but the point is EquinoxETO is correct, the UK has a very low opinion of the US as a country and relations are very low with the public, I think the Tories are even using separating more from America relations as a voting point (well they have certainty hinted at it). (Mind you this relations is only against America as a country, not its people.)

 

[Nickolai77]

I like how the OP can declare that anyone who disagrees with him is a troll that should be modded. Great display of intelligence there.

Anyways, the War of 1812 was an embarrassment to Britain. Britain's legendary navy was neutered and Britain lost its ability to manipulate its old colony. By sheer force of numbers, Britain was able to maintain several blockades and launch several coastal raids, but they could not maintain control over the seas themselves. The ultimate result of the war was not the Treaty of Ghent, but the Monroe Doctrine.

The territory returned is, really, insignificant. Yes, it's 10 million acres, but acres are small. We're talking roughly the size of Michigan's Upper Peninsula here, except spread much thinner. The reason that the US had so much more negotiating leverage in the treaty is the economic impact on Britain. Neither side really had the will to continue fighting, but the opposed public sentiment was stronger in Britain, which had been forced to use black market ships for commodities (especially food) normally obtained cheaply from the Americas, but, as noted above, many of those ships were confiscated by American privateers. Estimates put the ship losses at around 1,500 for Britain and 280 for America.

Insurer Lloyd's of London reported a loss of 1,175 ships, of which 373 where re-captured, so in total Britain lost 802 vessals. America lost 1,500 vessels. The American Navy did win some impressive victories, but this was down to the fact that the Royal Navy was over stretched maintaining a blockade all down the Atlantic Coast. Considering the sheer size that the Royal Navy blockaded, cutting American exports from $113 million dollars to $7 million dollars, in some cases forcing American sea side town's to pay tribute to the Royal Navy, as well as assisting in the release of thousands of American slaves, the blockade was a success and Royal Navy pride was intact. It's estimated that this war added £ 25 million to the national debt, this can only be estimated because Britain was also fighting the Napoleonic War at the time, so the war of 1812 was very much a side show for the British war effort as a whole. Never the less, despite fighting two wars at once, and accumulating a lot of debt, this did not stop Britain becoming the worlds economic super power a few decades later.

The wars result was status quo ant bellum because when Britain succeeded in defeating France the war in America was no longer needed. Britain no longer wanted to impress British deserters serving in the American navy, nor prevent America trading with France anymore. Further more America failed to make any gains in Canada, but had succeeded in breaking the Native-American tribal confederation. With the American economy going down the plug hole and Britain wanting peace, the treaty of Ghent was signed and returned things to as they where before the war started, hence no one won or lost anything. Unless your counting economic damage or military fatalities.

 

[mdk31]

We didn't lose, and against the most powerful empire in the world, that in itself can be seen as a sort of victory, can't it?

 

[CastIronWin]

It's not accurate to base a win on casualty numbers

why not, all fps games do it

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

Erm, wtf?

Just post a opinion not spamming pictures. and you don't know a thread is going to fail until someone comes along and acts like an idiot (looks at people posting pictures) Oh shit they already arived.

Learn to type right and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?
Learn to make non-biased, interesting threads and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?

Did you read the original post? He actually stated that he didnt know to much about the subject so was trying to get the opinions of from people that know more about the subject at hand...
Although the idiot comment was a bit OTT

 

[Amnestic]

We didn't lose, and against the most powerful empire in the world, that in itself can be seen as a sort of victory, can't it?

Don't think it works like that, sonny jim.

This whole war seems like a big bitching session over not very much which culminated in everyone getting together and saying "You know what? Can't be arsed with this anymore. Let's start over guys." Signed a treaty and then went home to their wives to sleep with their maids.

In other words, no one won. Canada exists, the US exists and Britain exists. Why do some Americans believe they won in 1812? Probably because that's the spin their history teachers put on it. If we bothered learning about the war of 1812 in Britain, we'd probably have a reverse spin placed on it in favour of our side. That's kind of what happens. No one should be surprised at this, least of all the OP or anyone else in this thread.

are you being sarcastic?
sorry, but relations have been the coldest since we last had a war

Oh yeah America and Britain hate each other! That's why in World War I we cut off trade with them completely and joined the Germans! That's also the reason why we where on the axis side in world war II! And remember when we helped those rascally Russians take over Berlin and invade the rest of Europe? Yeah fuck the UK. I sure am glad we're in hostile standings with them and have no part of those faggy groups like NATO. Now if you'll excuse me I have a flight to catch and my submarine leaves in 600 parsecs.

Well actually you traded with both sides in WW1 initially and only stopped when the Germans outright attacked you, but the point is EquinoxETO is correct, the UK has a very low opinion of the US as a country and relations are very low with the public, I think the Tories are even using separating more from America relations as a voting point (well they have certainty hinted at it). (Mind you this relations is only against America as a country, not its people.)

There are a lot of people worldwide who aren't happy with the current state of America and how they affect world politics. Blair's suckling of Bush's teets for the past few years has been a particular source of antagonistic feelings, only fuelled further by continued deaths of British soldiers on foreign soil in conflict we really have no place in besides "supporting America."

Compounded with the fairly recent verbal attack on our healthcare system, it's no real surprise that a fair few British people hold America in less and less regard as a friend and more as a nation we're forced to get along with so that they won't deem us a 'threat to national security' and unleash an 'overseas contingency' at us.

Suiseiseki was right in that we did accept them as a nation following 1812, but needless to say, recent events haven't exactly endeared the US in the eyes of the British people.

 

[Aunel]

wow, I didn't know there was a war then.

we are just stuck here with our narcotics and stupid language.

 

[G1eet]

http://faithmaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/andrew_jackson.jpeg

This is all I have to say.

This is the one and only answer.

Of course.
We should make a cult that worships Jackson.

If so, we should push Congress to let us have a day off commemorating Jackson foiling his own assassination plot.

"Oh, your petty pistols misfired? Tough luck."
*proceeds to beat senseless with his cane*

On topic... you all know Tchaikovsky won.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Better question: Why the hell does anyone care?

 

[Jaythulhu]

Same reason that 43% of americans can't find the USA on a map, and 37% of them are convinced that jesus was born in missouri.

Which is the same reason that some people think that daylight savings is appropriate for queensland: Stupidity can't be fixed by prescription meds yet.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

The US totally destroyed Britain in that war, You need to get your facts right kid.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Your poll makes invalid assumptions. The winner of a war isn't really a matter of fact but a matter of judgment about facts. There isn't a very clear winner in the War of 1812, it's not like they were playing capture the flag or body count or something; war is never so precise in its rules about who wins and it's always somewhat a matter of interpretation. If I'm expected to be taken over by a hostile government, a stalemate with no territory loss can easily constitute a win. But that is still a matter of judgment. By the standards which set Vietnam as a loss for the United States (repulsed but inflicted enormous casualties and infrastructure damage) 1812 was a win for the United States, and an even greater win than Vietnam was a loss.

And with that statement, I won the War of 1812.

 

[Seanchaidh]

It's not accurate to base a win on casualty numbers

why not, all fps games do it

Capture the flag.

Oops, no they don't!

 

[Jaythulhu]

And with that statement, I won the War of 1812.

You did not. It was Col. Mustard, in the library, with the candlestick.

 

[Seanchaidh]

And with that statement, I won the War of 1812.

You did not. It was Col. Mustard, in the library, with the candlestick.

Lies. It was the Butler! My Butler, on behalf of me!

 

[Sparrow]

Because the part of America that everyone hates, you know, the government, likes to think they can throw their weight around and proclaim they won battles they lost.

Anyway, I always just like to take out the fact that England pwnd France from this story everytime I hear it. I have no idea why, I'm not a very pro-war guy, but it's just nice to hear I suppose.

 

[dududf]

*snip*

Frankly it's hard to get the point you're saying when it looks like you're attacking me personally. When you disinvolve myself, and get straight to the point THEN I can see it, as it's not being personal and I'd take your advice to heart.

Where as it looks like you're being an ass who doesn't get what I'm saying, why would I take all of your future annoyances to heart?

2 people, similar points I understood what cheeze was trying to say because he de-personalafied it. Where as from my perspective it apeared that you were attacking me DIRECTLY.

Also I'd just like to point out that you are 100% wrong when you said that I onyl care about reinforcing my point, as this whole thread it to find out the other side. The title was probably off, and should bechanged *If I knew how O_O* but to me it looked like a pretty straight forward question to Americans.


any who, good to see you're not giving me the impression of a personality assault and getting to the details. Sorta...

 

[Ph33nix]

well if you say that the U.S. lost Vietnam by the same Logic you must say Great Britain lost the war 1812. In both a big powerful nation beat up on a smaller nation and then decided it was no longer worth the effort and so pulled out without gaining anything. Now if you say that the U.S. did not loose Vietnam then Britain did not loose the war of 1812.

 

[Gene O]

wow was this really worth opening a thread for? and even better lets add a vote box to it. i couldn't careless about the war of 1812 its one of the more obscured wars in history so really... you had absolutly nothing else to do besides this? wow

And you had nothing better to do than read and comment on a thread you don't care about. I bow to your superior time management skills.