Poll: Why TF2 (and Valve) is worrying me

[lacktheknack]

Does this annoy anyone else, or am I just a little non-conformist?

No, you just don't understand how economics work.

One time entry fee + Updates forever = MASSIVE, ENORMOUS, HEAD CRUSHING financial losses in the long run.

The equation above + Microtransactions = Profit.

Simple.

 

[lacktheknack]

Actually none of what Valve is doing is dumb or a disservice to their customers. Why? Because people love the Mann store. It is a resounding success.

You play on the servers, that's what alot of them talk about- "trade me this hat for x...", "do you have x item..."....and so on.

TF2 players love the store, wearing the hats and using the new weapons.

I was surprised to see the TF2 community getting into all this hat wearing mumbo jumbo. Good job on Valve's part.

See thats what bugs me. Wasn't making people buy in-game items with real money the same reason everyone on this site went ape shit over Zynga?

No, we went nuts at Zynga because of the March Madness debacle that started with Zynga flooding the forums and ended with a FREAKING /b/ INVASION, pictures of chopped up children, endlessly flowing hatred and Zynga denying it ever happened. It was the worst day ever for our poor mods.

 

[Citrus]

Yeah, I thought the TF2 store was really out of character for Valve. One item bundle goes as high as $50. That's more than the game! And don't give me that "then don't buy it, hurr durr". It's the principle of the thing. I understand it's for people who don't want to deal with the stupid random drop system, but I think being able to purchase any in-game advantage is unfair and defeats the purpose of the advantages. It's something you'd expect out of Bobby Kotick.

On the other hand, I think it was more an experiment to see how they could get players involved financially on creating in-game content, which is fair I guess. I just wish they didn't do the experiment on one of my favourite games.

EDIT: For the record, Valve never stopped profiting from TF2. The updates always yielded enough new sales to keep the income above the development costs. Just thought I should point that out.

 

[Yokai]

Yeah, I thought the TF2 store was really out of character for Valve. One item bundle goes as high as $50. That's more than the game! And don't give me that "then don't buy it, hurr durr". It's the principle of the thing. I understand it's for people who don't want to deal with the stupid random drop system, but I think being able to purchase any in-game advantage is unfair and defeats the purpose of the advantages. It's something you'd expect out of Bobby Kotick.

No it's not, because Kotick wouldn't let you get the items any other way. Valve just wants to make a little extra money; Activision is only concerned with maximizing their profit and doesn't much care what the players think.

For the most part, I don't mind the store, because all the items are available via trading, crafting, random drops, or even the good old achievement milestones--with the exception of the crates and keys. That does piss me off, because here you are paying $2.50 for a random item that could be a hat...or it could be a Sandman or the KGB or some other item you have seven of already. If they made it so you knew what you were getting beforehand, or even charged a little extra for a permanent key that you could use to open every crate you found from then on, it would make sense, but in its current form it's a complete scam.

 

[theSovietConnection]

Actually none of what Valve is doing is dumb or a disservice to their customers. Why? Because people love the Mann store. It is a resounding success.

You play on the servers, that's what alot of them talk about- "trade me this hat for x...", "do you have x item..."....and so on.

TF2 players love the store, wearing the hats and using the new weapons.

I was surprised to see the TF2 community getting into all this hat wearing mumbo jumbo. Good job on Valve's part.

See thats what bugs me. Wasn't making people buy in-game items with real money the same reason everyone on this site went ape shit over Zynga?

Bolded is the difference. The only thing Valve makes you buy for TF2 is the key for the boxes, which is the only issue I have with the microtransactions. Everything else is so far optional, you can get the drop in game for free, or you can shell out $17 or whatever it is and buy it if you're that impatient.

 

[ripoff996]

I know what you mean
I keep an eye on things in the store but I would never buy from it
and i would only trade if asked to by a friend
(I would also have to know the person)

 

[Mr. Omega]

There are ony two problems I have:

1: Why drop crates? Why not just drop a random item? Or at least make keys more common than crates? I hate the crates system. Not the Mann-conomy, just the crates. It has potential, but as it is now, it's just a scam to get you to buy keys.

2: The whole "Limited time" hats was annoying. Most of the stuff would stay in the store except these two hats (which were the best ones, IMO.) Not such a big deal, if they made them even a little bit cheaper.

Also, I personally don't like the whole "item set bonuses". It discourages mix-and-matching. I mean, the Degreaser is practially MADE for the Axestinguisher, and yet there is a bonus you get for having the Degreaser, Powerjack, and hat.

Edit:
On a side note: where's the poll?

 

[Caligulust]

I'm surprised people still care.

The TF2 community has pretty much moved on.
I mean, you can't trade anything you buy in there unless you want to count crate items. The game is balanced regardless of the added bonus effects. Like some of the others here, the crates are the only thing that bother me. I'd rather receive another item than a box I don't really want to open.

 

[timeadept]

Actually none of what Valve is doing is dumb or a disservice to their customers. Why? Because people love the Mann store. It is a resounding success.

You play on the servers, that's what alot of them talk about- "trade me this hat for x...", "do you have x item..."....and so on.

TF2 players love the store, wearing the hats and using the new weapons.

I was surprised to see the TF2 community getting into all this hat wearing mumbo jumbo. Good job on Valve's part.

See thats what bugs me. Wasn't making people buy in-game items with real money the same reason everyone on this site went ape shit over Zynga?

Makeing people buy stuff? the majority of stuff in that store is purely cosmetic and everything else is a side grade, it's not an unreasonable idea to still be competitive with the original gear. The new weapons and items are meant to add verity to the game play without disrupting the balance. Though i will say that there is some bias to play style, like if you like to shoot your rockets at your TARGET and not it's FEET then the direct hit is for you. Otherwise the original rocket launcher has its strong points, more splash damage mainly.

*EDIT* i forgot the most important point, all the weapons drop randomly anyways so you don't have to buy them anyways, just be patient.

 

[thedeathscythe]

You payed for the game for probably 20 bucks or less.
Just once.
They're expected to provide a continuous stream of updates for the rest of eternity.
They're losing money from it.

They have 3 options to stop losing money from TF2:
Pay to play/subscription
Micro Transaction System
ORRRR
Stop supporting the game altogether.

Which one would YOU want?

I completely agree with this.

I don't mind this, I won't buy from it because I'm not such a hardcore player that I need to buy the hats and such, but for the others, they're keeping the game alive, and fresh. Perhaps in a couple months if I get intense about TF2, I'll even partake in this, but for the sake of the game, I'd rather have TF2 with hats as opposed to no TF2.

 

[Delock]

So long as they don't take the old EA approach of DLC for every game they make that is both a huge advantage to the buyer, but also seems to be selling you parts of your own game, only to then completely stop caring about the game in a few months at best (Valve is selling items for a game that they seem to want to support for longer than it took to come out, and hasn't pulled any ridiculously overpowered items, maybe only slightly advantagous ones which the boost is done for the sake of justifying a purchase, that can only be gotten by microtransactions).

Anyways, found myself the best example of the whole hate/love parties for the hats/trading system. Be warned that it contains memes and in-jokes that might not make sense to nonHalolz-goers. Regardless, it's hilarious

Spoiler

Paulrus-Keaton: Team Fortress 2 is really really great.
Pubber: For hats.
PK: When I play as a Spy the haters always hate.
Pub: His hats.
PK: I'm good at guarding things.
Pub: Like hats.
PK: I play with decent pings.
PUB: And hats.
PK: I get some friends and steamroll the other team!
PUB: FOR HATS!

(Pubber!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
(Pubber!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
(STFU!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 HAS ONE COOL THING AND THAT'S HATS, HATS HATS!

PK: Dude. Don't interrupt people when they're talking.
Pub: Oh! Hello Paulrus! Did you update your game yet? I want to fuck a Mud-chick.
PK: I stopped that thing months ago, now let me I finish my song.
PK: But you suck.
PK: .....anyways.

PK: I'm glad Valve put out this quite addictive game.
Pub: With hats!
PK: I can't see why people would find it lame.
Pub: Theydon'tlikehats.
(Quiet!)
(Sorry.)
PK: With some chips and Gatorade
Pub: And h-...
PK: Instead of getting laid
Pub: Wat.
PK: I play all night then back to-my job and trade....
FOR HATS!

(OY!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
(FOR FUCKS SAKE!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
(Don't make me mute you!)
I'M UP ALL NIGHT SPRAYING LOLCATS AND TRADING HATS!

PK: Dude. I've played this game since day one. There's a reason why people play it.
Pub: Yeah. Buying and trading virtual objects like hats!
PK: That's stupid. Real players don't play this game to find hats!
Pub: Ohhhh?
PK: Wat.
Pub: You have NO idea. Ready real players?
Ogre: Ready!
Kemper: Ready!
Shawn: Nope.
Pub: Lemmie hear it!

TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
Ogre: Sorry, ******.
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS
Ogre: I have a pimp hat.
Admins and n00bs and trollers too craft HATS HATS HATS

PK: TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS NOT A FUCKING HAT SIMULATOR!
-HATS HATS HA-
PK: DON'T INTERRUPT ME!
Shawn: Nope.
PK: Look. I know that Ogre is very good as a Heavy, so good that his high scores make him more succeptable to crits.
Ogre: That's... one theory.
PK: And Kemper loves this game and the community, and has chosen to devote his spare time to being an admin for are wonderful Halolz server.
Kemper: Admin abuse is fun.
PK: Speaking of which, Shawn here is busy dealing with the website and a busy con schedule, but like the rest of you always takes the time to come here and play with fellow gamers and fans for enjoyment!
Shawn: Nope.
PK: Stop that.
Pubber: Yeah... but why do you think they devote long play hours to this game?
Kemper: ....*ahem* Yeah....
PK: .....God.....really?

TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS!
(Nerds!)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS!
(What value do they hold?!)
SO TYPE SPAM YOUR MIC AND CAUSE A LAG SPIKE FOR HATS HAT HATS HATS.
(You guys suck!)
HATS HATS HATS HATS
(I'm leaving TF2 FOREVER.)
HATS HATS HATS HATS HATS HATS HATS....
(I'm gonna play L4D2. *Paulrus-Keaton left the game.*)
HATS HATS HATS HATS!
Pubber: Team Fortress 2 is for
(Team Fortress 2 is for)
TEAM FORTRESS 2 IS FOR HATS!
Shawn: YEAH!

 

[Zhukov]

It doesn't bother me.

You're not forced to buy things. You're not at a disadvantage if you don't buy things. You can still get items through random drops and crafting.

The only things that annoy me are the crates. That was a bit of a dick move Valve.

Also, when the people on your team get distracted by trading. I'll be playing as my beloved Heavy, holding the line against three enemies with about 50hp left and all the while both our medics are standing in a corner haggling over scrap metal. Frustration ensues.

But apart from that, I have no problem with Valve's doings.

 

[tavelkyosoba]

wtf is "zef"?

And I'm not really getting why valve is bad now, can you explain a little better? I read your post a few times and said "what's his point?"

(I'm definitely not just trying to fanboi on valve. They make good products, but they also make big promises they don't keep.)

It just seems like you're making a fuss for the sake of making a fuss, like one of my bitchy co-workers who complain about everything.


Put them in the front of the line and they *****, put them at the end at they *****, put them in the middle and they *****...maybe they'd just like to go home?

 

[andriod]

i have no problem with this, do you think its wrong for valve to get money after so many deals and soo many free updates? i think its good, let those which find themselves in dire need of unlocks buy what they want, stops people from cheating the game and helps valve see what they can do in soon to be games/updates

 

[radicaledward92]

Its that whole buying in game items with real money thing. The Mann. Co. Store. Especially the fact that the key for the supply crates cost $2.49 and only gives you one friggen use. That ridiculous.

Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Valve seem to be toying with our trust? First the steamworks thing, which is totally not zef or cool at all, and now this Mann. Co. thing, which is also not zef or cool, and no one seems to be complaining. I always thought Valve was a better company then this and was always interested in the gamer, but I'm starting to lose that image.

Does this annoy anyone else, or am I just a little non-conformist?

Dear user,

Know your place before posting moronic comments about an entire industry that's been surviving with microtransaction stores , you clearly have no idea what your talking about since entire games have been surviving with income coming from microtransactions. The trick is to make a general set of weapons that everyone can use within the game and then creating variations that make upgrades to the original set and creating new weapons and items as time goes on. IT"S COMMON BUSINESS, THEY'VE MADE SO MANY UPDATES THAT THEYRE COMPLETELY OUT OF IDEAS. All that remains is to release the final meet the medic and flamer videos. After that they pretty much have no other updates except new maps D:, know about an industry before bitching like a fanboy

 

[guardian001]

You do realize that they've been giving free updates to a $20 game for 3 years, right? Any other company, every class update would've cost you at least another $10 (or $90 for a full set, $140 if we count the PolyCount pack)

None of these items are mandatory buys. You can trade your crates away if you don't want to buy keys. Everything in the store that has an effect can also be gotten free.

 

[Amyler]

Yeah, I thought the TF2 store was really out of character for Valve. One item bundle goes as high as $50. That's more than the game!

Actually, that's 5 item bundles sold together.

Really, there is no reason to buy from it if you don't want to. Personally, I got the polycount packs and a few hats, in part because horray for new stuff but also because it supports Valve and gets me things as well. If you don't want to buy from it, you don't need to and if you do you get extra stuff. There isn't any real downside.

And as for crates, sure they're kinda annoying with the drop rates, but keep in mind they don't count towards your weekly drop rate. Crates are a seperate count, meaning it doesn't matter what you do with them at all.

 

[jaketheripper]

um, did you really say zef? my god :/

OT:due to the fact that the need money to operate... im not worried at all. its a perfectly fine system that works, you can trade the crates if you dont like it, or you can trade for a key. honestly it worries me that people are forgetting that money is a big factor in this day and age. if it werent for the money that we pay, wede still be exactly the same as the consol version. im sorry, but please calm down, they update their games SO often. They care about the gamer. just because they need money doesnt mean they dont care anymore. its a business, thats how business works.

 

[blankedboy]

Okay.

There is a store there.

Some people want to buy stuff from it.

Some people don't.

Those who do, sometimes do.

Those who don't, don't.

And those who don't, still get their weapons and hats from drops, achievements, crafting, and trading.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

Next *****?

The only thing I don't like is just how many fucking crates drop.

A lot of people don't use them, and it's really fucking hard to find someone who will trade for them, because to most people they're essentially worthless.

Valve, either reduce the drop rate for crates, or start dropping keys.

They did, but they're about 4 times as common as hats, making them pretty damn rare.
Which sucks, but at least they're tradeable now.