Poll: Why the hate for X-men: Last Stand?...
- Thread starter MasterSteef
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It had many flaws, but I didn't hate it, not half as much as Spider Man 3 say. Phoenix was a hilarious non entity, she basically stood around doing nothing for the entire film.
But yeah, wasn't half as bad as Wolverine: Origin. Christ, what a mess.
But yeah, wasn't half as bad as Wolverine: Origin. Christ, what a mess.
Aaargh, I hate this film, mainly because I love the original comic.
A powerful story where Phoenix shows her power by consuming an entire world, defeated only due to her love of Scott and ultimatly kills herself by meteor after a huge battle on the moon.
They started with this story, then the actor who plays Scott was given a part in Superman, so the suits decide to kill him in act one.
After that undermining the entire point of the story they then have to go back to the drawing board and chuck the rest out, it is a truly awful film that destroys it's source. Only beaten by Highlander 2 in the trainwreck stakes.
If you have no idea what the original story was then you might like it, but it's far far short of what it should be.
A powerful story where Phoenix shows her power by consuming an entire world, defeated only due to her love of Scott and ultimatly kills herself by meteor after a huge battle on the moon.
They started with this story, then the actor who plays Scott was given a part in Superman, so the suits decide to kill him in act one.
After that undermining the entire point of the story they then have to go back to the drawing board and chuck the rest out, it is a truly awful film that destroys it's source. Only beaten by Highlander 2 in the trainwreck stakes.
If you have no idea what the original story was then you might like it, but it's far far short of what it should be.
I mean it was entertaining, but it was a bad movie. The main problem was the director, Brett Ratner. Oh god he is awful! Ugh so glad First Class was taken out of his hands.
Well Starwars did well did it not? And Harry Potter, and Pirates of the Carribean. And they are all good films.voorhees123 said:
OT: Heard it's good, so i will be seeing it
Although i'm easily pleased, and will see pretty much anything that looked good in the trailer, only after seeing the movie will i make a decision.
I was promised a war, not a handful of the dregs of mutantkind scrapping it out in (what looks like) a car-park. Kitty Pryde is actually an excellent character when she grows up. But now? No.
You could argue that she was put in there for the sake of drama because she's inexperienced. I'm fine with that.
You give me the cosmic force Phoenix, and she shakes a table, kills Cyclops (which is one of the redeeming qualities of that film) and dies from a stab wound.
Also, Vinnie Jones. He runs through some walls. X-3 almost felt like Street Fighter: The Movie, where they had a contract to fill a certain quota of mutants, so they kept chucking them into scenes with no real afterthought of how good those mutants could possibly be if they had lines/a role.
Think about Psylocke, Callisto, god maybe even Archangel (maybe).
The film basically just screams at you "look at how good I could have been! Look at all this stuff I'm ignoring!" and that's why I think everyone hates it. And Brett Ratner.
Just give me a film where Wolverine isn't the main character. By the time X-Men Origins: Wolverine came out, I was just calling it Wolverine 4.
You could argue that she was put in there for the sake of drama because she's inexperienced. I'm fine with that.
You give me the cosmic force Phoenix, and she shakes a table, kills Cyclops (which is one of the redeeming qualities of that film) and dies from a stab wound.
Also, Vinnie Jones. He runs through some walls. X-3 almost felt like Street Fighter: The Movie, where they had a contract to fill a certain quota of mutants, so they kept chucking them into scenes with no real afterthought of how good those mutants could possibly be if they had lines/a role.
Think about Psylocke, Callisto, god maybe even Archangel (maybe).
The film basically just screams at you "look at how good I could have been! Look at all this stuff I'm ignoring!" and that's why I think everyone hates it. And Brett Ratner.
Just give me a film where Wolverine isn't the main character. By the time X-Men Origins: Wolverine came out, I was just calling it Wolverine 4.
I want to see it! As for X3, it was very meh for me. I'm not a huge X-Men fan anyway but X3 wasn't that great.TimeLord said:
For me, X3 embodied everything that was wrong with the film franchise and very little of what was right. The overemphasis on Wolverine and Storm, the "killing" of Jean, Cyclops and Professor X, the downgrading of the Dark Phoenix saga, and the decision to make Multiple Man and Psylocke villains are just a few examples.MasterSteef said:
Also, the writers and (shudder) director didn't show the same love for the characters and the story that Singer and Co. showed with the first two films and clearly have demonstrated with First Class. The first review I read of X3 said (paraphrased) that they seemed to be trying to show that these characters can exist on screen instead of developing their character, and I found this to be very true. Some of Magneto's lines ("In Chess the pawns go first") are things he would never say and sound like Brett Ratner's attempt at sounding intellectual. The big "war" the movie promised is a 5-minute fight between a half dozen good guys, a few "supervillains" and a handful of soldiers.
None of the movies have done the X-men justice the way that The Dark Knight and Spiderman 2 did for their respective franchises, though I do thoroughly enjoy the attempt that is X2.
Oh yeah, I forgot something. Let's keep going!
In the comics, Rogue started out as a villain, long before she killed Ms. Marvel and absorbed her super-strength and flight. In all of the movies, she's shy and nearly always in need of being saved, and is never ever presented as tough. I know that concessions must be made and artistic license exercised in distilling half a century of story into a 2-hour film, but by the time X3 wrapped there were over 6 hours, plenty of time for Rogue to at least become an actual character and not just a teenager with a cute ass, let alone a superhero who can swing a sentinel around like a baseball bat. Which brings me to...
No Bolivar Trask up to this point, only Senator Kelly, and no sentinels even mentioned, but it's been made clear that members of government have for some time been up to no good when it comes to mutants. And the first and only time we see a Sentinel it's in a danger room sequence? Lame.
What's really unfortunate is that all 3 movies, with all their flaws, provided a solid background on which to proceed. Kitty and Colossus and Iceman had by all appearances become full time members, and Angel had been introduced. This made the climate ripe for the introduction of the Sentinels ("We had the blueprints, dammit, but we didn't know they were real!") and of Sinster and Apocalypse, the Morlocks, Psylocke ("We don't know who that other purple-haired ***** was, but Psylocke's British, and this is Psylocke), Bishop and Gambit.
Edit: Whoopse.
...which didn't and never will happen. A second reboot will have to take place now, since the first X-team is supposed to have been trained in the 60's (the 80's would have been a much better idea, though I'm still excited to see what Matthew Vaghn does for the X-men). So maybe in 10 years, which means that for characters like Psylocke and (the real) Rogue and Bishop to ever see the light of day it will probably be too late to have Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart or Kelsey Grammar involved.
EDIT: Bah, I give up, I'll spoiler this post because it's similar to the last one which didn't show up for some reason, no matter how many times I refreshed it. This is more a notice to the mods if they see this.
Well since The Escapist decided to swallow my last post whole, I'll semi-summarise:
- They hyped up a big war, and all we got was the dregs of mutantkind fighting in what looked like a backlot.
- They had the cosmic entity known as Phoenix, who destroys whole planets, and she rocked a few tables and killed Cyclops. Then she died from a stab wound. T_T
- It had all of these characters and did NOTHING with them. Callisto, Psylocke, Archangel and the like were all on screen for a grand total of twenty seconds. Probably less than that.
- Vinnie Jones. He ran through walls. "I'm the Juggernaut *****!". No you aren't vinnie. This is the Juggernaut:
- It screamed at you "look how good I could be! Look at all the stuff I have!" and it just disappointed everyone. All those characters, all that potential. A total waste. Spiderman 3 did the same thing.
- They hyped up a big war, and all we got was the dregs of mutantkind fighting in what looked like a backlot.
- They had the cosmic entity known as Phoenix, who destroys whole planets, and she rocked a few tables and killed Cyclops. Then she died from a stab wound. T_T
- It had all of these characters and did NOTHING with them. Callisto, Psylocke, Archangel and the like were all on screen for a grand total of twenty seconds. Probably less than that.
- Vinnie Jones. He ran through walls. "I'm the Juggernaut *****!". No you aren't vinnie. This is the Juggernaut:
- It screamed at you "look how good I could be! Look at all the stuff I have!" and it just disappointed everyone. All those characters, all that potential. A total waste. Spiderman 3 did the same thing.
Well I kinda gave up after X3, that movie was a pile. Plus the Wolverine movie was pretty stupid. So I've pretty much given up on the X-Men movies.
Harry Potter and Starwars are good examples of handling multiple characters well. In Starwars, many of them are aliens, or dressed in a specific way. The major male humans (Luke, Han and the Fetts) have drastically different outfits that stand out. The aliens are instantly recognizable, even if you don't remember the name. Nobody forgets JarJar. Harry Potter makes use of color coded for your convenience (especially early Potter) and it's clear from the get go who the main characters are. I think Dean and Seamus get 10 minutes of screentime each throughout the series, despite being Harry's roommates.arc1991 said:
The Starwars example also applies to the LotR series.
I agree with this. X3 tried to fit so much into the film and yet, it was whittled down to about an hour and a half. There was no time to expand an anything or give anything that was set up in the previous film any kind of meaningful conclusion. The Phoenix storyline felt shoehorned in, despite the fact that X2 wanted to go in that direction. Ratner made no attempt to make the film anything other than "good enough." On top of all that, the "Last Stand" that was being foreshadowed in the past two films was a piss poor little skirmish that felt as if it affected nothing. Oh, and that mutant cure? Made completely irrelevant at the end when Magneto appears to move the metal chess piece. It made the whole film pointless. The whole thing was just...incompetent.voorhees123 said:
Yet, it was still better than Wolverine. Holy shit, was that a bad movie. Thank God First Class appears to be really good.
Cyclops is one of my favorite X-Men, and always has been. The overemphasis on Wolverine annoyed the hell out of me. I never liked Wolverine, and generally feel that he doesn't belong on any team.
I enjoyed the movie, it was not better than the other two and I the only big problem I had was that they killed doctor X and Cyclops without any really valid reason
