Poll:Will recent musician's music be taught in the same as music by people like Mozart?

[aruseusx]

I am going to lose this to areusx, but nonetheless, I aint listened to anything post newsted, and perhaps I referred to original Metallica, in which Dave Mustane played.
Crap I've already lost to you.

I think Mustaine made it one of his points to be more technical than Metallica while beating them in success. Which explains why its so hard to learn Megadeth and easier to learn Metallica. (On all instruments, Peace Sells on bass is much harder than For Whom the Bell Tolls)

 

[Lexodus]

Title still not fixed. Should be 'Will Modern Music Be Taught In The Same Way As Music By People Like Mozart?' if anything.

 

[electric_warrior]

the beatles and bob dylan will be, definitely.

 

[aruseusx]

Trulio(spelling?) doesn't compare to Newsted in technicallity.

I'm going to hope that was a typo and you ment "doesn't compare to Cliff in technicallity".

Even then, I think you are wrong but not as wrong as if you really did mean Newsted.

Have you heard Rob in Infectious Grooves? All Newsted did was follow the guitar lines or pound straight 8ths.

OT: I study contemporary music and I've looked at a lot of bassists from the 70's, studied Tool songs for exams, played Acid Jazz and learnt about the history of music from the 50's.

So, unless you study classical music it is already happening.

I usually avoid anything that associates itself with groove after some bad musical experiences (Lamb of God, Machine Head).

Newsted is in Voivod now so I think that would say something about his technicallity level.

EDIT: When Newsted was in Metallica and they always gave him a lot of shit like restrict his bass playing, delete his tracks, etc.

 

[Peanut Butter]

Well with any luck all rappers, black or white, will be first against the wall when the revolution comes and have all their shitty 'music' erased from human consciousness till the end of time.

I think most reasonable people tend to scoff at such perilous attitudes, given the broad nature of most music genres.

Jazz was, after all, viewed the same by most academics and even some of the older population, back in the day.

yes but jazz is actually music, i honestly dont believe that modern day rappers can be classed as musicians because they do not sing or have any musical talent

 

[zen5887]

Trulio(spelling?) doesn't compare to Newsted in technicallity.

I'm going to hope that was a typo and you ment "doesn't compare to Cliff in technicallity".

Even then, I think you are wrong but not as wrong as if you really did mean Newsted.

Have you heard Rob in Infectious Grooves? All Newsted did was follow the guitar lines or pound straight 8ths.

OT: I study contemporary music and I've looked at a lot of bassists from the 70's, studied Tool songs for exams, played Acid Jazz and learnt about the history of music from the 50's.

So, unless you study classical music it is already happening.

I usually avoid anything that associates itself with groove after some bad musical experiences (Lamb of God, Machine Head).

Newsted is in Voivod now so I think that would say something about his technicallity level.

EDIT: When Newsted was in Metallica and they always gave him a lot of shit like restrict his bass playing, delete his tracks, etc.

I've never heard the word 'groove' in the same sentence as Lamb of God or Machine Head unless its accompanied with the words "have no"

Rob is basically a funk player who currently plays Metal. Seriously, Jason has nothing on him - Creatively or technically.

 

[Straz]

So you... like megadeth?
If I could be bothered working out how to do italics, there would certainly be some there.
And it is true that Metallica gave Newsted alot of shit.
Maybe they were pissed at him for not being Cliff?

 

[aruseusx]

Trulio(spelling?) doesn't compare to Newsted in technicallity.

I'm going to hope that was a typo and you ment "doesn't compare to Cliff in technicallity".

Even then, I think you are wrong but not as wrong as if you really did mean Newsted.

Have you heard Rob in Infectious Grooves? All Newsted did was follow the guitar lines or pound straight 8ths.

OT: I study contemporary music and I've looked at a lot of bassists from the 70's, studied Tool songs for exams, played Acid Jazz and learnt about the history of music from the 50's.

So, unless you study classical music it is already happening.

I usually avoid anything that associates itself with groove after some bad musical experiences (Lamb of God, Machine Head).

Newsted is in Voivod now so I think that would say something about his technicallity level.

EDIT: When Newsted was in Metallica and they always gave him a lot of shit like restrict his bass playing, delete his tracks, etc.

I've never heard the word 'groove' in the same sentence as Lamb of God or Machine Head unless its accompanied with the words "have no"

Rob is basically a funk player who currently plays Metal. Seriously, Jason has nothing on him - Creatively or technically.

Lamb of God and Machine Head are "groove metal." It can be done well (mellow Pantera, Exhorder) but mostly it's shit.

At least we aren't arguing that Rob is better than Jason because he uses his fingers and not a pick. I'll give infectious grooves a listen.

 

[Tribar42]

What? What do you mean by taught? Like, their actual music being taught to musicians playing specific instruments, as they do with orchestras? Or do you mean that their music will be studied in the social sciences? Because the latter is happening already. I'm fairly certain the former happens too, just in private classes.

I'm talking about the first of the two you said in but more like public school instead of private and really wide spread like Mozart.

 

[Plurralbles]

Somethig your'e not seeing is that there is an insurmountable difference between Mozart and some common shitty metal band(in comparison). The difference is mozart wrote for an entire orchestra or piano and bands today have... bleh, five guys with drumbs and guitars. Anyway, more likely people that write those epic scores in movies will get it if any at all.

 

[damselgaming]

My guitar teacher taught me contemporary stuff anyway, and he was the spitting image of Tony Iommi. I mean the first real piece I learnt, that wasn't scales, theory related or 'Ode to Joy' was Parisienne Walkways. I miss my guitar lessons...

 

[Chewster]

Well with any luck all rappers, black or white, will be first against the wall when the revolution comes and have all their shitty 'music' erased from human consciousness till the end of time.

I think most reasonable people tend to scoff at such perilous attitudes, given the broad nature of most music genres.

Jazz was, after all, viewed the same by most academics and even some of the older population, back in the day.

yes but jazz is actually music, i honestly dont believe that modern day rappers can be classed as musicians because they do not sing or have any musical talent

I suppose if we were operating on a more narrow definition of what "music" is, you'd have a point. How do you define what a "musician" is? Keep in mind, I'm not asking for a definition that involves a value judgment or anything, just the basic outline.

In any case, I maintain that it is rather shortsighted of you to discount all rap/hip hop, seeing as how you're talking about a whole genre, with many variations and intricate complexities. At what point do you draw the line? Is K-os a musician? He makes hip-hop albums, but his style of rap tends to be more melodic in nature. What about MIA? She is much the same. To take another example that often gets lumped in with rap, is electronic music not music either? That genre is just as wide, and often contains very little singing, depending on the sub-genre. At what point do you make the distinction between "music" and "noise"?

If this is the case, that rap and hip hop are not music, then Bob Dylan isn't a singer, since he couldn't sing worth anything. Beck isn't a musician either, since he never sings.

 

[zen5887]

Lamb of God and Machine Head are "groove metal." It can be done well (mellow Pantera, Exhorder) but mostly it's shit.

At least we aren't arguing that Rob is better than Jason because he uses his fingers and not a pick. I'll give infectious grooves a listen.

I've heard of groove metal, but I wouldn't lump Lamb and Machine in with them. Not at all.

Haha I was thinking of being all like "Plus, Rob uses his fingers" but then I thought "Wait.. That's stupid!"

 

[The Rockerfly]

No, music today is simplistic in style, and as an instrument the guitar is limited in range.

I disagree actually, if anything the guitar has too much range hat very few people have a clear idea of what to do with it. I think the main reason why music is so simplistic today is that bands don't have enough members playing accompaniment parts. It's why alot of music sounds very hollow, especially without bass.

 

[KnowYourOnion]

No, music today is simplistic in style, and as an instrument the guitar is limited in range.

]

No that's just wrong, A guitar has a fairly expansive range, A 24 fret guitar has a 5 octaves(not a small range by any definition seeing as a piano only has 2 more)as well as a great deal of tones depending on the pick-ups and wood. It can be used in practically any kind of music.

Besides not all music today is simplistic that's way to general, go and listen to This Town Needs Guns-26 is dancier than 4 and tell me that's a simplistic composition.

Edit: Dammit ninja'd

 

[aruseusx]

Lamb of God and Machine Head are "groove metal." It can be done well (mellow Pantera, Exhorder) but mostly it's shit.

At least we aren't arguing that Rob is better than Jason because he uses his fingers and not a pick. I'll give infectious grooves a listen.

I've heard of groove metal, but I wouldn't lump Lamb and Machine in with them. Not at all.

Haha I was thinking of being all like "Plus, Rob uses his fingers" but then I thought "Wait.. That's stupid!"

Depends what kind of groove your thinking of. Groove metal is a form of post-thrash metal. LOG combines groove metal with death metal and metalcore, hence why they sound so annoying. The riff is supposed to sound heavy without downtuning the guitars as something like that. (Pantera did it well)

 

[Peanut Butter]

Well with any luck all rappers, black or white, will be first against the wall when the revolution comes and have all their shitty 'music' erased from human consciousness till the end of time.

I think most reasonable people tend to scoff at such perilous attitudes, given the broad nature of most music genres.

Jazz was, after all, viewed the same by most academics and even some of the older population, back in the day.

yes but jazz is actually music, i honestly dont believe that modern day rappers can be classed as musicians because they do not sing or have any musical talent

I suppose if we were operating on a more narrow definition of what "music" is, you'd have a point. How do you define what a "musician" is? Keep in mind, I'm not asking for a definition that involves a value judgment or anything, just the basic outline.

In any case, I maintain that it is rather shortsighted of you to discount all rap/hip hop, seeing as how you're talking about a whole genre, with many variations and intricate complexities. At what point do you draw the line? Is K-os a musician? He makes hip-hop albums, but his style of rap tends to be more melodic in nature. What about MIA? She is much the same. To take another example that often gets lumped in with rap, is electronic music not music either? That genre is just as wide, and often contains very little singing, depending on the sub-genre. At what point do you make the distinction between "music" and "noise"?

If this is the case, that rap and hip hop are not music, then Bob Dylan isn't a singer, since he couldn't sing worth anything. Beck isn't a musician either, since he never sings.

I could agree with that yes, im not sure but didnt bob dylan write the lyrics and music though? Making him a talented muician regardless of a lack of singing talent due to his strong lyrcial value. As for Beck i dont know who that is.... My point is mainly directed against the kind of current generation thinking that labels people who get up on stage and talk about 'pimping up their cars' or 'bitching them hoes' (not racist, white people do it too) to a beat and are deemed to be worthy musicians. This is just my opinon though i suppose, the sheer ammount of fans these people have is somewhat saddening i feel..

 

[Kyber]

Tom Morello is better than Mozart

 

[TheReactorSings]

Well, I can't see anyone dedicating their entire academic careers to the study of Metallica's oeuvre; publishing books about the development of themes in "Enter Sandman" or such. (I remember encountering a hefty tome dedicated to a study of Beethoven's handwriting in his various sketches for the op. 131 string quartet, or something like that.)

It may be a mildly reactionary thing to say (and I'm a big pop/rock fan), but there is relatively little in the work of pop musicians that lends itself to traditional musicological study...of course, you can still learn about individual songs and musical styles. Hell, maybe all that musicological business was a waste of time, anyway.

 

[TheReactorSings]

Tom Morello is better than Mozart

He's certainly mastered the hammer-on/pull-off. Props, Tom!