I've seen people in bad relationships that they don't seem to want to leave but I doubt the jerk in the relationship started out that way.
Poll: Women like jerks?
- Thread starter Erttheking
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I don't know that I'd look to Anime for relationship advice but I would also caution that sleeping with women and having a relationship aren't the same thing. If all a guy cares about is getting laid he can use some tricks to pick on emotional insecurities that all people have and weasel his way in.inu-kun said:
There's nothing wrong with wanting to get laid either, but there are some pretty nasty ways to go about it.
Perhaps surprisingly, my fedora appreciation didn't start until I had long stopped being the stereotype it's associated with. I am still a nerd who wears a fedora at the end of the day. I'm just a successful nerd who's good with people. Didn't stop me from buying my wife one of those body pillows. Instead of having an anime girl on it, it had a neckbeard in a fedora. For the lulz.ravenshrike said:
So... Reinforce my supposition, or get called out as a misogynistic idiot? That sounds fair.
Yes. Below a certain age or level of experience, women do often connect with jerks. And I'm not talking about wahh wahh that girl never gave me a chance (thank you for that delightful assumption); I'm talking about my mother, whose first husband abandoned her and her daughter, leaving them with a bunch of gambling debts, and was granted an anulment by the Catholic Church; I'm talking about my sister who sobbed for her mother to take the call from the boy who took her virginity and tell him to leave her alone; I'm talking about my other sister whose first serious boyfriend had begun the habits that would turn him into a useless, burned out drug addict by the time he was in his twenties.
And before anyone gets the idea to call out the "stupid" women in my family as exceptions, I'll point out that all three of these women earned doctorates in their particular fields.
Oh, you can't find a woman who will tell you she's attracted to jerks? Well, it's a good thing we're all such perfect judges of our own actions and preferences.
Your experiences differ? Well, as we've seen, personal experience is a great reason to invalidate anyone else's experiences.
Am I a little short about this subject? Yes, I'm sick and tired of watching people assume the fact that they can pat themselves on the back and get validation for their assumptions mean they're inherently correct in those assumptions; in this particular case, my experiences suggest not only that it shies from the truth but it enables normalizing a whole set of assumptions that are misandric, destructive, and prevent anything like an honest conversation.
Yes. Below a certain age or level of experience, women do often connect with jerks. And I'm not talking about wahh wahh that girl never gave me a chance (thank you for that delightful assumption); I'm talking about my mother, whose first husband abandoned her and her daughter, leaving them with a bunch of gambling debts, and was granted an anulment by the Catholic Church; I'm talking about my sister who sobbed for her mother to take the call from the boy who took her virginity and tell him to leave her alone; I'm talking about my other sister whose first serious boyfriend had begun the habits that would turn him into a useless, burned out drug addict by the time he was in his twenties.
And before anyone gets the idea to call out the "stupid" women in my family as exceptions, I'll point out that all three of these women earned doctorates in their particular fields.
Oh, you can't find a woman who will tell you she's attracted to jerks? Well, it's a good thing we're all such perfect judges of our own actions and preferences.
Your experiences differ? Well, as we've seen, personal experience is a great reason to invalidate anyone else's experiences.
Am I a little short about this subject? Yes, I'm sick and tired of watching people assume the fact that they can pat themselves on the back and get validation for their assumptions mean they're inherently correct in those assumptions; in this particular case, my experiences suggest not only that it shies from the truth but it enables normalizing a whole set of assumptions that are misandric, destructive, and prevent anything like an honest conversation.
Considering that in Naruto the hero was a loud mouthed idiot and in Avatar the "bad boy" turned out to be a good guy in the end who dropped most of his stereotypical bad boy attributes I'm not sure how this proves anything. You can't really judge what people look for a person in real life based on what they like in fictional characters. If you could I'd be steering clear of anyone who likes Tsunderes or psychopathic characters. In fact fiction has a very fantasy aspect to it, where you enjoy things you'd never enjoy in the real world. I enjoy war games but in a real life warzone I'd break down in two seconds.inu-kun said:
The one thing a man cannot be, if he wants to get a girl interested, is boring. If a man is boring, women don't care about him. That's why women love men who have confidence so much. They're go getters, they're active, with dreams and actually taking the steps to achieve those dreams. Unfortunately, it's a very blurry line between assholes and confidence, so it looks like women only date jerks, but really the qualities they're most looking for just happen to be shared by jerks.
Randomly chides a forum full of people for their presumed opinions.Callate said:
Supplies anecdotal, personal, emotionally charged evidence for why their presumed opinions are "wrong".
Submits a spiel about people assuming that they are "inherently correct in their assumptions", whilst making assumptions himself.
Sneers at the suggestion that making blanket accusations about women could be construed as misogynist, ends post with a diatribe about misandry.
I think that about sums it up.
Mate, I'm sorry for what the women in your family have been through and how that has shaped your view of relationships, but you appear to have a chip on your shoulder the size of Texas.
If I'm going to make a generalization, my theory would be more along the lines that women may have a tendency to date people who might not be that honest or respectful. I think women can easily fall into the trap of forming these absurd romantic fantasies that they expect men to fulfill, and that certain men will use this fantasy to manipulate women, with a certain degree of success. I think when men act extremely out of place with this fantasy is a huge turn-off, which might be why guys who don't act like the guys in romantic movies, E.G. those just trying to be themselves and not being manipulative, end up not being romantically interesting.
Women might also enjoy "the chase", and will want a guy who will peruse them; Naturally, this could attract the worst kind of rapey dudes, since this alienates guys who would respect a women's space or choices, so there's some natural cohesion there. Socially, we're still in the fucked-up place where it's expected for a man to ask out a women, and never the other way around, also giving and edge to the rapey, abusive people. Not saying that all confident guys are rapists, only that rapists tend to be overly-confident, or at least would generally be more up for the chase than other guys. I think this hunter/prey dynamic that's so deeply ingrained in society might be the biggest part of it.
I also think that women have a tendency to compartmentalize people. If a woman puts a man in a role in her head, it's very hard to escape that role. I don't think it's limited to 'friend' or 'romantic interest', but also other things i imagine like 'that guy whose good at schoolwork who i can ask for help' or 'that creepy guy' or something. I do think that overall men are more lenient with people moving through these rolls, and taking on multiple roles, and women like to keep people in their original role with little chance for redemption, mobility, or overlap.
EDIT:
Oh, yes, as others have mentioned, it would not surprise me if the whole "i can change him" fantasy played a part.
Women might also enjoy "the chase", and will want a guy who will peruse them; Naturally, this could attract the worst kind of rapey dudes, since this alienates guys who would respect a women's space or choices, so there's some natural cohesion there. Socially, we're still in the fucked-up place where it's expected for a man to ask out a women, and never the other way around, also giving and edge to the rapey, abusive people. Not saying that all confident guys are rapists, only that rapists tend to be overly-confident, or at least would generally be more up for the chase than other guys. I think this hunter/prey dynamic that's so deeply ingrained in society might be the biggest part of it.
I also think that women have a tendency to compartmentalize people. If a woman puts a man in a role in her head, it's very hard to escape that role. I don't think it's limited to 'friend' or 'romantic interest', but also other things i imagine like 'that guy whose good at schoolwork who i can ask for help' or 'that creepy guy' or something. I do think that overall men are more lenient with people moving through these rolls, and taking on multiple roles, and women like to keep people in their original role with little chance for redemption, mobility, or overlap.
EDIT:
Oh, yes, as others have mentioned, it would not surprise me if the whole "i can change him" fantasy played a part.
To be fair, submitting Anime characters as evidence of what women want in relationships was so spectacular that king's post was about the gentlest response possible.Redryhno said:
Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if there wasn't atleast some truth to them. Ofcourse it would be ridiculous to generalize that all women like jerks. But some definitely do. Now not that these women are necessarily into 'jerks' but rather that they are willing to put up with a lot of shit just b/c they find the jerk particularly attractive or popular or have the naive belief her 'love' will somehow change him. For most women it's just a phase though like boybands and horses. I mean, it gets particularly pathetic after 30.
I'll add most guys aren't really that much better though. Most of us secretly(or not so secretly) desire the prettiest girl. When guys are frustrated and say 'all women like jerks' they aren't hinting at the 300 pound whale that wouldn't reject them.
I'll add most guys aren't really that much better though. Most of us secretly(or not so secretly) desire the prettiest girl. When guys are frustrated and say 'all women like jerks' they aren't hinting at the 300 pound whale that wouldn't reject them.
To be fair, whenever this topic comes up, there are a LOT of people who jump right to the "only virgin loosers would make this argument" ad hominem argument. That argument is bullshit, fallacious, and not fair, 100%. That's like saying "oh, you want bullying in schools to stop, you must be one of the loosers who got bullied, and thus somehow your argument and points are invalid". It's just degenerate shaming tactics, and it would be nice if we could be above that.BloatedGuppy said:
And to be equally fair, the majority of the kids that REALLY like said characters aren't really that hard to guess also liking jerks as romantic partners. It's sorta a dual age/affluence thing more than anything else and I wouldn't say it's that bad of a starting point honestly.BloatedGuppy said:
And this is also like the fourth time I've seen Er put this thread up in the last two years, sorta getting sick of it is all.
Well, not that many, reviewing the thread. A few remarks are rather pointed, but nothing like what you've paraphrased here.9tailedflame said:
Secondly, just making generalized insults isn't "ad hom". Ad hominem means undermining someone's position by attacking them, usually in an attempt to destroy their credibility. "You can't listen to 9tailedflame's views on health care, he's a lunatic" would be an ad hominem attack. Simply saying something like "Everyone who listens to Nickelback is a cretin" isn't an ad hominem, it's just being mean.
Thirdly, making generalizations about any population, particularly ~50% of the global population, is a pretty lame thing to do, and it's a position that merits a certain amount of censure. How hostile the tone taken up will likely depend on how sick the individual in question is of hearing the generalization in question. If we're going to be forgiving of Callate sounding off out of frustration, which you clearly are, it would be appropriate to extend the same consideration to the "degenerate shaming" you're clearly irate about.
Well give him credit, he obviously knows his audience. =\Redryhno said:
Perspective perspective perspective!
If you are interested in a Woman then automatically any other guy interested in her is a jerk. There is very little chance you're going to see any positive qualities in these fellows and instead you will focus entirely on their negatives. Fairly standard human behaviour.
If you are interested in a Woman then automatically any other guy interested in her is a jerk. There is very little chance you're going to see any positive qualities in these fellows and instead you will focus entirely on their negatives. Fairly standard human behaviour.
I keep typing up responses to people thinking "i'll just make this brief" only to have it go for several paragraphs and still feeling like there is more to be said.
Fuck it, I ain't poking this bear. Bloatedguppy is here and I'm usually in sync with what he's saying but he makes it far more entertaining to read then I ever could, I'll just be boringly redundant.
I'll just say this... it's far easier to make sound judgement calls as an uninvested third party with hindsight, much less so when it's personal and your neck deep in it. Pesky things like human nature, emotions, peer pressure and hormones (we all have em') tend really muddle things up as well.
Also, to fully flay this dead horse, mayhaps the "jerk" is a psychological projection of your own insecurities.
Note: "you" in general sense, not anyone here specifically.
captcha: outlook good
I don't know captcha:
Fuck it, I ain't poking this bear. Bloatedguppy is here and I'm usually in sync with what he's saying but he makes it far more entertaining to read then I ever could, I'll just be boringly redundant.
I'll just say this... it's far easier to make sound judgement calls as an uninvested third party with hindsight, much less so when it's personal and your neck deep in it. Pesky things like human nature, emotions, peer pressure and hormones (we all have em') tend really muddle things up as well.
Also, to fully flay this dead horse, mayhaps the "jerk" is a psychological projection of your own insecurities.
Note: "you" in general sense, not anyone here specifically.
captcha: outlook good
I don't know captcha: