Poll: World War 1 and 2 - who did more for the French?

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UsefulPlayer 1

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I would say the Americans did the most during WWII, which is to say they did most of the heavy lifting during the liberation of France compared to the others.

I believe this to be so, because, I think, if the Americans had not contributed to the invasion, Britain may have concentrated protecting their borders or whatever invasion they mounted, with the other countries, wouldn't be as successful.

Then Russia probably would have steamrolled into the west and I don't think anyone wanted that.
 

Rolling Thunder

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UsefulPlayer 1 said:
I would say the Americans did the most during WWII, which is to say they did most of the heavy lifting during the liberation of France compared to the others.

I believe this to be so, because, I think, if the Americans had not contributed to the invasion, Britain may have concentrated protecting their borders or whatever invasion they mounted, with the other countries, wouldn't be as successful.

Then Russia probably would have steamrolled into the west and I don't think anyone wanted that.
Not really, as without America, German industry would have been considerably more advanced, and Nazi Germany would probably still survive till today.
 

Superbeast

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Jan 7, 2009
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clicketycrack said:
Probably UK but I'm gonna go with America because we rock.

OH SAY CAN YOU SEEEEEE!
And this is why polls fail.

Bingo, I doubt the Allies would have won WWI & WWII without millions of tones of US supply's.

As for WWII, US war supply's(AIRCRAFT, fuel, medical, ammunition...) saved the U.K. from a German invasion. Not to mention the US Army/National Guard took the brunt of the casualties at Normandy.
The supplies where what was really important - less so in WW1 (because there was no action-of-consequence on British soil from the German airforce, and the Royal Navy was far superior to the German one) so our production was unhindered (and we had our own Empire to get help from too); but it was pretty important in WW2.

The Normandy part I disagree on:

The majority of troops who landed on the D-Day beaches were from the United Kingdom, Canada and the US. However, troops from many other countries participated in D-Day and the Battle of Normandy, in all the different armed services: Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland. - quoting the DDay museum website.

Americans suffered the most casualties but that's because on Omaha beach the amphibious tanks failed to arrive (the tanks aimed for a single point on the clifftops but didn't account for the tide, eventually they turned too far into the waves [being pushed sideways whilst focusing on a fixed location will do this] and were swamped by the swell and thus sank) which meant the beaches were unshelled (no cover for troops) and the machine-gun posts hadn't been taken out. It's reasons like these that you cannot use casualty numbers for comparison (because it was an American cock-up that led to the tanks failing which meant more American infantry died, not tougher opposition or greater beach defences). The forces landing other beaches that had tank support (even the other American one, Utah beach) suffered far less casualties.

Britain did more in WW1 I think but USA put a LOT of manpower into it in WW2. My history isn't that good so if I'm missing something the Americans did in WW1 that was massive please tell me.
I'll correct you then :) (whoops, sorry, misunderstood your post - I thought you meant more manpower than other allies, I realise you now meant more manpower than WW1 - which is correct - but the other nations put more manpower into WW2 than US did as it happens - I shall elaborate as I can't be bothered to delete what I had already typed)

The US had just under half of the troops landing in the Normandy campaign (73,000 of 156,000) and there is all the pre-Normandy (and pre-US involvement in the war) fighting that involved a lot of British, and French, troops (ie the British Expeditionary Force which needed to be evacuated at Dunkirk) - and there's the actual initial invasion too which caused a lot of casualties in Poland, Belgium and Holland.

America's main contribution to the war (WWII) was in terms of supplies to Europe and fighting in the Pacific thatre - the numbers of US troops involved in Europe are quite small - at least in relation to what was used against Japan (just like the number of Allied forces in the Pacific - I'm thinking the Brits in Burmha for this comparisson).
 

Del-Toro

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Cpt_Oblivious said:
I say the Commonwealth [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations]. Britain can't take all the credit.
No, America, that does not include you.
Yeah, the brits really can't, the only reason they do is because colonial troops like Canada, Australia, New Zealand ect. are usually under the British umbrella, so in other words commonwealth is much more accurate.
 

HerrBobo

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Furburt said:
I like the way Ireland is up there for some reason, our position in the war was to sit down with our fingers in our ears going 'la-la-la'.
What?!

Go learn some history mate. c.400,000 Irish men fought in WW1&2. About 200,000 per war. Out of a population of c.3.5 million I would say we did our fair share.

It is an intresting question that the OP had.

WW1: You have to acknowledge that Britian was right there from the start fighting with France. Took all the punishment right along side with her ally, and no doubt had the finest Army in Europe in 1914, pity it was so small. The BEF no doubt helped France from being defeated by the Germans in 1914. However, many scholars, including myself, belive that if Russia had not made such good gains into Prussia in 1914 the Germans would not have redirected so many men away from the Westren Front to the Eastren one. I reckon that if this had not happend France, and the BEF, would have been over run in 1914. So, at least some credit must go to Russia. With out going into detail this is the same for all ailled Nations in Europe; Italy, ect.

While the BEF was good enough to help the French check the German advance they did not have the power to totally defeat them. This is where the US comes into it. It took there men and wepons to totally defeat the Germans in 1918, even more so one one considers the new influx of German troops there was after Russia's defeat in 1917.

WW2: Again Britian must be acknowledge for thr long haul. However there is no way she would have carried on the fight were it not for the aid from the US. Also, Russia's defeat of so much of the German armies resources must be considerd.

For that question who one WW2 I have come up with an answer; "The US funded the victory, but Russia paid for it."

For all that, I vote "other."

That was a bit short but I gotta go to work!
 
Jun 8, 2009
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Britain on the first occasion. We didn't need to get involved in the First world war and we still saved their asses. If the British Expeditionary Force hadn't slowed the Germans down the French would've failed to stop the Germans and Germany would have won. However, the joining of the Americans saved countless British and French lives and shortened the war considerably. They do owe the Americans a debt there, but it is important to remember that the Americans entered the war for their own reasons, not because they wanted to help Britain or France particularly. If I remember, they entered the war because Germany was sinking their shipping. If you ask me, the Americans would have been wiser to stay out and make a fortune off the loans to the various parties. I can't really say that either of the sides deserved to win, Frances president turned out to be a real bastard towards Germany and America could have claimed the moral high ground and stayed the hell out of a needless fight, like Switzerland. You can partially blame Clemenceau for the second world war. Germany should have been left alone, not bombarded with reparations. Contrary to (not so now) popular belief, Germany did not start the war, you can blame the Russians for that when they attacked Serbia instead of leaving the matter to the Austrians. The Russians did not have an alliance with Serbia, they attacked just to protect their sphere of influence. The Germans, on the other hand, did have an alliance with Austria, and mobilised accordingly. France had an alliance with Russia, and Germany knew this, so they naturally struck at the smaller country first in the hopes of knocking it out the war quickly. Of course, this back-fired.

On the second, I'd say both the common-wealth and America. Not only did commonwealth forces hold the line both in Europe and in North Africa, reducing the Germans western offensives to the point of mop-up, but they also did a lot to help reduce the air-power of Germany. Commonwealth efforts paved the way for the liberation of Europe while everyone elses efforts bar Russia's were failing... but admittedly that was just self defence, though Churchill clearly had ideas for retaking Europe. The common-wealth would also never have managed to defeat nazism on their own, though I still think that the Germans were on their way out and could've been defeated without America. The best they could've hoped for was to drive the Nazi's out of France. Russia would've gained more ground, probably taking the whole of Germany and even part of France. So ultimately, I'd say America takes the credit of ultimately being Frances liberator, while the common-wealth and Russia takes the majority of the credit for stemming the tide and halting Germany's advance. I also have a much more positive view of the Americans involvement in the second world war. They genuinely seem to have made that rare thing in world events, a selfless decision to help us and to stop Germany from taking over Europe, and Europe owes them a great deal for that. That does not mean, however, that Europe has to follow everything the USA says. The best friends will tell you when you are wrong.

I have an incredibly low opinion of Russia's, or should I say, Stalins involvement in the war. They just seized as much land as they could, as violently as possible. That is more a comment on Russia's leadership at that time than on Russia itself though...

Of course, they were all a bunch of cynical, ruthless bastards in the end. Allied forces bombed German cities into rubble, while the less said about the Russian atrocities the better. The allied forces in the west were at least more merciful than their German and Russian counterparts (or maybe just more disciplined when it came to treating civilians and captives), but it is important to remember that all parties in that war were incredibly ruthless and thought little of killing civilians on a massive scale. The horror after that is the reason we have the EU, no one wants to go through that again. No one.

You may think from this post I'm cynical. I'm not, I just seemed to have picked up a depressingly bleak view of history and why things happened. Humans are nice. Nations are bastards, particularly towards their neighbours. If we just abolished armies and borders and had a really effective police force and democratic government, the world would be a much safer place... until aliens invade or a dictator takes over that is...