Poll: Would the world be a better place without religion?

[The Iron Ninja]

It's hard to argue with you, since history has been shaped by culture that spawned ultimately from beleif. I just wish it was possible to see the outcome of a world without religion. But in the absense of religion, humans will just start worshiping anything they see. It's part of who we are I guess.

No, it's not. I was never pushed to believe in anything of any kind in my formative years and I grew up as best as I could and never felt a void I needed to feel with anything. I don't think people would just start worshiping stuff just like that in this day and age.

I'm not talking about this day and age. We wouldn't have this day and age the way it is now without Religion, it grouped people together, it placed kings in positions of power, it had a major effect of any form of art you care to name.

For the record I'm an athiest and myself would do away with religion in the modern world right now if it was possible.

 

[Ares Tyr]

What about cave paintings? I thought that would be the basis for art. To be fair Religion would have propelled all those things forward. But I doubt they wouldn't happen in the absense of it

Cave paintings were actually an early way for people to communicate a message through pictures (pictographs, more or less). They depicted hunting and other survival skills. It was more of a practical thing than just paintng pictures because they look nice.

But also, Cavemen were far more superstitious than even the most religious people, so to say they were thinking logically the whole time would be wrong. Where do you think the term "fire worshipper" comes from?

It's hard to argue with you, since history has been shaped by culture that spawned ultimately from beleif. I just wish it was possible to see the outcome of a world without religion. But in the absense of religion, humans will just start worshiping anything they see. It's part of who we are I guess.

Yes, it would be an interesting thing to see.

But really, religion has always a been a way for human beings to answer the questions of "who, what, why" and all those. We didn't have to knowledge to understand why things existed, how things got here to begin with, why they were there, and why things behaved the way they did. We had Gods of fire and lightning and wind because we didn't understand what made them, or what caused them. So we rationalized that it was supernatural beings. God created the Earth and humans they believed (and still do) in seven days and had a Garden where things were good before we messed up and that's why things are bad. We use religion to explain things to us that we can't comprehend.

And most importantly, we use religion to explain our very existance. And while we have explained alot of things, like how the Earth works, how biology, chemistry, and other things work. We've even managed to answer how we got here to some extent.

But what we have yet to explain is the existance of the universe (and laws of the universe) itself and why we as humans do things that defy our logicaly based survival skills. And that's why I believe in what I believe in.

And I'm fairly certain that if we didn't currently have logical scientific explanations for things, most of the people who claim atheism would be fervant believers in Zeus or Odin.

 

[The Iron Ninja]

Seriously Ares, I'm not sure if it's a common typo of yours or not but it's spelt Odin.

But yes, Religion was a good temporary fill in for science. But right now those aspects of religion could be done away with. Beleif in what is still unknown (death, reincarnation and all that) is all well and good. Though I myself have no need of it.

 

[meatloaf231]

Seriously Ares, I'm not sure if it's a common typo of yours or not but it's spelt Odin.

But yes, Religion was a good temporary fill in for science. But right now those aspects of religion could be done away with. Beleif in what is still unknown (death, reincarnation and all that) is all well and good. Though I myself have no need of it.

The thing is, religion does more harm than good. Think of all the discrimination, wars, laws, etc. that have come of it. I'm not saying that there aren't good things about religion, I just mean that without it the world would have developed very differently. Then again, humans being humans and all, we would have found some other thing to kill each other over. So basically religion is a neutral catalyst.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Well, if it wasn't for Religion, we really wouldn't have architecture, writing etc.

And if you just stop false idols, then you get false pop idols.

 

[Ares Tyr]

Seriously Ares, I'm not sure if it's a common typo of yours or not but it's spelt Odin.

But yes, Religion was a good temporary fill in for science. But right now those aspects of religion could be done away with. Beleif in what is still unknown (death, reincarnation and all that) is all well and good. Though I myself have no need of it.

I've seen it spelt both ways, but I'll use Odin so you won't complain anymore.

Since I believe in the soul and spiritual energies, I only use reincarnation and karma as the most logical way of explaining what occurs with that soul once the body dies.

But I primarily use religion to explain the questions that just can't be answered. Like the existance of the universe to begin with and the artistic expression of human emotion (and what I would call soul). I'm a very analytical person, and I like to question everything as deeply as possible. I believe in evolution and the Big Bang and all that, as I've stated in past threads, so religion is definetly not a way for me to just avoid deeper reasoning.

An interesting side note, without Norse religion, we would not have a name for the days of the week. And without Greek mythology and other religions, the English language would be a much duller one.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The thing is, religion does more harm than good. Think of all the discrimination, wars, laws, etc. that have come of it.

You seem to be mistaking Religion for Fundamentalism.
I don't believe any Religion categorically states that people should be murdered or discriminated against. Even Satanism.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

As for the Big Bang...

You believe in an astronomical event that happened at the start of time, though there isn't a start to time or a measuring system that works for either time or distance at that point; that there is no logical or scientific basis behind or during or after...

But a big bearded bloke in the sky is tosh?

 

[The Iron Ninja]

Without Norse religion, we would not have a name for the days of the week. And without Greek mythology and other religions, the English language would be a much duller one.

Except for Sunday and Saturday (my favourite days)

Besides I think what I would miss most would be the sheer awesomeness of the Norse pantheon itself and their accompanying stories.
Smiting someone for building a tower too high? Meh.
Travelling to the land of the giants and having a drinking competition? Fucking awesome.

 

[meatloaf231]

The thing is, religion does more harm than good. Think of all the discrimination, wars, laws, etc. that have come of it.

You seem to be mistaking Religion for Fundamentalism.
I don't believe any Religion categorically states that people should be murdered or discriminated against. Even Satanism.

Yeah, but religion itself allows for these things to happen. Look at crusades, for goodness sake.

 

[Ares Tyr]

Without Norse religion, we would not have a name for the days of the week. And without Greek mythology and other religions, the English language would be a much duller one.

Except for Sunday and Saturday (my favourite days)

Besides I think what I would miss most would be the sheer awesomeness of the Norse pantheon itself and their accompanying stories.
Smiting someone for building a tower too high? Meh.
Travelling to the land of the giants and having a drinking competition? Fucking awesome.

I must agree. Human identity would be alot more boring without stories of a bunch of horny, drunken Gods boning everything and screwing with people whenever they get bored.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Except for Sunday and Saturday (my favourite days)

Saturnus :: The Greek God equivalent to Kronos and Sunna : Germanic God of the Sun?

 

[Ares Tyr]

The thing is, religion does more harm than good. Think of all the discrimination, wars, laws, etc. that have come of it.

You seem to be mistaking Religion for Fundamentalism.
I don't believe any Religion categorically states that people should be murdered or discriminated against. Even Satanism.

Yeah, but religion itself allows for these things to happen. Look at crusades, for goodness sake.

The Crusades also served the purpose of owning a very large and valuable piece of real estate, domain over the many residents, and all the wealth found in the cities in that area. There were alterior motives for sure. Religion just gave the common man a reason to get behind and back the war.

 

[The Iron Ninja]

Yeah, but religion itself allows for these things to happen. Look at crusades, for goodness sake.

Religion is just one of the many causes for conflict. Wars are always about a difference in views, whether it's who owns what or whether toast should be butter side up or butter side down. Religion is just always present, so realistically you could argue religion has been a part of every war in human history. But it's really more that humans are a part of every war, and we suck at being peaceful little apes so off we go to slaughter each other again.

Except for Sunday and Saturday (my favourite days)

Saturnus :: The Greek God equivalent to Kronos and Sunna : Germanic God of the Sun?

Actually just Saturn, which was the roman version. But I think you are right about Sunna.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

The thing is, religion does more harm than good. Think of all the discrimination, wars, laws, etc. that have come of it.

You seem to be mistaking Religion for Fundamentalism.
I don't believe any Religion categorically states that people should be murdered or discriminated against. Even Satanism.

Yeah, but religion itself allows for these things to happen. Look at crusades, for goodness sake.

Bulldrek. If it wasn't religion, it would be race(2nd World War), Intellect(Pol Pot), morals(American Civil War), freedom(Independence Day) or resources(Gulf).
Religion is used as an excuse, it's almost never the progenitor.

 

[meatloaf231]

Yeah, but religion itself allows for these things to happen. Look at crusades, for goodness sake.

Religion is just one of the many causes for conflict. Wars are always about a difference in views, whether it's who owns what or whether toast should be butter side up or butter side down. Religion is just always present, so realistically you could argue religion has been a part of every war in human history. But it's really more that humans are a part of every war, and we suck at being peaceful little apes so off we go to slaughter each other again.

Which was part of my original statement. If we don't have religion to fight over, then we will find something else to kill each other about.

 

[PurpleRain]

Religion yes. Spirituallity no. I don't mind people worshiping god, but I hate people worshiping the pope. Blind faith in a religion is an evil evil thing.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Which was part of my original statement. If we don't have religion to fight over, then we will find something else to kill each other about.

So,...I'm lost here. Religion should be got rid of because it can be an excuse?

 

[The Iron Ninja]

Which was part of my original statement. If we don't have religion to fight over, then we will find something else to kill each other about.

Wasn't supposed to sound like I was disagreeing. *dances to lighten the mood*

 

[meatloaf231]

Which was part of my original statement. If we don't have religion to fight over, then we will find something else to kill each other about.

So,...I'm lost here. Religion should be got rid of because it can be an excuse?

Well, yeah. Sure it's a bit extreme, but I'm just taking the other side for debate's sake. Giving someone an excuse to do something not so nice to someone else is a recipe for disaster, and there's two pinches of rosemary. Ever heard someone say "Just give me an excuse. I dare you." as a threat? Yeah, that's humans right there. Always willing to go all out on each other as long as we know it's excused.