Poll: Would the world be a better place without religion?

[Ares Tyr]

What if you don't believe in the "Old man in the sky" or "A divine Brady Bunch" type of religion such as myself? Would I still fall in line with the mass of people avoiding accountability?

Most, not all. I never said Religion was always and completely 100% negative, but it is certainly not something which is beneficial by virtue of its very existence; not is it necessary to accomplish many of the ends it strives towards in so far as instilling people with a certain set of values.

What values and virtues in particular are you speaking of?

 

[DeadlyFred]

Obviously it would depend specifically upon the religion in question. Though most (again, not all) seem to extol at least some of the same basic ideals of community, integrity and behavior. There aren't a lot of religions I know of which encourage people to just generally be "bad" people. Some may have a few questionable tenants, depending on your opinion, but for the most part, Religious doctrine is aimed at teaching the positive. And I don't fault it for that much, as I said.

 

[Ares Tyr]

Obviously it would depend specifically upon the religion in question. Though most (again, not all) seem to extol at least some of the same basic ideals of community, integrity and behavior. There aren't a lot of religions I know of which encourage people to just generally be "bad" people. Some may have a few questionable tenants, depending on your opinion, but for the most part, Religious doctrine is aimed at teaching the positive. And I don't fault it for that much, as I said.

But you fault it for causing differences between people and propagating ignorance? If that is the case, then its not 'religion' which is at fault, but the people who are following said religion without being open mindedness. Alot of religions promote being open minded, including Buddhism and Christianity, however, its human nature to deny what is different and misunderstood, that's just the nature of most people. Its not the fault of the religion they fallow, but their own closed mindedness.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Obviously it would depend specifically upon the religion in question. Though most (again, not all) seem to extol at least some of the same basic ideals of community, integrity and behavior. There aren't a lot of religions I know of which encourage people to just generally be "bad" people. Some may have a few questionable tenants, depending on your opinion, but for the most part, Religious doctrine is aimed at teaching the positive. And I don't fault it for that much, as I said.

But you fault it for causing differences between people and propagating ignorance? If that is the case, then its not 'religion' which is at fault, but the people who are following said religion without being open mindedness. Alot of religions promote being open minded, including Buddhism and Christianity, however, its human nature to deny what is different and misunderstood, that's just the nature of most people. Its not the fault of the religion they fallow, but their own closed mindedness.

Well I do, to some extents, but that was not the statement I made. I faulted it for causing people to focus their existence and beliefs on some empirical fantasy beyond the concern of themselves. It is anathema to the integrity of one's personal sense of existence to be taught to put so much stock in some outside entity, as many religions do. I will draw a counterpoint: Taoism, if you want to call it a religion in the same sense of the word, puts much more focus upon one's own spirituality and how to cultivate and empower it; without relying upon the benefaction of a specific divine entity.

 

[Kikosemmek]

This is a badly phrased as a question. What you'd rather ask, I believe, is whether or not the world is better off without a specific religion, instead of religion in general.

A religion is a set of beliefs that brings forth an ideology and a way of life. It's safe to say that every human alive has a religion. We don't do that, though, because we only regard the widely-followed, most commonly referred to religions, but I don't believe in that.

So, you see, it's not that the world is better off without religion. It's practically impossible, the way I see it, to have a world without religion.

---

If you ask whether or not the world would be a better place without Christianity, then my answer would be yes.

 

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

I think the world would be a better place with one unified religion. But frankly, I think the world without spirituality would be a cold and lonely place.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Here's a list
-I don't think culture would had been similar to what we have today.
-I don't think that the crusades woud had existed.
-I think America would had a non-religious goverment. You have to admit, if you don't beleive in God, americans won't vote for you.
-No Holocaust.
-No Conservapedia.
-No pope.
-Bisexual sex would have been accepted.
-No "accodement raisonable" for the province in Quebec. (Canada)
-Less cultural differences.
-Less people like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4QcyEjMydk&feature=related

There's alot more, but I think you got the point.

 

[The Iron Ninja]

-No Conservapedia.

Okay that's good enough for me, let's abolish religion right now.

 

[Ares Tyr]

Obviously it would depend specifically upon the religion in question. Though most (again, not all) seem to extol at least some of the same basic ideals of community, integrity and behavior. There aren't a lot of religions I know of which encourage people to just generally be "bad" people. Some may have a few questionable tenants, depending on your opinion, but for the most part, Religious doctrine is aimed at teaching the positive. And I don't fault it for that much, as I said.

But you fault it for causing differences between people and propagating ignorance? If that is the case, then its not 'religion' which is at fault, but the people who are following said religion without being open mindedness. Alot of religions promote being open minded, including Buddhism and Christianity, however, its human nature to deny what is different and misunderstood, that's just the nature of most people. Its not the fault of the religion they fallow, but their own closed mindedness.

Well I do, to some extents, but that was not the statement I made. I faulted it for causing people to focus their existence and beliefs on some empirical fantasy beyond the concern of themselves. It is anathema to the integrity of one's personal sense of existence to be taught to put so much stock in some outside entity, as many religions do. I will draw a counterpoint: Taoism, if you want to call it a religion in the same sense of the word, puts much more focus upon one's own spirituality and how to cultivate and empower it; without relying upon the benefaction of a specific divine entity.

Well then I suppose I fall in the positive end of religions by your standard. I see your point.

 

[intercept]

There are five things you need to build a great society:

1. Economic Surplus
2. Principled Military
3. Constitutional Government
4. Leadership that serves the people
5. Moral Code


Every single empire in human history have risen because of those five traits, and every single one has fallen because one or more of those went into decline. There are no exceptions.

Religion deals with Moral Code. People need something more than the government and men to feel accountable for. Even for you atheists out there, unless you're a pathological killer or were raised really messed up, answer to some sort of higher authority. We're all taught not to kill. Why? Well, because it's wrong. Why? Because God said so, or barring that, it simply is. If you took a completely darwinist approach, then it's the logical thing to do to, say, kill any political candidate you don't agree with to protect your views. I mean if everyone lived completely logically, what's to stop you? If no one answered to some sort of higher authority or drew the line of what is right or what is wrong simply because then this is what it would all boil down to.

Now you could make the argument that people could believe in these things simply for the betterment of society in general, because order would lead to prosperity for everyone. But what keeps you from killing someone if you're smart enough to get away with it? Or stealing if you're smart enough to get away with it? Well, not much if you don't believe some things are wrong to do simply because they're wrong to do.

Also, if you didn't have religion, you wouldn't have the iPod. I'm serious. Christianity laid down the foundations for Western unity and industry. The power of monotheistic religions is a much stronger galvanizing force than something like Buddhism. Why do you think there were so many Crusades? And if it wasn't for the Crusades, those European troops returning from the Holy Land would've never returned with classical texts that were lost during the Middle Ages after the fall of Rome but preserved by the Muslims. That sparked the Renaissance. Religion inspired millions and millions of people in every human endeavor including literature, art, engineering, botany, exploration, medicine, etc. They were all concerned with trying to unravel the mysteries God implanted in the universe. That was their drive.

I'd say it's brought more good than harm.

Also, the music is killer.

 

[Labyrinth]

Religion is a very polarising thing. It's brought people together to achieve some of the greatest works of art, and some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity. Compare the roof of the Sistine chapel, or ornate and beautiful Gothic architecture to the horror of the Inquisition, the Holocaust or the Crusades.

Religion itself is an attempt to explain the world around us with a blank slate of understanding. It is vastly theoretical, relying on what can be seen or imagined with naked eyes and a need to be cared for. What better way to shield from fear than to believe that there is some all-powerful and ultimately parental consciousness who has your best interest and well-being at heart, who loves and cares for you if only you follow one or two rules and worship him?

To be fair to faith, we wouldn't be where we are now without it. The same way as art could be considered a necessary step for mental and cultural evolution. Without asking 'why' or 'how', we'd slip into some base and boring existence revolving around spoon-fed entertainment and what other people told us to believe. Hang on..

 

[Monkfish Acc.]

Religion had its place, once upon a time. The problem is, not many people realize we don't need it anymore. If it continues to exist it's only gonna cause more problems. Everyone has their own path, their own particular truth, so it isn't right to say that one belief is the only correct one.

 

[Reaperman Wompa]

I believe religion has caused a lot of problems and has killed a lot of people but I think that It should be respected for what It does for some people. A lot of people have really crappy lives and If It gives a few people hope or helps them through some tough parts of their life it should be respected.

My family knows this guy that died a year ago. He spent his entire life working at a low paying and hard job. He worked until the day he died (literally, he was working then came home and it happened). The only thing that got him through a life of pain and absolute crappiness was his religion. With his religion he was a kind and happy man, no matter what he went through. Without religion I think he wouldn't have been half as nice or kind as he was.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Even in the modern day world there are logical level headed people who believe in God and religion, there are some who will also name religion as a saviour and without it a lot of people would be without hope.

What you seem to forget is that you can't abolish religion, look at the roman persecution of christians, even if you banned it outright people would still worship God.

 

[Graustein]

half our wars are based on religious differences

Wrong.

The vast majority of wars committed in the name of religion were not done for religion. Religion was merely a convenient mask.

I agree with what has been said above. Religion is not a bad thing. Extremism is, dogma is, stagnation is. Absolute faith in ANY code can be a bad thing. Continuing with the above analogies regarding Stalin and Mao, I'd like to add the Japanese in World War II. They treated their prisoners as subhuman because they didn't see them as human. This wasn't a religious thing, this was a cultural thing. Religion is, I believe, on the whole a good thing. The problem is not the religion, it's the people heading the religion

 

[The Iron Ninja]

Most retarded thread ever. Forever.

Thankyou Danzorz. I'm sure everyone found that so very insightful.


On topic:
I'll love to say "Hell yes." But no, the world would probably be just as bad a place without Religion.

 

[Angron]

i believe the world would be much better without religion, mostly for the fact we would only have had about 1/2 the wars anyways.

Who noes, we may even have been able to form together as one world and work together rather than argue over the stupidest things! I believe we would be far more advanced than we are now if half of us just sit here saying 'God did it' (or whatever u believe in) and not try to find a solution.

done...

 

[Dys]

yes, it would be...but (yes, your damn right theres a 'but') if religon were to be forcefully removed, or if people felt that it was being removed against their will, my whole (core) argument for why religon is necessary and damaging becomes contradictory. My whole gripe with religon is I see it as ultimately being a way of controlling the masses (I'm not looking to start a flame war or offend anyone etc, that is what I think, please don't respond aggressively if you dislike my opinion), an outdated methods of control at that, that has potential (and at times does) cause a lot of harm. However removing it from society, especially against the will of the people, really just does (parts of) what I alreay dislike about religon on a larger scale

 

[Ultrajoe]

Wow, what a clever move OP, i'm sure a post about whether or not religion is bad for society will never end badly!

And with 3 lines of text as an original post, i'm sure nobody will derail this thread at all.

In any case, its another debate on how religion affects us, throw it in a pile with the others... Honestly, does nobody know how to use the search function? there are a million of these you can resurrect without starting another one...

Really, i should do what Msh does with feminism or 'girl gamer' discussions and tick off the same 50 points that come up again and again in every damn one of these threads. I guarantee there will be another one in two weeks, and i can play again.

Please internet, think before you act.