Poll: Would you date a transgendered person?

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

I'd say no. It just seems very... uncanny valley to me... although that's not the right term. Regardless, its just a bit off and unsettling to me as I'd feel like I'm just dating a normal man who's undergone surgeries that I see as wholly unnecessary destruction of what is just fine...

 

[Torrasque]

I have absolutely no idea =|
If I found them attractive physically and psychologically, then it would be reasonable to assume that I would date them, but I don't know how well I would be able to get past their whole "I used to be a dude" thing.
I hate adding this "I have nothing against transexuals or people who get their sex changed" bit because it seems contradictory to my above sentence (at least it does to me), but I really don't have anything against them. It just weirds me out and takes some time to get used to.

See - honesty. How hard is that to say, people? Really.

Nobody is going to think less of you for admitting that it might take you some time to get used to something new, or that you might not know how to handle an experience you haven't dealt with before.

But they will point out the inherent contradictory nature of your need to add "I have nothing against..." to cover yourself and make yourself appear tolerant.

Kudos to Torrasque for actually admitting being human enough to not actually knowing how to handle a new situation and realising it could take some time to get used to if it ever happened.

I don't think it is a normal human reaction to look at something strange and unfamiliar and say "I don't hate or love this, but I am willing to try it and see". I am very open minded when it comes to all things and only make an opinion of it when I actually know something about it. It is why I am an atheist, love science and ponies, and listen to many different kinds of music.

So... Thanks for the kudos, I shall spend them on cookies, but don't expect my response to be the norm.

 

[xmbts]

So many walls of angry text from all sides. Makes my brain hurt.

 

[jboking]

I date people I feel I could have a relationship, or even fall in love with. Since this is a video game website, I found a character that could best sum up my opinion on the issue

Spoiler: anders

[HEADING=2]"I've always believed that people fall in love with a whole person, not just a body.

Why would you shy away from loving someone just because they're like you"[/HEADING]

I fall in love with people, not bodies. Simple as that.

 

[jboking]

is anyone really getting tired of threads about gays, bisexuals, lesbians, and trannys?

Im mean, god bless everyone of different sexual orientation, but the forums are flooded with them and quite frankly, its fucking annoying.

Things go in cycles here at the escapist. It's sexuality day. But I don't see why that would be an issue. I mean, it can be annoying but it's not like it's hard to talk abo...

but in answer to the question, i would not because you are either a girl, or a boy....you cant choose. Stop lying to yourself and the people you hit on.


(note, the above does not refer to hermaphrodites.)

Oh. So you would not date a person because they identify as the opposite sex? Also, medical science would insist that you can, in fact, choose.

 

[albania614]

More interesting then the question, is just how many males compared to females there are on the Escapist.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Male here. I would NOT date a MTF (or FTM for that matter). Romance is out of the question if my significant other has a Y chromosome. Nothing personal.

 

[Jegsimmons]

is anyone really getting tired of threads about gays, bisexuals, lesbians, and trannys?

Im mean, god bless everyone of different sexual orientation, but the forums are flooded with them and quite frankly, its fucking annoying.

Things go in cycles here at the escapist. It's sexuality day. But I don't see why that would be an issue. I mean, it can be annoying but it's not like it's hard to talk abo...

but in answer to the question, i would not because you are either a girl, or a boy....you cant choose. Stop lying to yourself and the people you hit on.


(note, the above does not refer to hermaphrodites.)

Oh. So you would not date a person because they identify as the opposite sex? Also, medical science would insist that you can, in fact, choose.

no, i date women, only women, not guys PRETENDING to be women.
And what medical science where? Don't feed me that PC false science crap, until they can change your chromosome and DNA to 100% perfection, you are still the gender as you where born as.

 

[Phisi]

I would be friends with them but I don't think I'll be attracted to them so I wouldn't date them. It's like whether or not I'll date some fat greasy guy.

 

[Kennetic]

Nope I wouldn't do it and that's that. To me that's too weird

 

[Da_Vane]

Male here. I would NOT date a MTF (or FTM for that matter). Romance is out of the question if my significant other has a Y chromosome. Nothing personal.

You might want to check quite a few women then - the XXY genetic mutation actually results in females...

 

[jboking]

no, i date women, only women, not guys PRETENDING to be women.
And what medical science where? Don't feed me that PC false science crap, until they can change your chromosome and DNA to 100% perfection, you are still the gender as you where born as.

There is hormone therapy and of course Sex reassignment surgery. I'm sorry that medical science disagrees with your thoughts on the issue of "can we change someone's sex." Also, if your Y chromosomes no longer allow you to produce heavy amounts of testosterone and you are now able to produce more estrogen than testosterone...what is the purpose of your Y chromosome? Better yet, why should their chromosomes matter exactly? Let's say that you see someone walking down the street. The person has a delicate face, obviously real breasts, a curved waist, all the necessary features of a woman that you can tell a first glance. You two get to talking and the night seems like it is going to lead somewhere. You get to bed and behold, there is a vagina beneath the person's loins.

For the purposes of society, is that person male or female?

There is a larger issue here, though. You seem like a very angry person. Angry for no real reason. What's up with that?

 

[Da_Vane]

I have absolutely no idea =|
If I found them attractive physically and psychologically, then it would be reasonable to assume that I would date them, but I don't know how well I would be able to get past their whole "I used to be a dude" thing.
I hate adding this "I have nothing against transexuals or people who get their sex changed" bit because it seems contradictory to my above sentence (at least it does to me), but I really don't have anything against them. It just weirds me out and takes some time to get used to.

See - honesty. How hard is that to say, people? Really.

Nobody is going to think less of you for admitting that it might take you some time to get used to something new, or that you might not know how to handle an experience you haven't dealt with before.

But they will point out the inherent contradictory nature of your need to add "I have nothing against..." to cover yourself and make yourself appear tolerant.

Kudos to Torrasque for actually admitting being human enough to not actually knowing how to handle a new situation and realising it could take some time to get used to if it ever happened.

I don't think it is a normal human reaction to look at something strange and unfamiliar and say "I don't hate or love this, but I am willing to try it and see". I am very open minded when it comes to all things and only make an opinion of it when I actually know something about it. It is why I am an atheist, love science and ponies, and listen to many different kinds of music.

So... Thanks for the kudos, I shall spend them on cookies, but don't expect my response to be the norm.

That is unfortunately a very big part of the problem of the world.

But you are wrong - it is a normal human reaction to take that stance, but humanity has been undermined in society for quite some time. It seems that people take great delight in being ignorant and bigoted, in undermining their own species, with their own shortsightedness.

The real irony is that if the situation was reversed, these people would be the first to be screaming out for their own rights to be accepted and supported. But right now, it seems like they only want the right to be an arsehole to others because they can.

 

[Jegsimmons]

no, i date women, only women, not guys PRETENDING to be women.
And what medical science where? Don't feed me that PC false science crap, until they can change your chromosome and DNA to 100% perfection, you are still the gender as you where born as.

There is hormone therapy and of course [link="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery"] Sex reassignment surgery. I'm sorry that medical science disagrees with your thoughts on the issue of "can we change someone's gender." Also, if your Y chromosomes no longer allow you to produce heavy amounts of testosterone and you are now able to produce more estrogen than testosterone...what is the purpose of your Y chromosome? Better yet, why should their chromosomes matter exactly? Let's say that you see someone walking down the street. The person has a delicate face, obviously real breasts, a curved waist, all the necessary features of a woman that you can tell a first glance. You two get to talking and the night seems like it is going to lead somewhere. You get to bed and behold, there is a vagina beneath the person's loins.

For the purposes of society, is that person male or female?

There is a larger issue here, though. You seem like a very angry person. Angry for no real reason. What's up with that?

well, one, people call me angry...vicious cycle really
two, i don't care what 'medical experts' say, if you were born one gender, you are stuck as that gender no matter what you do yo your self. I can darken my skin, but that doesn't make me a black guy does it?
three, if the person has both, thats a separate gender in my opinion...a gender that comes around via mutation but hey, they cant help it. I wont date them, and would be pissed they led me other wise.....but meh, we can be friends.
four, the LGBT threads are so abundant, im starting to get annoyed by them. We get it, you are not straight....stop. rubbing. it. in. my. face. damn. it. I respect your life style choice, now respect my choice of not being of that life style and not being a big fan of it. You exist. GOT IT!.


welp, time to fill up the sand bags for the shit storm im sure i just caused.

 

[crudus]

No, without question. I could not do it. The fact that someone used to be a dude/chick is literally the only thought going through my head when I meet a transsexual. It isn't something I can get passed. I don't know why. I am a terrible person >.>

I like to think myself an open-minded person, but I clearly hit the limits of that quickly.

 

[Sexy Devil]

I would never date a transgendered person. I have no issue with them as people and won't treat them as lesser beings, but I am just not attracted to that and never will be.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I would not date a transgendered person. I also wouldn't date a man. Or someone who smokes. Or had a personality that clashed with mine. There are a lot of reasons why someone wouldn't date you, and getting angry about it isn't likely to change their mind. Medical science is irrelevant. Biology is irrelevant. The word of law is irrelevant. Even logic is irrelevant. Attraction is a nebulous thing that exists in the mind and eye of the beholder. It is a fickle beast, prone to change in an instant as one's perception of a person grows clearer.

For those that think that it is okay to hide who you are, or who you once were(depending on how you look at it), just know that when the truth is known, any fallout that occurs was yours to avoid. This is the case any potentially controversial aspect of one's life. If I, as a gamer, start dating someone and intentionally omit the fact that I play video games from any conversations that we have, I really have no right to be upset if she ends up dumping me once she finds out. There's nothing wrong with my love of video games, but had I been open about it in the first place, the incompatibility between us would not have been agitated by familiarity.

 

[Ledan]

There's very little evidence for a neurophysical base for gender at all. A transwoman is not really saying "I am a woman in a man's body," although that may be an easy way to explain it, but instead saying, "I am a human being who identifies with the social construct of a gender not normally associated with my biological sex." Sex is a quantifiable and objective concept; gender is social.

Reading through this forum, I consistently see the argument: "I was born with a y brain into an x body". We both agree this is not a factual statement. I fully agree that they are identifying with the cultural/social construct of the gender their biological sex isn't. There is nothing wrong with that.
But why would someone try to change their biological sex, when it has nothing to do with the social construct? They can be a very feminine man, who acts very much like a woman. You can't change your biological sex though, much like changing your DNA. Perhaps I could be persuaded to treat a transgender person differently from a man, but I see no reason to attempt to change your biological sex. Some cards that life hands you can't be changed, and must be accepted.

Saying "I don't believe in a male brain being born in a female body" is like saying "I don't believe in a Muslim brain being born in a white body." You're making the mistake of pairing up a social concept and a physical descriptor.

Religion has nothing to do with biology. This is not a skin-colour issue, nor an ethnicity issue and I dislike people bringing this up. I will never treat a transgender person in a discriminatory manner, but their biological sex will remain constant. There is no scientific evidence that they have changed their sex. Therefore I would not date them, but I would be friends with them.

It is also my right to believe that you are deluded. Are you so insecure that you care about what opinion some random guy on the internet has about transgender people?

Well it's not hard to see why a transperson would be a little insecure, when there are people belittling and diminishing them at every turn.

You have a right to believe that but it's not scientifically correct.

As of yet, no one has brought forth scientific evidence for the argument that transgender people are not the gender of their biological sex. You claim that gender and sex are dualist, with no further argument. You claim gender is a "sliding scale", on what grounds?
A male is a man, doesn't matter if he is feminine, homosexual, masculine, or heterosexual. These have nothing to do with a person's gender.

I have the right to believe that black people are evolutionarily lesser beings than white people but it's not true and it's a toxic belief that both white and black people have an interest in correcting. In the same way, both trans and a lot of cis people are probably going to be less than happy when you try and claim that it's morally neutral to spreading an unreasonable and insensitive opinion. Don't be surprised if you're attacked.

How is my opinion unreasonable? I've repeatedly said that transgender people shouldn't be discriminated against. However, I find that it is an incorrect statement to say that they have changed gender or sex. A transgender man is a very effeminate man who identifies with the female culture. He is different from a woman. He may have different opinions, mannerisms, behavior, and culture than other men, but he is still a man.
I think people should do whatever makes them happy. I think anyone should be able to marry anyone, anyone should be able to get a job anywhere. No one should be discriminated against for their beliefs, cultural identity, ethnicity, gender, sex, sexual orientation, etc. People are people.

 

[Buffoon]

I would not. For me the psychological barrier would just be too much. Which is a pity, really, as it narrows the field, and frankly the number of people who could tolerate me as a partner is pretty limited already

 

[Spy_Guy]

Personally, I'd rather avoid the problem outright by imposing laws that reconstructed genitals must be marked with a tattoo, or similar.

Or maybe transexuals should wear a badge.

Spoiler: Large image

For the good of everyone else, ya?

You seem to have missed the reasoning behind this. I see no reason to ostracize transpeople, however I believe that if they end up in a sexual relationship with a person, then that person has the right to know of their status as such.
If they had been open about it in the first place, this should not come as a surprise or matter to whoever they are with... and if they haven't been open about it, well, shame on them.

However, unlike your example of people being branded for being a certain way [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw], there is a biological difference between born males/females and FTMs/MTFs.

To quote Wikipedia:

Many people also see "sex change" as factually inaccurate.[3] Sex in humans is usually determined by four factors:

• 
  [li]Chromosomes[/li]
  [li]Gonads (Ovaries and/or testicles)[/li]
  [li]Hormone status[/li]
  [li]Primary sex characteristics, sometimes also secondary sex characteristics[/li]

Not all of these factors can be changed, however:

• 
  [li]Chromosomes cannot be changed.[/li]
  [li]Gonads can be removed, but not replaced[/li]
  [li]Hormone status is easily changed[/li]
  [li]Existing secondary sex characteristics can to some extent be changed; existing ones mostly through surgery, non-existing ones can be induced to grow through hormones.[/li]

Comparing a relatively non-intrusive marker to the star Jews wore during the Holocaust is shaky at best, especially considering that I'm not proposing we ship them off to camps and gas them. I'm just requesting a bit of honesty, really.

-snip-


So, let me ask you a question:

Do you think it's morally sound to enter into a relationship with someone and not telling them that you weren't born as your current gender?

-snip-

And it isn't a shame that the burden to spread this information should fall on your shoulders. You are the person who doesn't like trans people, it's your responsibility to inform people of your insecurities. Just because it might be slightly inconvienient for the priviledged majority, doesn't mean you should be able to pass the burden onto a minority, especially when that burden is much greater (revealing you're trans > revealing your insecure)

I took the liberty of fixing the formatting in the above quote, I hope you don't mind.

First of all, let me tell you that I find that condescending attitude rather offensive. I think there are better ways to get your point across than to argue ad hominem, don't you agree?

With that out of the way, I'd like to argue that you chose to become part of the minority in question and chances are you knew that some things just are never going to be the same as it is for people like me or my girlfriend.

I personally find it distressing that people these days have no way of knowing if someone is a biological male or female and actually have to stoop to asking. I don't think it should be a surprise that a lot of people might overlook asking on account of not having all their bases covered, yet still not want to date a transperson.

In that case, it would fall to you to not waste their time, or yours.

We live in a world where trans people are judged for not passing as their gender, but then when they do pass as their gender, they are called out for trying to "trick" people.

By looking like someone who might be able to give the person a long-term relationship and the possibility of giving them children, yet knowing from the start that they cannot.
Also by looking like something they are not, I believe they're their biological gender in disguise.

As has previously been mentioned here, it's not possible to turn a man into a woman, or vice versa, but they can be made to look the part (see my quote from Wikipedia above)

...yes, they are trying to "trick" people.

Look, let's imagine a dating profile. On this dating profile the person says they are interested in women. A MTF transperson should be able to apply to this dating profile without revealing she is trans, because that profile's only specification was that the partner had to be a woman, and MTF people are women.

Sure, an MTF who feels like they could apply can feel free to do so. Then again, if they say that they are MTF and ask if that's alright at some point that could save both parties a lot of headaches and time.
Plus, if the person who put the profile up doesn't mind isn't that the best outcome for the both of these people?
The transperson doesn't have to worry and there's no risk that the one who put up the profile is going to get a nasty surprise one day.

Don't you think it's better to just come out with that sort of thing ASAP, to save both of them the trouble?

It's quite selfish to think "It's very private to me and they don't need to know" because in my mind I interpret that as:

Me getting laid > The other person's feelings.

Is this a misunderstanding on my behalf, and if so, could you explain what it is instead?