Poll: Would you date a transgendered person?

[johnboy424]

I realize that I'm a little late to this discussion, but I'd still like to add my opinion.

I'll start out by saying that I've never (knowingly) met a transsexual pre- or post-op, so my opinion may change if I ever do meet one.

Anyway, I'm a heterosexual male, and I wouldn't date a transsexual. I've seen pictures of attractive transsexual women, but knowing that they were once a man is an instant turn-off for me. I don't think you can change what you're attracted to, and I wouldn't date someone who I was completely unattracted to.

However, that isn't saying that I disapprove of transsexuals in any way. If he or she is unhappy as his or her natural gender, then I don't see why he or she shouldn't be able to do something about it. I would be fine with spending time with or forming a friendship with a transsexual. If I meet one who's fun to be around and isn't an ass all the time, then sure I'd be friends with him or her. Maybe I would even come form a lifelong friendship with that person, and to love that person in the same way that I love my other close friends. Loving someone doesn't necessarily imply a desire to date him or her.

Having said that, there is a possibility that I would reconsider my position on this if I was already in a committed intimate relationship with someone who revealed that she was a transsexual. It's a tricky situation, and I'm really not sure how I'd react. On the one hand, I would definitely feel quite misled. In addition, I want to have my own kids, and that would be troubling to work out in this scenario. On the other hand, I think if the we both felt strongly enough about each other, then I would try to work things out. It wouldn't be easy, and I might not be able to accept it, but I'd try at least.

 

[orangeban]

It always strikes me as a bit odd when people claim that if they date someone without knowing they are trans, they've somehow been tricked, like it's the transpersons moral duty to reveal something very private and personal about themselves just to ensure they don't offend the person they're dating.

It's no different than I think a married guy should tell me he is married before he starts dating me so I can make an informed choice. The same with someone with an STD (especially the fun ones that never go away like herpes and AIDS)

It's totally different. Partners should tell you if their married because you should know that you might be breaking up a family, or even placing yourself in harms way. Partners should tell you about STDs because that is a genuine health risk for you.

However, there is no reason for a partner to tell you they are trans. If you are told by your partner, you should feel honoured because they trust you enough to confide in you. There is no health risk involved in sleeping with a trans person, they are not obliged to tell you. The only real argument is that a post-op trans person cannot have children, but even then I think it is better for the partner who wants children to make that clear, rather than the trans person having to say they are trans.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

 

[gazumped]

*feels incredibly late to the party*

It's interesting that people are suggesting that genitalia that might work differently to cis-gendered people would be an issue... granted I don't have a huge range of experience but of the four male organs I've been intimate with, one suffered from erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation, one had phismosis, one had a condition where it couldn't flex to any great degree, limiting us to about three positions, and one was so big it hurt for me to pee for the next three days. You find ways around it (okay, I broke up with the last guy soon after that happened but I was with the others for a long while!)

As for me, I'd date FtMs or MtFs, I don't know if maybe it's easier for me because I'm bi, and possibly also because I was brought up with the firm teachings that boys and girls are equal and gender stereotypes are wrong, but I've never seen it as weird or icky for someone to want to be treated in a way that society says they shouldn't be because of their genitals/chromosomes.
As my trans friend said (and I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her) "I've always been a woman, it's not my fault I have to fight for people to accept that."

Interestingly, there's a Native American tribe who dealt with this quite neatly by labelling the masculine and the feminine as 'spirits' that can inhabit any body, meaning that people could to live with masculine or feminine traits without having to undergo surgery to feel like they were allowed to do so. http://uk.jezebel.com/5812179/the-navajo-cultures-four-different-genders
But anyway, this is a little off topic...

I'd also be cool if they didn't want to come out and tell me upfront. It's not like it affects me in any way, and I kind of like it when my partners have something new to tell me about their pasts several months down the line, with some fresh new stories to tell me about their life experiences.

 

[ploppytheman]

They just need to figure out what is causing people to be attracted to the wrong gender and fix it already so we can stop having all these stupid discussions and actually do something worthwhile with our time and money.

You claim that homosexuality ( I assume this is what you mean by "wrong gender.") is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Any argument you make here will be tainted with this, Sorry but the world simply does not need bigots like you.[/quote]

Bigot. Original. Is that how you end arguments?

It is obviously a problem. Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant. People are too stuck in their PC mindset to step outside and look at what they are. And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed. People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

I mean you say its not a choice, your born that way, so its obviously something that can be fixed when we find the right variables. But this generation is too engrained in PC and afraid to think so maybe the next generation will realize, hey, this is not how my body is supposed to work and I would like it to be fixed, what can we do about this? People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it? I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e. And in 50yrs once people stop being PC retards they will find a cure for it and this will be archived in libraries where few people even know about. I'd almost be willing to vote for gay rights to accelerate the process.

 

[torzath]

You aren't accepting the fact that you are male. What part of you was born wrong? There is no evidence for dualism in gender, no evidence for an "x" brain in a "y" body. Insult me as much as you want, but your argument is full of hot air.

There's very little evidence for a neurophysical base for gender at all. A transwoman is not really saying "I am a woman in a man's body," although that may be an easy way to explain it, but instead saying, "I am a human being who identifies with the social construct of a gender not normally associated with my biological sex." Sex is a quantifiable and objective concept; gender is social.

Saying "I don't believe in a male brain being born in a female body" is like saying "I don't believe in a Muslim brain being born in a white body." You're making the mistake of pairing up a social concept and a physical descriptor.

It is also my right to believe that you are deluded. Are you so insecure that you care about what opinion some random guy on the internet has about transgender people?

Well it's not hard to see why a transperson would be a little insecure, when there are people belittling and diminishing them at every turn.

It isn't an insult to you personally, it's just my belief about transgenders. I don't believe in a separation of gender and sex. Just like I don't believe in the soul.

You have a right to believe that but it's not scientifically correct. I have the right to believe that black people are evolutionarily lesser beings than white people but it's not true and it's a toxic belief that both white and black people have an interest in correcting. In the same way, both trans and a lot of cis people are probably going to be less than happy when you try and claim that it's morally neutral to spreading an unreasonable and insensitive opinion. Don't be surprised if you're attacked.

This. So much this. I know "this" posts aren't really productive at all, but this is completely how I feel here.

 

[VoEC]

This reminds me of something i saw on another site - doctors do a good job.

10 Handsome men (that were born female) http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx
10 Gorgeous woman (that were born male) http://www.oddee.com/item_98035.aspx

Every one of those "women" are clearly men based on their faces, except maybe #5 which could just look like a masculine woman.

The men have more impressive transformations, only a couple of them are given away by their faces. The facial hair many of them have probably helps to trigger the brain to "male".

I won't post links due to escapist policy around posting pics of genitals, but the surgeons are far less successful in getting the genitals to look natural, and of course they don't function correctly for sexual purposes.

I know it is just my opinion but I think that most of them look really gorgeous (men and women). I think if it wasn't explicitly said even you couldn't tell the difference.
Of course some of them have pretty masculine/feminine faces but you also have to remember that they probably started transitioning pretty late (at least it seems like it).
If a trans person starts his or her threatment at young age (before 20) it gets almost impossible to tell only from their outer appearance (depends on body type) and if they started before puberty it is impossible.

Regarding the surgery:
It depends om where you do it and who does it.
I think the healthcare system in some countries isn't that great (or none existend at all) so they have to do it cheap in a coutry like thailand. If you can afford it the result will be very different.
Thank god our country is only governed by only 50% total morons and we have a fair health care system so I don't have to worry about that.
I think it differs a bit with FTM and the result isn't that good as with MTF but I can not really say much about this.

 

[Para199x]

I don't think I could ever look at them and REALLY see any post op as "their new gender". They will always be victims of a mental illness and medical misconduct to me. As such I will treat them with respect and I will be the first to support them in obtaining equal rights and good treatment, but they will never really be their new gender in my mind.

So you don't support them then? This is the very first decision everybody really needs to make when dealing with another human being - the moment you decide they will NEVER be their new gender in your mind, you have undermined their rights. That's like saying you have decided that they will NEVER be a human being in your mind. You don't have to be dating someone to make this decision - it is common courtesy.

You won't know if someone is pre-op or post-op until they tell you or you are close enough to get intimate with them, but you will be able to determine what gender they are and how they should be treated long before that. If your sense of what gender a person is is based on the status of their genitalia, then you are sadly mistaken, because unless you make the habit of wandering naked, this isn't something people normally see.

There are other gender cues, and these gender cues reinforce gender identity. If in doubt, go for the gender cues in the way people are dressed, and other conscious, deliberate choices they are making to reinforce those gender cues. These are simple things that, while they often come across as stereotypical, and trying too hard, are usually done for a reason - just like any other identity cue.

If ANYBODY feels they have the right to decide that someone else will NEVER be something, then perhaps they should be the ones diagnosed with the mental illness. Because they are obviously lacking in the courtesy and empathy required to be a human being, and maybe they should understand and experience what it is like to be treated as if they will NEVER be something that they care about, as much as they desire it. To never be treated as a reasonable person that has the right to share opinions in public on the state of others should suffice in most cases.

I don't think that saying a genetic male will never be a female is in anyway undermining their rights, they have a right to think they are mentally a female and act accordingly and get cosmetic surgery etc. so they look like that but they will still not be female. That doesn't mean they aren't human and it doesn't mean i think they are doing something wrong or even repulsive just that genes are genes and they are male.

Specifically in your last paragraph, saying that you can't say that somebody will never be something unless you are crazy. That makes me think you are deluded, i can say with absolute certainty that you will never ever be a xenomorph

Again I have no issue with transgender people, do what makes you happy, but that doesn't mean that after cosmetic surgery they actually become what they are trying to look like. It's essentially a very extreme fancy dress. If it makes a person happier go ahead, I will still treat you like a human being and you have all the same rights as anyone else, but you aren't what you are dressed up as.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant.

Prove it.

And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed.

Prove it.

People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

Prove it.

People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Nonsensical argument, broad generalization.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it?

How many people would rather just make a pill to prevent other from murdering them for being gay?

I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e.

You dont even know what you're arguing, do you?



Yes, you're a damned bigot.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

Your assumption about me is about as far from correct as possible lol.

But, assuming for the moment I was a straight man in that scenario... your comparison is silly. Only you can say what you feel emotionally, I don't deny that trans people feel the way they do. The question of changing sex however is physical and can be verified by medical examination. Their gender didn't change. Their chromosomes didn't change. They just had cosmetic surgery and hormones to mimic what they would like to be.

You ignored the question, answer it.

 

[Versuvius]

They just need to figure out what is causing people to be attracted to the wrong gender and fix it already so we can stop having all these stupid discussions and actually do something worthwhile with our time and money.

You claim that homosexuality ( I assume this is what you mean by "wrong gender.") is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Any argument you make here will be tainted with this, Sorry but the world simply does not need bigots like you.

Bigot. Original. Is that how you end arguments?

It is obviously a problem. Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant. People are too stuck in their PC mindset to step outside and look at what they are. And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed. People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

I mean you say its not a choice, your born that way, so its obviously something that can be fixed when we find the right variables. But this generation is too engrained in PC and afraid to think so maybe the next generation will realize, hey, this is not how my body is supposed to work and I would like it to be fixed, what can we do about this? People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it? I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e. And in 50yrs once people stop being PC retards they will find a cure for it and this will be archived in libraries where few people even know about. I'd almost be willing to vote for gay rights to accelerate the process.[/quote]

Evolutionary perfect has become a null point and is utterly irrelivent, indeed the whole definition of evolution is that it occurs naturally and is propagated by environmental factors affecting how well certain traits behave in the environment. It could be seen homosexuality is an evolutionary step due to our metropolitan environment, that everyone can get along a bit more efficiency (Male to male, female to female, male to male to male and a bit of female etc). This of course is silly as gay men can't naturally breed but it's closer to social evolution where segregating people makes survival and living that bit harder and more unpleasant. You speak as though homosexualy is a disease that needs curing, in short that is what Eugenics is and labelling someone diseased, inefficient or whatever you like is called being bigoted, it is judgemental and silly. Everyone has an opinion, most are factually wrong. That homosexualy can be 'cured' is factually wrong. It can be repressed through abuse like it was which causes trauma and various neurological issues (Which are problems that need curing) making being a Bigot a disease that you carry and inflict on people, causing severe neurological problems.

See why you're argument is stupid? Go take a pill and cure yourself of your disease, we will all be better for it.

Edit: Something broke the syntax/quotes. Bloody hell

 

[orangeban]

They just need to figure out what is causing people to be attracted to the wrong gender and fix it already so we can stop having all these stupid discussions and actually do something worthwhile with our time and money.

You claim that homosexuality ( I assume this is what you mean by "wrong gender.") is a problem that needs to be fixed.

Any argument you make here will be tainted with this, Sorry but the world simply does not need bigots like you.

Bigot. Original. Is that how you end arguments?

It is obviously a problem. Any evolutionary benefit homosexuality may have had, and it may not have even had any, is no longer relevant. People are too stuck in their PC mindset to step outside and look at what they are. And deviation from heterosexuality is an error and should be fixed. People argue about gay rights when in reality the problem IS homosexuality.

I mean you say its not a choice, your born that way, so its obviously something that can be fixed when we find the right variables. But this generation is too engrained in PC and afraid to think so maybe the next generation will realize, hey, this is not how my body is supposed to work and I would like it to be fixed, what can we do about this? People make homosexuality who they are rather than a part of them, so they can never let go of it.

Doesn't matter really, I mean how many people who are afflicted by this would take a pill to stop it? I'm sure a lot of people hate they are homosexual or w/e. And in 50yrs once people stop being PC retards they will find a cure for it and this will be archived in libraries where few people even know about. I'd almost be willing to vote for gay rights to accelerate the process.[/quote]

Blimey, this is... an interesting post.

Right, the best way to tackle something like this is questions, get you to analyse your own point.

Why is heterosexuality right?
If evolutionary benefits don't matter, why is homosexuality wrong?
What makes a deviation from heterosexuality wrong?
If it causes no damage to the person, and they can enjoy their life just as fully as a heterosexual person, why should people become heterosexual?
People are born heterosexual, does that mean we should work out the "cure" for heterosexuality?
These people who hate being homosexual, what if the reason they hate it is because society is insisting that homosexuality is wrong?
Why should your morals impact on people's freedom to accepted and treated equally as who they are?

I suppose I should also offer my opinion, which is that a "cure" for homosexuality would set back the gay rights movement by years, by validating all the right-wing rhetoric about homosexuality being a choice, and it'll also lead to pressuring people into becoming heterosexual, rather than accepting themselves as themselves.

 

[ploppytheman]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

They aren't women, they are dudes. They turn their dick inside out so ur literally sticking ur dick in their dick, which is obviously gay even typing it makes me feel sick.

Whatever gender you are born at birth, thats what you are for life. If you feel different then your brain is wrong because your gender is in your chromosomes which you cant change.

Cutting off your dick doesnt change it.
Pretending to act like a woman doesnt change it.
Wearing girl clothes doens't change it.
Taking hormones doesn't change it.

And there are all the things that dont change like facial structure, giant hands, hips, etc and most importantly CHILDREN.

 

[Versuvius]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

They aren't women, they are dudes. They turn their dick inside out so ur literally sticking ur dick in their dick, which is obviously gay even typing it makes me feel sick.

Whatever gender you are born at birth, thats what you are for life. If you feel different then your brain is wrong because your gender is in your chromosomes which you cant change.

Cutting off your dick doesnt change it.
Pretending to act like a woman doesnt change it.
Wearing girl clothes doens't change it.
Taking hormones doesn't change it.

And there are all the things that dont change like facial structure, giant hands, hips, etc and most importantly CHILDREN.

It doesn't change it but it makes the TG individual feel better and have a better quality of life, you making an issue of it makes the treatment/solution of their neurological disorder (Sorry, that's offensive) less effective. Making you another thing that needs cutting off...

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

MTF people are women.

No, they aren't. They like to call themselves that and they feel that, but they are no more a woman than an 85lb anorexic is fat. Both may believe it with all their heart, but its still not true.

I assume you consider yourself a straight man. For the sake of argument, lets assume you believe this. Well, you're not. You're in fact a homosexual, no matter how much you claim to be straight, you cant change the fact that you're gay. You are not straight, nor will you ever be straight. You may believe it with all your heart, but its still not true.

How does it feel to be treated this way?

They aren't women, they are dudes. They turn their dick inside out so ur literally sticking ur dick in their dick, which is obviously gay even typing it makes me feel sick.

Ah, here's the argument I was looking for.

You're so deathly terrified of homosexuals, that the very idea of them sickens you.

So how's that closet treating you?

 

[ploppytheman]

Blimey, this is... an interesting post.

Right, the best way to tackle something like this is questions, get you to analyse your own point.

Why is heterosexuality right?
If evolutionary benefits don't matter, why is homosexuality wrong?
What makes a deviation from heterosexuality wrong?
If it causes no damage to the person, and they can enjoy their life just as fully as a heterosexual person, why should people become heterosexual?
People are born heterosexual, does that mean we should work out the "cure" for heterosexuality?
These people who hate being homosexual, what if the reason they hate it is because society is insisting that homosexuality is wrong?
Why should your morals impact on people's freedom to accepted and treated equally as who they are?

I suppose I should also offer my opinion, which is that a "cure" for homosexuality would set back the gay rights movement by years, by validating all the right-wing rhetoric about homosexuality being a choice, and it'll also lead to pressuring people into becoming heterosexual, rather than accepting themselves as themselves.

Heterosexuality is right in most cultures and religions and anything else is wrong, even to the point of killing those people it is believe to be so wrong and harmful. Heterosexuality is needed for evolution and the way animals procreate. In humans anything other than heterosexuality serves no purpose.

Homosexuality is just an error that has yet to be corrected, like any genetic disease or anything else unwanted. People are too PC atm to see it and think its like being black so people are too afraid to say anything.

Im pretty sure if you look up the statistics for STDs and drug use in homosexual men and the other groups you will see great harm. Go look at the CDC for AIDS and other STDs.

You cant cure whats right. Heterosexaulity is the proper expression for sex, which leads to children and families. Homosexuality cannot produce children or families.

It doesnt matter why they hate being a homosexual. Why do you think you need to be the person that gets to choose for them if you care so much about freedom?

And yes I would have my morals affect others freedom, punish them for their crimes, and take their lives and/or property for violating them.


Gay rights wouldnt need to exist because there would be no more gay people in a generation. The problem would solve itself. No one really wants to be gay. I've heard a lot of people say who would choose this life, and they are right.


Why do you care what some politicians think? So you'd rather remain broken to stick it to the Republicans? Ill show you!!! Ill be gay and get rights rather than do whats best for me and the group I identify with! HA STUPID REPUBLICANS!!!


You shouldn't accept homosexuality ever because then you've gave up. Maybe you should talk to the right wingers and tell em you want money to cure homosexuality, I'm sure they'd give you funding. And who are you to deny the people who DONT want to be homosexual or w/e a chance to live a normal life. Thats pretty selfish to people you claim to want to help, and the future people who are born homosexual etc.