Poll: Would you have sympathy for these guys?

[Fallow]

Got you! I switched the sexes around! The victims were actually women! You all walked into my dastardly trap!

​

While these men would get some sympathy for their plights, they all made active choices (and I have to give some respect to playah no 2, he went all in for that poontang) and they lost. Bringing a stranger into your apartment is begging for the possibility of theft, just like rawdogging a random (and if someone is barebacking to your place, chances are he/she has done it before).
Getting laid is great, but pretending like such endeavours do not have any inherent risk, or that they hold no responsibility while taking those risks, is plain childish. If you wanna play the doinking game, you acknowledge and accept the possibility of mishaps, be it children, STDs, or classic thievery.

It might also be worth nothing that HIV/AIDS is very rare these days, so that risk is very low, unless you run into...

Spoiler

 

[Kevlar Eater]

Scenario #1: No idea where this story came from. Possibly something on the news?

Scenario #2: To Kill a Mockingbird, or a alternate version had Atticus not been around to help the black man at least get a trial

Scenario #3: Charlie Sheen? (wild guess here)

In any case, I have sympathy for all the men in these scenarios. The same if the sexes were switched.

Now regarding the subject manner, this sounds very much MGTOW/Redpill/MRA/etc type of thing, not sure if it's intentional, but it sure paints women as evil manipulators. Sadly though, men are more often the ones guilty of a crime when engaging in a one night stand. Though it's more things like date rape, corrosion, or knowingly spreading an STD by not wearing protection, or informing their partner.

It's basically, from the reading of the poll and the scenarios presented, it's an MGTOW/MGHOW thing. Portraying women as evil exploitative creatures that will lure men into sex just to destroy their lives, or rob them blind. At least that's what I gathered.

Really, what is up with your hatred of MGTOW's and red-pillers? Do they regularly say/do things you disapprove of? Is it because they believe they don't need to, respectively, shove a cock in a sopping wet vaj in order to live a fulfilling life, or use an alternative way to get sex while getting or staying attractive? I don't go into a gender-related thread and basically say "lol dis be more femmanatzi tripe". That would be an incredibly rude thing for me to do, even though I really do think many gender-related topics are like this (not at first, but then the white knights ride into battle and the thread gets more off-rail than Amtrak). Would you give the women who choose to "go their own way" or are red-pillers themselves any crap? If yes, equality! If not, misandry.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Now regarding the subject manner, this sounds very much MGTOW/Redpill/MRA/etc type of thing, not sure if it's intentional, but it sure paints women as evil manipulators. Sadly though, men are more often the ones guilty of a crime when engaging in a one night stand. Though it's more things like date rape, corrosion, or knowingly spreading an STD by not wearing protection, or informing their partner.

It's basically, from the reading of the poll and the scenarios presented, it's an MGTOW/MGHOW thing. Portraying women as evil exploitative creatures that will lure men into sex just to destroy their lives, or rob them blind. At least that's what I gathered.

Really, what is up with your hatred of MGTOW's and red-pillers? Do they regularly say/do things you disapprove of? Is it because they believe they don't need to, respectively, shove a cock in a sopping wet vaj in order to live a fulfilling life, or use an alternative way to get sex while getting or staying attractive? I don't go into a gender-related thread and basically say "lol dis be more femmanatzi tripe". That would be an incredibly rude thing for me to do, even though I really do think many gender-related topics are like this (not at first, but then the white knights ride into battle and the thread gets more off-rail than Amtrak). Would you give the women who choose to "go their own way" or are red-pillers themselves any crap? If yes, equality! If not, misandry.

Well judging by the MGTOW/Redpill subreddits, they only say things that are rather misogynistic and disagreeable. Granted the ones who actually do go their own way, as in they don't sit around complaining about women, probably aren't on my radar. This thread let off big red flashing light and waving warning flags for me because the women are all portrayed as evil, manipulative and intentionally seeking to do men harm. Well either that or just using men, then throwing them under the bus when it's convenient. Now when it comes to women, obvious man hating lesbians who go around calling all men rapists, as in sex-negative radfems, will get called just the same by me. In fact a woman spewing the redpill or radfem position, the same as a man, will get basically the same amount of me grumbling about their blatant sexist and cissexist positions.

To clarify too, I'm ace so I have no problem with people abstaining from sex, or from avoidint the company of people they dislike, even if the reason they avoid those people are because of: Biological sex, gender identity, race, religion, or sexuality. The line is crossed when someone starts spewing sexist, racist, homophibic, transphobic, and anti-religion based biases, misinformation, and/or hate speech. It's just that most often some groups, generally ones with more societal privilege are the most vocal with ignorant hateful bile, despite it existing on all sides of such situations.

Edit: I should add that I also take a dim view and stance against "cisphobic" and "heterophobic" rhetoric. That would count if I ever encountered any real instances of those, but I never have, the closest I ever gotten to seeing that is when it's done in jest. Which like with all off-color jokes, might get a chuckle for me, but also a "that's not right", or "that's not cool" statement in response.

Edit 2: The exception being transpobic humor, because it's a sensitive topic, often reflects real transphobia, it lost all humor value around the turn of last century... It's just at this point it's a continuous raw wound for the trans community, especially when we continue to face open hate. So we can't get any distance from it, or the societal crap that goes along with it.

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Most of them deserves consequences they do when they involve strangers - thus risking stranger-related incidents.

They should've listened to their mother.
Sympathy goes to those who didn't have proper mother to listen the lesson(s) from.

 

[Battenberg]

The way I look at it having a 1 night stand is similar to Russian roulette, albeit with better odds and less severe consequences. Sure you could pull (the trigger) and maybe it'll be a nice little adrenaline/ endorphin rush for you. You also choose to run the risk of it blowing up in your face and having long term consequences. (Obviously this is more applicable to people having reckless ONS's when they should know better e.g. not using protection, being old enough to keep your hormones in check etc.)

Sure the odds of getting good out of the experience are better than something bad happening but when the consequences are that severe why risk it? So yeah I have some sympathy for people who fall foul of negative consequences because they've clearly been unlucky but not a lot since they decided that risk was worth it for a shag with a stranger.

 

[Joccaren]

Nice "To Kill a Mockingbird" reference there.

Anyway, yes, in all situations, sympathy is deserved. If someone walks through a dangerous area at night, and gets raped or mugged, they deserve sympathy. If something bad happens to someone, they deserve sympathy.

At the same time, these people naturally need a bit more common bloody sense.
1. Careful who you invite yourself into private with. ALWAYS a rule. No exceptions. This also goes for drinking with people, going places with them - ect. If its someone you don't know, be cautious. Ideally you shouldn't have anything happen, and if something does than that's really shit and full sympathy for it, but a good dose of common sense would go a long way to stopping these things happening. You don't walk around the theft capitals in Italy with very obvious $100 notes taped on to your handbag. You also don't just immediately completely trust strangers with your safety or belongings. Its just not very wise.
2. A little bit of common sense in the fact that maybe it wasn't the best idea to sleep with Ms Whitey here. Ok, poor way to put it, but if you're in a really damn racist area... Doing something to aggravate people's racism probably isn't the best idea. Its like when Top Gear went through that town in... IDK, somewhere in South Central America with "I love Hilary Clinton" and "Gay Pride" and shit plastered all over their cars. Sure, they should be safe, and thankfully they got out fine, but when you're going to an area that is strongly against something, aggravating those people isn't a good idea in general. I view this as kind of like cheating on your husband/wife. Sure, maybe you'll get out Scott free. There's a not so small chance that you'll get found out and shit will go down though. Ditching the whole morality issue behind it, common sense would say its safer just not to do so.
3. If you have unprotected sex, its bloody well a good idea to make sure either a) You're with a partner you want to be with for the rest of your life, or as long as seems reasonable given you could end up with a kid or STI, b) You make sure they have no STIs, or c) Both. Yes, they have some level of responsibility to tell you if they know, but you're not helping yourself by not asking, and if they don't know you're putting yourself in danger anyway. Ideally, just don't have unprotected sex unless you're trying to have a kid.

In all cases, yes, sympathy should be given. Something shit happened to someone, blaming them for it never helps anything. That said, each of the above cases could have benefited from a pint of common sense. If you're going to perform activities that put you at risk, you need to at least think about those risks and be prepared for what happens if it all goes south. Just expecting it to all work out is IMO stupid. Maybe its just 'cause I've travelled the world and seen things happen to people I know in doing so, but I feel you do need to think ahead about unsafe or risky activities. You still deserve sympathy, you also deserve to be told you were being kind of stupid.

The phrase "asking for it" is taken far too literally in these situations. My father didn't ask for lung cancer, but smake 2 packs a day and you really don't have the right to be surprised by it. Someone toying with or cleaning a loaded gun isn't asking to be shot, but it goes against basic gun safety. A drunk getting behind the wheel isn't asking for an accident, but come on, don't drink and drive is drilled into us from so early an age I don't anyone remembers the first time they heard the rule.

I get where this goes, and it's a tough one: one the one hand we want to give sympathy to those that have been hurt, on the other we have the Darwin Awards. I mean, scenario C has a current real life counterpart. Does anyone really see Charlie Sheen as a victim of anything but his hedonistic lifestyle and arrogance? There comes a point where you have to stop and say that if you aren't even going to try and minimize the risk to yourself just through arrogance and laziness, that yes, you forfeit my sympathy.

As for what this is an obvious comparison to, that's something of a case by case basis, but as someone witha fair bit of alcoholism in the family, suffice to say I don't have much sympathy to those looking for it for things that happened while inebriated.

Basically this, though my sympathy is always available to an extent.

Now regarding the subject manner, this sounds very much MGTOW/Redpill/MRA/etc type of thing, not sure if it's intentional, but it sure paints women as evil manipulators. Sadly though, men are more often the ones guilty of a crime when engaging in a one night stand. Though it's more things like date rape, corrosion, or knowingly spreading an STD by not wearing protection, or informing their partner.

Actually, I see it as the opposite. The "Asking for it" terminology screams to me that its more a feminist "Gottcha" to try and show that were we talking about women obvious they're not deserving of sympathy and wearing slutty clothes makes them 'asking for it', but men behaving in even more unsafe ways are just poor victims.

It also seems highly judgemental of men for having one night stands and tries to somewhat imply that since they're doing this to poor women that they may 'deserve' what comes to them as a consequence.

Either way, I agree, there's some agenda here. Its just worded too weirdly for there not to be.

 

[Coruptin]

I guess I would sympathize up to understanding that these are crappy things I wouldn't want to happen to me, but I'd still say they had it coming. Convict the criminals, have them tried to the full extent of the law, and shame the victims for getting themselves into dumb situations. And, I dunno, try harder to teach children to have better judgement as to not end up like them?

 

[jlopo]

Yes, I feel sympathy for the victims in all three of those scenarios.

This is clearly intended to be a gotcha thread drawing parallels between the hypothetical male victims in the OP, and female victims of sexual assault who are often considered to be "asking for it" based on how they dressed or vulnerable positions they found themselves in. I'm just unclear on who the OP is trying to "get".

Should be obvious once the OP posts a few more times though. Stay tuned!

You guessed correctly. Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...



Ps. The woman in scenario C is fully aware she is HIV positive. Bob was HIV negative prior to having sex with her.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Return question, do you feel sorry for rape victims? since essentially you are asking the same question under varying circumstances

Are you joking? The first is just plain theft. Taking your wallet is like rape according to you?

The second is murder, which aside from also being an awful crime seems to have little to do with rape.

 

[Yan007]

Yes, I feel sympathy for the victims in all three of those scenarios.

This is clearly intended to be a gotcha thread drawing parallels between the hypothetical male victims in the OP, and female victims of sexual assault who are often considered to be "asking for it" based on how they dressed or vulnerable positions they found themselves in. I'm just unclear on who the OP is trying to "get".

Should be obvious once the OP posts a few more times though. Stay tuned!

You guessed correctly. Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...



Ps. The woman in scenario C is fully aware she is HIV positive. Bob was HIV negative prior to having sex with her.

Funny thing is you thought men would get more sympathy than women, which is never the case. Let's pretend a woman in one of your scenarios does not get sympathy, a man in the same scenario would get even less.

You also confuse sympathy with responsibility. You can be responsible for putting yourself in a bad situation and still get some or no sympathy based on how much you disregarded reality.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Yes, I feel sympathy for the victims in all three of those scenarios.

This is clearly intended to be a gotcha thread drawing parallels between the hypothetical male victims in the OP, and female victims of sexual assault who are often considered to be "asking for it" based on how they dressed or vulnerable positions they found themselves in. I'm just unclear on who the OP is trying to "get".

Should be obvious once the OP posts a few more times though. Stay tuned!

You guessed correctly. Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...



Ps. The woman in scenario C is fully aware she is HIV positive. Bob was HIV negative prior to having sex with her.

Funny thing is you thought men would get more sympathy than women, which is never the case. Let's pretend a woman in one of your scenarios does not get sympathy, a man in the same scenario would get even less.

You also confuse sympathy with responsibility. You can be responsible for putting yourself in a bad situation and still get some or no sympathy based on how much you disregarded reality.

And you can prove the man would get even less because... well nothing it seems. I'm not sure why you'd think essentially just stating your belief is supposed to be convincing.

 

[Frostbyte666]

I feel sympathy for all of them. Though in degrees the most sympathy for #1 because getting robbed is horrible and one night stands do happen, then #3 though he was constantly pushing it with the unprotected sex but not telling someone about being HIV positive is a horrible thing to do. Now #2 yes there is sympathy there since racism is completely unjustified but I can't help but think the guy was playing russian roulette since he knew all the risks for the area and personally if I was in his position I'd be more looking toward getting away from the place with my life and all extremities in place than chasing tail.

 

[the December King]

Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...

This is the Escapist, though, and a lot of the members are pretty bright bulbs (in my opinion, if not their own). The responses for the most part herein, at least in the posts I've read, have all said the same things that they would have to any sort of victims of these scenarios- predominant sympathy, with a dash of "some common sense might have avoided or at least mitigated this".

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I feel sympathy for all of them. Though in degrees the most sympathy for #1 because getting robbed is horrible and one night stands do happen, then #3 though he was constantly pushing it with the unprotected sex but not telling someone about being HIV positive is a horrible thing to do. Now #2 yes there is sympathy there since racism is completely unjustified but I can't help but think the guy was playing russian roulette since he knew all the risks for the area and personally if I was in his position I'd be more looking toward getting away from the place with my life and all extremities in place than chasing tail.

Oh those silly people, not uprooting their lives to go move somewhere else where there's likely to be horrible discrimination or becoming a one man army to end it themselves.

 

[Something Amyss]

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...

It might be a better idea to either be more transparent about such a thing. Or less transparent, as this was so badly telegraphed the wire got here before the train left the station.

If you're trying to make a point, it's probably better to be open with it. Or subtle enough that people don't immediately think you're trying to pull a fast one. Either/or. Personally, I prefer the sincerity route. Because even if this sort of gotcha works, people are unlikely to be willing to cop to rape apologetics at the time.

..though it looks like a couple of people have.

That assumes that the death of a person contains some constructive measure to the state of humanity. You might deem killing one to save another is constructive. Bit hard to do the same of killing random people to save us from an unknown quantity. A monster is found in indiscriminate slaughter, not sound calculated ideals towards positive consequence!

Hey, I'll have you know I am very discriminating when it comes to decimating humanity!

...waitasecond.

Oh those silly people, not uprooting their lives to go move somewhere else where there's likely to be horrible discrimination or becoming a one man army to end it themselves.

Especially if we are talking the segregationist south, meaning you're talking abot people not only disciriminated against but also generally lacking the money or connections to make such a change. And considering how little black folk need to do to "set off" a lot of white people NOW....

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Oh those silly people, not uprooting their lives to go move somewhere else where there's likely to be horrible discrimination or becoming a one man army to end it themselves.

Especially if we are talking the segregationist south, meaning you're talking abot people not only disciriminated against but also generally lacking the money or connections to make such a change. And considering how little black folk need to do to "set off" a lot of white people NOW....

That's exactly what I was thinking. I mean it seems to be what 2 refers to. So many problems with seriously blaming people for not just moving away in thay kind of scenario. Very short sighted and ignores financial situations, family, the state of the rest of the nation, potentially education of the victim, as well as just general available knowledge at the time in such a situation.

 

[9tailedflame]

Yes, I feel sympathy for the victims in all three of those scenarios.

This is clearly intended to be a gotcha thread drawing parallels between the hypothetical male victims in the OP, and female victims of sexual assault who are often considered to be "asking for it" based on how they dressed or vulnerable positions they found themselves in. I'm just unclear on who the OP is trying to "get".

Should be obvious once the OP posts a few more times though. Stay tuned!

You guessed correctly. Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...



Ps. The woman in scenario C is fully aware she is HIV positive. Bob was HIV negative prior to having sex with her.

I've never once in my life seen anyone treat a victim of sexual assault that way. In my limited experience, they either keep it bottled in, because they've been manipulated by the perpetrator to feel shame, or they receive sympathy and support, or people feel like they don't know if their support would be appreciated or not because they don't the person all that well. Where are you getting the idea that people just automatically assume that a victim of sexual assault deserves it? Because that's horrible, and i've never seen anyone act like that.

 

[CaitSeith]

Yes, I feel sympathy for the victims in all three of those scenarios.

This is clearly intended to be a gotcha thread drawing parallels between the hypothetical male victims in the OP, and female victims of sexual assault who are often considered to be "asking for it" based on how they dressed or vulnerable positions they found themselves in. I'm just unclear on who the OP is trying to "get".

Should be obvious once the OP posts a few more times though. Stay tuned!

You guessed correctly. Whenever a woman is raped/assaulted after getting drunk, wearing "skimpy" clothes and/or goes home with a male stranger and sometimes even a male "friend", people come out the woodwork and say that she deserves little to no sympathy and she had it coming because she should have known better than to get drunk/dress like a "slut"/go into a male's room alone. They say that it's her fault that she got raped/assaulted because she put herself in a vulnerable position.

So i decided to see if people would be sympathetic to males who get hurt/assaulted after making "irresponsible" choices like getting drunk and putting themselves in bad situations...



Ps. The woman in scenario C is fully aware she is HIV positive. Bob was HIV negative prior to having sex with her.

I've never once in my life seen anyone treat a victim of sexual assault that way. In my limited experience, they either keep it bottled in, because they've been manipulated by the perpetrator to feel shame, or they receive sympathy and support, or people feel like they don't know if their support would be appreciated or not because they don't the person all that well. Where are you getting the idea that people just automatically assume that a victim of sexual assault deserves it? Because that's horrible, and i've never seen anyone act like that.

Never? Well me neither... except in social media. Man, the things I have read...

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Where are you getting the idea that people just automatically assume that a victim of sexual assault deserves it? Because that's horrible, and I've never seen anyone act like that.

That victims of sexual assault are often put through the wringer is hardly a secret. Women have their sexual histories exhumed and gone over with a fine toothed comb, have their outfits and behavior analyzed, are accused of "making it up to ruin good men's lives", or have it implied they had it coming for putting themselves in a vulnerable position when there were men nearby, like someone left a steak out in a room full of hungry dogs. If it's men and the abuser was female, either it "couldn't have happened" or "it was secretly awesome". If the abuser is male it's either a dirty shameful secret or played for "prison rape" laughs. Both men and women have to deal with "why didn't you fight them off". Both men and women are considered compromised or 'ruined'...men have their masculinity questioned/degraded, and women become "used goods" and have their viability as a sexual product threatened. It's all very delightful.

As a result, it's believed very few sexual assaults are ever actually reported, as many victims feel like the process of reporting it, getting examined, going to trial, etc, constitutes a second assault. To say nothing of the fact that a great many of these cases are between friends/lovers/associates, that misconduct can be very difficult to prove, and rare incidences of false allegations are sensationalized and become honey to a very particular kind of bear...who go on to believe that 99% of all charges are sour grapes on behalf of vindictive fakers.

Things have improved over the last 10-15 years, but are far from perfect.

 

[Timeless Lavender]

Ummm.


I would have sympathy for them regardless of the situation. But I really do not like the way the OP was written. Next time try being more sincere with your intentions and avoid using leading questions and scenarios.