Because yes, you ARE a feminist [http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/]. All of you. Unless you're a misogynist, and in that case a horrible person.
I like that article. All humans are equal as far as I'm concerned so, yeah, I guess I'm a feminist too. Except, according to people who call themselves feminists, the fact that I'm a man with a normal attraction to women makes me a misogynist. Can one person be both?
Dictionary definitions are a wonderful thing for making a point, but they're not always entirely useful in real life. Sure, the dictionary definition of is something that, really, all people should be. It's just a shame that the term has been ruined through association with so-called feminazis, to the point where my eyes start rolling by themselves every time I hear it. I used to live with a woman whose idea of feminism was that women should always have the upper hand - not equality, but very definitely women in charge and men doing as they're told - and how it was not about 'giving rights to women', but 'taking away from men'. There could've been so many arguments, in the end I decided it probably wasn't worth it.
As mentioned by John Funk above, women are the disadvantaged group, and as such, efforts to bring about gender equality focus on bringing them up to male standards.
Well, to some extent. As my post above, I would argue that a transsexual who didn't identify with any particular gender is further disadvantaged because they don't fit with the delightful binary opposition which has persisted when considering gender.
I like that article. All humans are equal as far as I'm concerned so, yeah, I guess I'm a feminist too. Except, according to people who call themselves feminists, the fact that I'm a man with a normal attraction to women makes me a misogynist. Can one person be both?
Hey. Name one feminist who's actually said that to you, please. I've never met a feminist, or read work by a feminist, who did not entirely encourage the participation of heterosexual cis-men in the movement. Well, depending on their motivation. I have met a "I'm a feminist so you should fuck me because look at all the effort I'm putting in to lay myself down as a martyr for your gender, you thankless harpy" guy who was.. unpleasant.
I'd LOVE a game that actively and consciously presents a society where both genders (as well as transsexuals and all sexual orientations) are equal and business, politics, culture and the arts are structure such as to make such a society work. I'd also love a game that exposes and upends gender stereotypes at every possible opportunity.
I'm not sure about a game that revolves around straight-faced bringing down the patriarchy - it could easily tip into sensationalist misandry, and, being a game, end up ignoring the more nuanced points of feminism.
I like that article. All humans are equal as far as I'm concerned so, yeah, I guess I'm a feminist too. Except, according to people who call themselves feminists, the fact that I'm a man with a normal attraction to women makes me a misogynist. Can one person be both?
Hey. Name one feminist who's actually said that to you, please. I've never met a feminist, or read work by a feminist, who did not entirely encourage the participation of heterosexual cis-men in the movement. Well, depending on their motivation. I have met a "I'm a feminist so you should fuck me because look at all the effort I'm putting in to lay myself down as a martyr for your gender, you thankless harpy" guy who was.. unpleasant.
The aforementioned ex-housemate, for one. People on the street with banners in the city I used to live in, when I walked by with the woman I was dating at the time (to which she turned around and told them to get a grip, much to their disgust). People on the internet, when I've previously commented on things relating to feminism ("you're a man, you're a misogynist by default"). Also, note that I specified "people who call themselves feminists", to imply that I'm aware that these don't necessarily represent the majority.
Honestly, that (and "prove it!"-style replies) is why I usually just don't bother, preferring instead to give a generic "all humans are equal" if pressed on the matter. I know my views, apparently they fit with the dictionary definition of feminism, but apparently I'm in the wrong whenever I talk about it. Meh.
And, to be honest, that guy you described just sounds like an A-grade moron.
As mentioned by John Funk above, women are the disadvantaged group, and as such, efforts to bring about gender equality focus on bringing them up to male standards.
Well, to some extent. As my post above, I would argue that a transsexual who didn't identify with any particular gender is further disadvantaged because they don't fit with the delightful binary opposition which has persisted when considering gender.
That's true, yes, intersectionality should have been mentioned before.
[small]And, incidently, transexuals are currently quite the sticking point in feminism. You have the ones calling for tolerance and understanding for all and others (such as radfems and/or seperatists) objecting to people who grew up as men (and possibly biologically still are) entering their spaces and speaking on their behalf. I can strongly sympathise with both viewpoints.[/small]
Labyrinth said:
Well, depending on their motivation. I have met a "I'm a feminist so you should fuck me because look at all the effort I'm putting in to lay myself down as a martyr for your gender, you thankless harpy" guy who was.. unpleasant.
Just the one? You see that shit all the time, the tossers who come visit feminist blogs, supposedly agree "except for this one thing", go on to lecture women about being women, and are hurt by the lack of overwhelming adoration/cookies they receive. Tends not to end well.
Because yes, you ARE a feminist [http://tomatonation.com/culture-and-criticism/yes-you-are/]. All of you. Unless you're a misogynist, and in that case a horrible person.
I like that article. All humans are equal as far as I'm concerned so, yeah, I guess I'm a feminist too. Except, according to people who call themselves feminists, the fact that I'm a man with a normal attraction to women makes me a misogynist. Can one person be both?
Dictionary definitions are a wonderful thing for making a point, but they're not always entirely useful in real life. Sure, the dictionary definition of is something that, really, all people should be. It's just a shame that the term has been ruined through association with so-called feminazis, to the point where my eyes start rolling by themselves every time I hear it. I used to live with a woman whose idea of feminism was that women should always have the upper hand - not equality, but very definitely women in charge and men doing as they're told - and how it was not about 'giving rights to women', but 'taking away from men'. There could've been so many arguments, in the end I decided it probably wasn't worth it.
In any given movement there will always be those who decide that the other side is beneath them. Black Panthers in the civil rights movement, people who insult heterosexuals as "filthy Breeders" in the modern day gay rights movement, etc. Does this make the cause itself unworthy or cancel out the efforts of those who actually *don't* hate/look down on the Other? Of course not. Very few feminists are also misandrists (and please, use that word instead of "feminazi," a word coined by Rush Limbaugh and his ilk), and your personal experience with someone who was clearly off her rails - and would likely be shouted down by any female feminist worth her salt - should not undermine the rest of what is a very valid and very *necessary* movement.
Besides, for all we need to deal with rabid misandrists, women need to deal with institutionalized sexism, movements trying to regulate their reproductive organs, pick-up artists, and anti-feminists who are openly (and proudly) chauvinists, to name a very scant few. Frankly, the amount of shit we have to deal with ain't anywhere close to theirs.
I'm all up for a game with 'feminist overtones'. Most modern games are very macismized, and having a game more feminine heavy would add flavour and something new and benificial to the gaming industry.
As long as the feminism doesn't aim to forcefully shove it down you're throut that women are better than men.
The reason i've never really liked the idea of feminism is becasue i've unfortunately learnt about it through die hard feminists who actively hate on men and believe that every man on the planet is a cheating, degrading, lazy scum bag of a human being and it's biases like that that casue a 'feminist overtone' society to be such a big thing.
Just the one? You see that shit all the time, the tossers who come visit feminist blogs, supposedly agree "except for this one thing", go on to lecture women about being women, and are hurt by the lack of overwhelming adoration/cookies they receive. Tends not to end well.
FF X-2 count? i maybe got half way through it, then stopped...i dont know why........ah well.
theres not much point for me to play is there? cuz i'd probably just play something else..for times sake.
In any given movement there will always be those who decide that the other side is beneath them. Black Panthers in the civil rights movement, people who insult heterosexuals as "filthy Breeders" in the modern day gay rights movement, etc. Does this make the cause itself unworthy or cancel out the efforts of those who actually *don't* hate/look down on the Other? Of course not. Very few feminists are also misandrists (and please, use that word instead of "feminazi," a word coined by Rush Limbaugh and his ilk), and your personal experience with someone who was clearly off her rails - and would likely be shouted down by any female feminist worth her salt - should not undermine the rest of what is a very valid and very *necessary* movement.
Oh, absolutely. I get that, same as any other case where the extremists don't necessarily represent the majority. I was really just explaining why I generally avoid discussing it. I probably should've, erm, avoided discussing it.
I've decided to take advantage of the sudden wave of threads debating feminism to cover a topic I've been wrestling with personally over the Summer.
You see, I'm developing a game. The specifics aren't that important, but the basic premise is that you are a fairy, fighting in a chaotic guerilla war for control over a vital resource. Since I'm a writer at heart, it's very story-intensive and character-driven. Also, I pride myself on challenging conventions, so I decided that (rather fittingly, I think) fairy society would have inverted gender roles. In other words, women are more likely to be found in the role of scientists, doctors, soldiers, corporate executives, law enforcers, etc. and men are more likely to be found in the role of nurses and teachers and fashion models and househusbands. The idea is that it would mirror contemporary society, so while those conventions are becoming outdated in the game world, there would still be a skew (and especially since the game takes place in a military setting, the cast is about 75% female).
This is an early optional conversation you can have with a male teammate. It's actually the first mention of fairy society and very succinctly sums things up.
Terra: Hm, it's unusual to see a guy in the military.
Rick: You got a problem with that?
T: No, it's just... interesting, is all.
R: You know, in human society, males have always been the dominant gender.
T: Huh. There must be far less conflict amongst humankind in that case.
R: Nah, it's actually about the same.
Don't get me wrong, the game isn't "about" feminism. It's just part of the world-building. I'd address it mostly through understatement and playing with the player's expectations. No heavy-handed lectures or anything. Personally, I think "feminism" is a bit of a misnomer: I think it would be more constructive if feminists referred to themselves as a more gender-neutral term like "supporter of equal rights between sexes". I think that would, ironically, be more in the spirit of what feminism stands for.
In any case, feminism is one of the themes I've chosen to explore throughout the game. I'm just wondering what people's initial reactions to that concept are.
On a similar note, how would people react to 75% of the cast being female? Do you think guys will be turned off by it being "too girly"? That whole My Little Pony craze was what really convinced me my game idea might work, but there's a difference between a guilty pleasure kid's show and a game that expects you to take it seriously. Like, what if Mass Effect or Deus Ex had a 75% female cast?
I really depends, like what do you mean by feminism? That both genders are equal? Cause by the sounds of the conversation that would never happen. I mean really, you want the one of the few men on you're team to instantly come off douchey? If you mean equating them, then yes I'd definitely give it a shot, that'd be refreshing.
Or do you mean just reverse misogyny? Then no, i probably wouldn't play it. I really don't like games where others are discriminated based off gender or race.
I wouldn't be able to play with it without rolling my eyes. Feminism is a good thing, but as someone who already treats women like equal people and who has heard all the feminist arguments already, hearing it again just causes me to go into mental shut-out mode. It's the same when my sister tells me I'm immature or my mom tells me I don't call enough (or at all). I've heard it all before.
Based on that little conversation, it looks good to me. Touch on the topic and point out the differences, but don't beat your audience over the head with it. There are a few stories and things like that, and they are just really shallow and annoying to read. It's almost as though the writer is just screaming in your ear "GUYS ARE BAD, GIRLS CAN RUN THINGS SO MUCH BETTER. GET IT? GET IT?!??!?!?" Because really, that's what the extreme ends of feminism are. It's not about equality, it's about male oppression and revenge over what's happened in the past. But if you make having a predominantly female cast the status quot, nobody will be the wiser. Only address why if you must. I mean, they never have to explain a cast that's mostly male, right? It's just natural.
So I think you're right in that saying it's "feminism" is a misnomer. You're simply exploring the idea of a society which matriarchs or neutrality are more common than patriarchs. Perhaps you can seek inspiration from real instances of this, like lions, for example. The male lions are pretty lazy; they lie around, sleep, mate, and get into dominance fights sometimes. The female lions are the ones who raise the young and bring in the food. So good luck, it looks like you're onto something here
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