Poll: Would you play a game with feminist overtones?

[thefrizzlefry]

I mean, if it's done well, and it's espousing actual feminist doctrine instead of the misandrist, vaguely anti-sex views of the radical feminists, then I'm all for it. If it's a good game, even better.

 

[Baneat]

Wouldn't this be masculinism?

 

[dyre]

If by feminist you mean women's rights, yeah, sure, though it'd have to be a game that's actually fun/interesting. A game centered completely around a political movement seems like it wouldn't be very fun, though if it was the background conflict that moves the plot, like augmentation or racism in DEHR and Witcher, it could definitely be something I'd check out.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

It's really hard to say without seeing anything from the actual game, but it just sounds like you're just replacing males with females and vice versa. Sorry, but that doesn't really sound interesting to me. If you want that in your game, I got no problem, but it doesn't sound like a good enough idea to hold a game up on its own.

Of course not. Like I said, the game isn't about feminism, it's just one of the themes explored in the story. The gender politics of fairy society doesn't even feature much on the surface, it's more to give depth to the world.

However, this thread isn't about my game, it's about feminism in games. Believe me, it's taking a lot of restraint not to launch into a 10,000 word treatise about the plot and characters and gameplay mechanics and set pieces I have planned. If I was to express it in a painfully condensed equation, I would say it's like classic X-Com base management + Deus Ex emergent gameplay + Kingdom Hearts combat, except as a 2D action RPG. It'll probably end up as a horrible Frankenstein monster, but at least I'll have fun and learn some stuff.

 

[SuperSuperSuperGuy]

I don't see why it would matter if it makes sense in context and the game is fun.

I really don't have a problem with feminism. It's the straw feminists that give the name a bad connotation, and as long as the game isn't too anvilicious it should be fine.

 

[Nieroshai]

I have played Heavenly Sword. I was not bothered. Except for the part where she said the gods didn't exist RIGHT after using their supernatural power to erradicate an entire army. I thought the game was good overall.

 

[LiftYourSkinnyFists]

To quote Eric Cartman, Jokingly It sounds "God damned gay as hell".

Go ahead, I won't play it because it doesn't sound interesting to me, by all means carry on.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

I would play -a- game with feminist overtones, but this one sounds like it's a lot less overtones and a lot more shoving it in your face. Plus, it's not really feminist to reverse the gender roles. You're just exchanging a patriarchy for a matriarchy, not really the goal of the feminist movement.

PrinceOfShapeir just said something really important. Keeping oppression and power imbalances based on gender is not feminist, even if you just reverse who is on top and who is on bottom. So the society you described isn't feminist.

You're both misunderstanding. The game is not supposed to be realising some sort of feminist paradise. It's just supposed to subtly explore themes of feminism by reversing the genders of those involved and keeping almost everything else true to our current social climate.

Which themes of feminism, exactly, are you exploring?
What PrinceOfShapeir and I are saying is that just reversing gender roles of current society by itself isn't necessarily feminist.
What is your experience with feminism? What is your theoretical background on this? Which wave are you thinking of exploring?
There's a difference between Betty Friedan and bell hooks, between Gloria Steinem and Julia Serano, between Gloria Anzaldua and Mary Daly.

Well, creative writing is an emergent process. You generally don't treat it like writing a scholarly essay: you let the story go where it wants, and you layer it with intellectual meaning and factual details later. At least, that's how I write.

As for my views on feminism: again, that's something that emerges as you go. A true writer's goal is to write the "truth", not further some sort of political agenda. The truth will always be tinted and biased by one's own experiences -- that's inevitable -- but I think the best way to write about anything is to simply present things as you perceive them, trying to stay self-aware and thoughtful as you go. That's what I was trained to do as an anthropologist.

The inversion of gender roles is more of a narrative device than a grand gesture of feminism. As an exploration of feminism itself, I intend to leave it up to the audience themselves to decide things.

(I'm not sure if any of that really answers your questions. It's 4am and I'm starting to lose my ability to brain.)

 

[AkaDad]

I'll play any game if it's fun.

BTW, anyone who equates feminism with the Nazis shouldn't be taken seriously. It's a slap in the face to everyone and their families who suffered under the Nazi regime.

 

[Imperium9990]

Of course I would play it. Why wouldn't I?

 

[crazyfoxdemon]

If its fun.

 

[DanDeFool]

If by "feminist overtones" you don't mean a game where all the male characters are either insensitive, exploitative, unfeeling, misogynistic rapists OR wussy, ineffectual, mama's boys who the female characters treat like doormats.

That sort of thing is not feminism; it's misandry.

What I would like to see is more media in general where the female characters are interesting and fully-formed, and actually have meaningful interactions with the rest of the cast beyond the usual love-interest, macguffin, victim of abuse/kidnapping/rape/etc.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If by "feminist overtones" you don't mean a game where all the male characters are either insensitive, exploitative, unfeeling, misogynistic rapists OR wussy, ineffectual, mama's boys who the female characters treat like doormats.

That sort of thing is not feminism; it's misandry.

It also wouldn't be terribly new or original, you could lump any number of modernish games under that description. Though, I would hardly call it "misandry", as they are made for a male dominated audience.

What I would like to see is more media in general where the female characters are interesting and fully-formed, and actually have meaningful interactions with the rest of the cast beyond the usual love-interest, macguffin, victim of abuse/kidnapping/rape/etc.

Actual female characters? Don't hold your breath, people have been calling for this for years, with noticeably limited success.

However, yes, that'd be the best way to create a "feminist" game, where you had actual characters, and not the usual wish fulfillment macho bullshit we get lumbered with.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

Meh, I've played through my fair share of games with face-palmingly mysoginistic overtones on the basis of solid gameplay, so I definately wouldn't have a problem with a game that expresses sentiments of gender equality so long as the gameplay is solid.

 

[trooper6]

Well, creative writing is an emergent process. You generally don't treat it like writing a scholarly essay: you let the story go where it wants, and you layer it with intellectual meaning and factual details later. At least, that's how I write.

As for my views on feminism: again, that's something that emerges as you go. A true writer's goal is to write the "truth", not further some sort of political agenda. The truth will always be tinted and biased by one's own experiences -- that's inevitable -- but I think the best way to write about anything is to simply present things as you perceive them, trying to stay self-aware and thoughtful as you go. That's what I was trained to do as an anthropologist.

The inversion of gender roles is more of a narrative device than a grand gesture of feminism. As an exploration of feminism itself, I intend to leave it up to the audience themselves to decide things.

(I'm not sure if any of that really answers your questions. It's 4am and I'm starting to lose my ability to brain.)

It just sounds to me like your game is about exploring gender roles...but exploring gender roles isn't necessarily feminism. So I've yet to see any indication from you, as an artist, that your work actually is going to have anything to do with feminism. Which is also fine. But just talking about men and women isn't the same thing as feminism.

 

[Timedraven 117]

I've decided to take advantage of the sudden wave of threads debating feminism to cover a topic I've been wrestling with personally over the Summer.

You see, I'm developing a game. The specifics aren't that important, but the basic premise is that you are a fairy, fighting in a chaotic guerilla war for control over a vital resource. Since I'm a writer at heart, it's very story-intensive and character-driven. Also, I pride myself on challenging conventions, so I decided that (rather fittingly, I think) fairy society would have inverted gender roles. In other words, women are more likely to be found in the role of scientists, doctors, soldiers, corporate executives, law enforcers, etc. and men are more likely to be found in the role of nurses and teachers and fashion models and househusbands. The idea is that it would mirror contemporary society, so while those conventions are becoming outdated in the game world, there would still be a skew (and especially since the game takes place in a military setting, the cast is about 75% female).

Spoiler: Here's an example.

This is an early optional conversation you can have with a male teammate. It's actually the first mention of fairy society and very succinctly sums things up.
Terra: Hm, it's unusual to see a guy in the military.
Rick: You got a problem with that?
T: No, it's just... interesting, is all.
R: You know, in human society, males have always been the dominant gender.
T: Huh. There must be far less conflict amongst humankind in that case.
R: Nah, it's actually about the same.

Don't get me wrong, the game isn't "about" feminism. It's just part of the world-building. I'd address it mostly through understatement and playing with the player's expectations. No heavy-handed lectures or anything. Personally, I think "feminism" is a bit of a misnomer: I think it would be more constructive if feminists referred to themselves as a more gender-neutral term like "supporter of equal rights between sexes". I think that would, ironically, be more in the spirit of what feminism stands for.

In any case, feminism is one of the themes I've chosen to explore throughout the game. I'm just wondering what people's initial reactions to that concept are.

On a similar note, how would people react to 75% of the cast being female? Do you think guys will be turned off by it being "too girly"? That whole My Little Pony craze was what really convinced me my game idea might work, but there's a difference between a guilty pleasure kid's show and a game that expects you to take it seriously. Like, what if Mass Effect or Deus Ex had a 75% female cast?

I would be interested slap on the graphic pack for dragon age and yuogot a triple A game sir.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

It just sounds to me like your game is about exploring gender roles...but exploring gender roles isn't necessarily feminism. So I've yet to see any indication from you, as an artist, that your work actually is going to have anything to do with feminism. Which is also fine. But just talking about men and women isn't the same thing as feminism.

Maybe our definitions of feminism are different. It sounds like you've done the research, so I guess I'll defer to your wisdom until I know better. But in my mind, making a game with a 75% female cast, with a female main character and female antagonists (without it being vaguely exploitative like Tomb Raider or WET), would at the very least have something to do with feminism, even if pushing a particular feminist agenda isn't really my goal.

What I would like to see is more media in general where the female characters are interesting and fully-formed, and actually have meaningful interactions with the rest of the cast beyond the usual love-interest, macguffin, victim of abuse/kidnapping/rape/etc.

Actual female characters? Don't hold your breath, people have been calling for this for years, with noticeably limited success.

To be fair, good writing in general has had limited success in the gaming industry. Actual interesting and fully-formed male characters aren't much easier to find.

 

[lacktheknack]

Feminism would be awesome! All kinds of powerful/hilarious situations could come out of that!

Now, if we're talking anti-male sentiments (read: post-modern feminism), then I probably would ignore it hard.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Maybe our definitions of feminism are different. It sounds like you've done the research, so I guess I'll defer to your wisdom until I know better. But in my mind, making a game with a 75% female cast, with a female main character and female antagonists (without it being vaguely exploitative like Tomb Raider or WET), would at the very least have something to do with feminism, even if pushing a particular feminist agenda isn't really my goal.

More or less, yeah.

To be fair, good writing in general has had limited success in the gaming industry. Actual interesting and fully-formed male characters aren't much easier to find.

That's true, however I'd say there are still many more actual male characters, if only because there are many more attempts to create them.