Poll: Would you take a pill that makes you bisexual?

[darkfox85]

snip

Okay this was a pretty good post. I?ll level with you as much as I can. I?ll take out choice cuts here and there.

I don?t mind about the complication. I respect most people feel very differently, but if I?m being honest most reasons people have provided against this pill seem to me to be all the more reason to take the pill. It?s pretty clear I?m looking at this thought experiment radically different to most others. Heh-heh. I know I seem a little bananas. ?You don?t like X. You have no interesting in X. Here?s a pill to make you like X.? But there?s nothing to suggest I have to hook up with everyone and everything. I?ll lazily say ?broader horizons? again and just leave it at that. Do you think that trivial? Think what you could learn...

Being attracted to people can be a CHORE sometimes.

I feel that this is one of the best reasons not to take it. Maybe in this sense we might ?loose? a sense of well being. So there is *something* to loose. But this reminds me of something else:

I did actually read large parts of this thread and one poster put forward the idea of a pill that makes you asexual. I thought this was interesting as well. It would make life much calmer and you could focus on getting some real work done. There are advantages to this, but I don?t want to take my misery for granted. A simple life? I dunno, sounds sad and boring. Enhance emotions vs Status Quo vs Kill emotions.

[Facetious] Maybe I?ll take both pills. See what happens. [/Facetious]

Or do you see a lot of guys making out in front of you as part of your job or daily life, to the point where you're constantly getting grossed out all the time?

Nnnnno. That?s a really odd thing to say. Also, I am indifferent to all homosexual activity and I?m confused you presupposed I?m grossed out by others.

You JUST SAID in your post that it DOES make you feel grossed out.

NO I did NOT. You even went to the trouble of quoting me again and still you didn?t see it. There?s a distinction between what *I* would do and what does or doesn?t make me feel uncomfortable, and what two OTHER people do. Other people?s actions don?t gross me out. It?s their life and I don?t care what they do and I have absolutely no right. But my own actions, or the thought of certain hypothetical actions, do make me uncomfortable. Let?s read it again: ?There is nothing aesthetically appealing to *me*, and the thought of [ME] dating another man makes *me* feel grossed out.? See? For me it?s personal, but you seem to be reading me as having these feelings intra-personally.

If you've been arguing in here all day, I didn't see any of that. Your post suddenly appeared between my post and some other peoples' and I assumed you were jumping into our conversation or else responding to the OP.

I have only just joined and I was not responding to you. Simply having my two cents. This is a busy forum and it might be for the best you don?t assume people are talking to you. Not to mention, the poster you mentioned came *after* me. I?d left the thread by then.

independance VS connectedness

From my POV it?s all or nothing.

[P]eople are risk-averse in general

Very, very strongly disagree with that. Look at our society. Look at your own life. I?ll wager most of the best things came about with risk. Why not take just one more?

 

[WarpZone]

You make some good points, but I think you're underestimating the extent to which risk aversion influences the daily behavior of average people. There have been controlled studies done on this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_aversion

It should be noted that risk-aversion and risk-seeking are both equally biased behaviors; it's just that risk-aversion appears more frequently when they try to measure it.

I suspect you are a particularly risk-seeking individual. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm only pointing out that scientists have studied this and it appears that you are in the minority. This doesn't make you wrong, but hopefully it will give you some insight into where resistance comes from when you talk to people who are closer to the baseline "average."

NO I did NOT. You even went to the trouble of quoting me again and still you didn?t see it. There?s a distinction between what *I* would do and what does or doesn?t make me feel uncomfortable, and what two OTHER people do. Other people?s actions don?t gross me out. It?s their life and I don?t care what they do and I have absolutely no right. But my own actions, or the thought of certain hypothetical actions, do make me uncomfortable. Let?s read it again: ?There is nothing aesthetically appealing to *me*, and the thought of [ME] dating another man makes *me* feel grossed out.? See? For me it?s personal, but you seem to be reading me as having these feelings intra-personally.

I see the distinction now. If that's true, then you should be commended for your objectivity. I should stress that I agree that it is not morally right to be grossed out at other people just for being different. In a perfect world, nobody would feel grossed out by what someone else chooses to do with their body. Also, I can't speak for anybody else here, it is possible I deviate from the baseline and everything I'm about to say exposes me as a really weird outlier, with experiences nobody else can possibly relate to. If that's the case, I apologize in advance for contributing to the "noise" around this issue.

But when I watch somebody doing something that would gross me out if I did it, I generally feel grossed out by proxy. It's like if you saw a burn victim, you would want to look away or wince or something because JESUS CHRIST that looks PAINFUL. It's the reason people tended to panic and freak out when they saw 2 Girls 1 Cup for the first time. We *react* to people doing disgusting things in front of us. It's a reflex, rooted in empathy. And we're still trying to understand it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

Is it offensive to express that disgust? Yes, of course it is! Does this reflex conflict with what we believe to be morally right? It can. Does it follow that we should suppress this reflex or pretend it's not there? I'm not convinced that's the case. It's visceral and instinctive, not the kind of thing that responds to logic and reason. Probably the best thing to do is to be aware of it when it happens, go "oh, that's just my caveman brain reacting to two guys kissing," and move on. Say "Yeah, I'm happy for you guys," out loud, because it's *true.* But it's the rational part of your brain that believes that. The instinctive part of your brain is wired to panic the first time it sees something scary or gross.

If your brain really is capable of doing both at once, being grossed out at the thought of you yourself kissing a guy, yet completely unfazed when you watch somebody *else* kiss a guy, that's surprising to me. I'd be interested to know if you've always had that level of separation between yourself and other people, or if it's something you learned?

 

[darkfox85]

I think you're underestimating the extent to which risk aversion influences the daily behavior of average people. There have been controlled studies done on this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_aversion

I *want* to say you overestimate risk aversion in this context and with this particular thought experiment, but then again, surly more people would be on my side if that were true. I will say that however many pitfalls we may or may not avoid, the best things come about due to risk. However hard they may be.

I suspect you are a particularly risk-seeking individual.

TBH (and to make things more complicated) I?m really not like that at all. I usually ?err to the side of caution,? but for a more intimate look at me personally, this carefulness is an aspect of myself I despise, and an aspect I try to challenge.

I can?t say how much of my subconscious is influenced by that but as far as I can tell with this particular thought experiment, I just don?t see the risk in the first place for this to be a factor. Make of that what you will, but I ultimately think this line of enquiry is a large red herring as to why people won?t take the pill.

I should stress that I agree that it is not morally right to be grossed out at other people just for being different.

Hey, people are only people. I don?t *really* feel this way. After all, no ones perfect. So long as the person?s actions doesn?t give cause to harm and their voting behaviour isn?t purely driven by ?nasty other people,? I don?t hold anyone to such high standards. Maybe I should, maybe I?m right not to. In any case, let?s see where society goes in a decade hence and I?ll reconsider. But I?m getting ahead of myself. You already agree with this, I?m just covering my points.

But when I watch somebody doing something that would gross me out if I did it, I generally feel grossed out by proxy. It's like if you saw a burn victim, you would want to look away or wince.

I like the use of [by proxy.] I think that sums things up well. It tints the reaction with a certain type of empathy. But even so, let?s look at the reactions case by case. Someone who?s survived fire is very different ? chances are good they didn?t *want* to be on fire, they posed a threat to the local environment (and my personal safety) and the emergency services were required. Big emotions flying thick and fast through our minds. I know you may?ve chosen an extreme example and I?m just pickin? nits but I think the circumstances apply to all emotional things we react to.

And yet, having just said that, we should always try to treat these folk like we do anyone else. But you better believe I ain?t taking no moral high ground here either. This is tough stuff for mortal men and our obsolete human psychology. I?ll just say that each different reaction of disgust to different things should be taken one at a time, and this is to say nothing of the old ?everything aesthetic is relative? chestnut.

[2 Girls 1 Cup] for the first time. We *react* to people doing disgusting things in front of us. It's a reflex, rooted in empathy. And we're still trying to understand it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley [...] Is it offensive to express that disgust? Yes, of course it is! Does this reflex conflict with what we believe to be morally right? It can. Does it follow that we should suppress this reflex or pretend it's not there? I'm not convinced that's the case.

And I agree. And there?s nothing wrong with extreme reactions. They?re involuntary. I just don?t really see the big deal in this particular instance. And I can?t tell you why. I?m just a Left-Wing fella. There?s no mental handicap, no tragic amputee victims, no birth defects, just two dudes.

"[O]h, that's just my caveman brain reacting to two guys kissing,"

Caveman? You think (this specific) reaction(s) are innate? That?s a rickety bridge to cross for sure. I?m more inclined to put my money on societal conditioning (and one big one in particular.) The uncanny valley? Definitely innate, but with two people of your gender from a heterosexual POV... I dunno. This is very controversial stuff.

If your brain really is capable of doing both at once, being grossed out at the thought of you yourself kissing a guy, yet completely unfazed when you watch somebody *else* kiss a guy, that's surprising to me. I'd be interested to know if you've always had that level of separation between yourself and other people, or if it's something you learned?

I really didn?t think it was a big deal. But now you mention it, I?d be interested myself :-/