Poll: Wow...... Just wow......

[zehydra]

Feminism teaches its students to find problems where none exist.

I think it'd be more accurate to say "Certain feminists teach people to find problems where none exist". Feminism as an ideal is purely about equality, but some people use it to push their own biases.

A little like how Christianity (as well as Islam and most other religions) teaches love, forgiveness and acceptance, yet some people use it to push their own bigotry on others. If you go by the Bible's depiction of Jesus, he'd be ashamed of a hell of a lot of people who call themselves Christian. But that doesn't stop them.

The people you describe are in the minority by a long shot. It's just unfortunate that those kinds of people are always very vocal with their opinions. They are also often the kind to throw up the "I am a feminist" line as if it automatically means they cannot be sexist or zealous in their beliefs. Which gives feminism as a whole a bad name.

The people I'm describing are the professors of Women/Gender/Sexuality studies at universities. The one's who are in positions of authority.

Feminism wants to be about equality, but ultimately falls flat.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Nice to see the hatred of feminists really coming out in this thread. Way to prove that sexism isn't a problem in gaming. Only it is because you all think this guy has a point.

Nobody has even had a go at Bioshock Infinite because it's a good example of a game that isn't sexist. Look how easy it is to make a game that doesn't make women look like useless idiots and GASP they don't have to be hideous man-women like you all seem to fear.

Good job giving this sexist ''journalist'' page views.

 

[Legion]

Feminism teaches its students to find problems where none exist.

I think it'd be more accurate to say "Certain feminists teach people to find problems where none exist". Feminism as an ideal is purely about equality, but some people use it to push their own biases.

A little like how Christianity (as well as Islam and most other religions) teaches love, forgiveness and acceptance, yet some people use it to push their own bigotry on others. If you go by the Bible's depiction of Jesus, he'd be ashamed of a hell of a lot of people who call themselves Christian. But that doesn't stop them.

The people you describe are in the minority by a long shot. It's just unfortunate that those kinds of people are always very vocal with their opinions. They are also often the kind to throw up the "I am a feminist" line as if it automatically means they cannot be sexist or zealous in their beliefs. Which gives feminism as a whole a bad name.

The people I'm describing are the professors of Women/Gender/Sexuality studies at universities. The one's who are in positions of authority.

Feminism wants to be about equality, but ultimately falls flat.

I see what you mean, but my point still stands. Those people are using feminism to push their own ideals. They may have authority in regards to their teaching positions, but they do not have authority in regards to feminism. Or in other words, their views do not represent feminism as a whole, and so it is not really fair to make a blanket statement against feminism as a whole.

It's like hating all North Koreans because of Kim Jong Un. He may be in a position of authority, but he does not speak for them or their views.

Nice to see the hatred of feminists really coming out in this thread. Way to prove that sexism isn't a problem in gaming. Only it

Saying there is a "problem with sexism in gaming" is as valid as saying there is a "problem with man-haters in feminism". While both are true to an extent, they are nothing more than sweeping statements painting an entire group of diverse people with the same brush.

You would not accept people outright claiming the latter, so why do you think it's okay to say the former?

Only it is because you all think this guy has a point.

"You all."

Really? Everybody? Despite the majority of the posts pointing out that it is childish satire?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Erm no that would be in I said 'All gamers are sexist' which I didn't. I said 'There is a problem with sexism in gaming' Can you really say with a straight face that there isn't... I doubt it. Yet people sit here and ridicule feminism for pointing it out.

 

[Mikeyfell]

First thing that popped into my head when I read that article: PPPFFFFHHAHAHAHAHA!

Let's just create an arbitrary third gender and populate it with everyone who thinks anything is sexist and just call them inferior to the two main genders?

Is that a happy middle ground people?


Especially the fifth point. That was fucking hilarious.
Especially since you can make that argument about any game.
Gordan Freeman should have been a woman. I mean let's face it people the only reason Gordan is a dude is so his name wouldn't be 5 syllables long!


If you want to make a deliberately bad argument to... uh... I don't know. Prove that there is a point you could have been making? If that's what that article was supposed to be about.... At least make good bad arguments.

 

[Legion]

Yet you all sit here and ridicule feminism for pointing it out.

Again with the "You all". The "Us Vs Them" mentality, despite the fact that the vast majority of responses to this thread have pointed out that it is poor satire. Very little feminist bashing, very little people taking it seriously.

Not to mention that if you bothered to actually read what I write half of the time you'd see that I defend feminism on many occasions. Including the reply you quoted.

But of course making it sound as though I am "a part of the problem" must make it a lot easier to automatically dismiss anything that I say.

EDIT: Nice to see you edited out the "You all" part without mentioning it.

*snip*

It was supposed to be satirical, mocking how if you really want to, you can find an issue with anything.

 

[Xanadu84]

I first noticed that I wasn't sure if the article was playing it straight or satirizing the points being made.

The second thing I noticed was that they used the same friggin Anita Sarkeesian straw man that a good 90% of her detractors seems to use.

And lastly, I noticed that all the points were kind of...dumb. Maybe they were intentionally supposed to be dumb as a criticism of Tropes versus Women but frankly, it's a rather obvious and cynical straw man argument.

 

[zehydra]

Feminism teaches its students to find problems where none exist.

I think it'd be more accurate to say "Certain feminists teach people to find problems where none exist". Feminism as an ideal is purely about equality, but some people use it to push their own biases.

A little like how Christianity (as well as Islam and most other religions) teaches love, forgiveness and acceptance, yet some people use it to push their own bigotry on others. If you go by the Bible's depiction of Jesus, he'd be ashamed of a hell of a lot of people who call themselves Christian. But that doesn't stop them.

The people you describe are in the minority by a long shot. It's just unfortunate that those kinds of people are always very vocal with their opinions. They are also often the kind to throw up the "I am a feminist" line as if it automatically means they cannot be sexist or zealous in their beliefs. Which gives feminism as a whole a bad name.

The people I'm describing are the professors of Women/Gender/Sexuality studies at universities. The one's who are in positions of authority.

Feminism wants to be about equality, but ultimately falls flat.

I see what you mean, but my point still stands. Those people are using feminism to push their own ideals. They may have authority in regards to their teaching positions, but they do not have authority in regards to feminism. Or in other words, their views do not represent feminism as a whole, and so it is not really fair to make a blanket statement against feminism as a whole.

It's like hating all North Koreans because of Kim Jong Un. He may be in a position of authority, but he does not speak for them or their views.

Actually, they DO have authority with regards to feminism. They teach young feminists how to be feminists.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

EDIT: Nice to see you edited out the "You all" part without mentioning it.

I edited it because I thought it was the wrong thing to say before you even posted.

The fact that you want to sit and argue semantics rather than anything pertinent says a lot though.

 

[Movitz]

I don't get it. The person behind the article seemed to made it clear that he wasn't serious, but was it supposed to be funny?

 

[Legion]

EDIT: Nice to see you edited out the "You all" part without mentioning it.

I edited it because I thought it was the wrong thing to say before you even posted.

The fact that you want to sit and argue semantics rather than anything pertinent says a lot though.

The part about most people not posting anti-feminist comments, but rather mentioning it was a crap article is not pertinent? I consider it to be a pretty valid response to your "This thread is full of anti feminism".

But yet gain, you ignore most of what I say, as it makes it much easier to dismiss the other parts of my comments.

Actually, they DO have authority with regards to feminism. They teach young feminists how to be feminists.

I was speaking in an official sense. Feminism isn't like religion where there are appointed people who have the right to tell others what to do. They can preach their own ideas, but the people they teach are free to ignore them and still call themselves a feminist.

It's not like they can be "kicked out" of feminism for not following that persons beliefs.

 

[ABLb0y]

So... Is it me, or does point number one basically imply 'Only women can be good, caring parents and men are physically incapable of such a thing'?

 

[JagermanXcell]

The point of a satire is to be clever and witty.
This just feels like wasted article space.

 

[major_chaos]

Nobody has even had a go at Bioshock Infinite because it's a good example of a game that isn't sexist. Look how easy it is to make a game that doesn't make women look like useless idiots and GASP they don't have to be hideous man-women like you all seem to fear.

Really? because Elizabeth seems like something that Anita would paint as very far from good. She has large breasts and shows off a rather large amount of cleavage, and seems from what I have observed of the game to be almost totally helpless without Booker to do the actual work, her primary power being to occasionally nab items from the convince dimension. I'm also fairly sure what sets the game in motion is Booker being sent to rescue her which seems like it would go firmly in to the distressed damsel trope. And then there is the whole issue where Booker gets to be on the cover despite being arguably less important to the plot and almost totally lacking a personality simply because he is male. All that said, I don't personally think Bioshock is sexist, but I don't think I have ever found a game sexist. It just seems like the kind of thing that would piss off sarkeesian.

Wow... for a second there I thought this was a real Anita article. It sure looks like what I would expect from the person who tried to paint Bastion of all things as sexist for amazingly stupid reasons.

Wait what? Why would she think Bastion is sexist? I am honestly curious.

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml , basicly it has to do with the way the only female character goes largely unnamed and lacks a defined personality or something to that effect, completely missing the part where that was true of absolutely everyone in Bastion.

 

[mbarker]

I`m not to sure why there`s all of this hate for Anita Sarkeesian so if someone can fill me in it would be much appreciated.

The article does make some intresting conversation points, but I don`t think it brings up any issues that have to be addressed. The metrix and stats are most likely out of date but Levine said him self he doesn`t market to people who are going to buy the game. It`s designed to capture the attention of frat boys who only play COD and BF. Apparently they are forcing the game industry to make idiot decisions.

 

[Drauger]

I'm enjoying the reaction in this forum XD, seriously can't we read a little bit before trashing something ?XD

Ummm can you really apply this logic to every videogame? it's like the hawkeye intiative, anyone cares to do a annita initiative?

 

[TAGM]

EDIT: Nice to see you edited out the "You all" part without mentioning it.

I edited it because I thought it was the wrong thing to say before you even posted.

The fact that you want to sit and argue semantics rather than anything pertinent says a lot though.

You really didn't catch the problem, did you?
You argue that the semantics aren't important. And yet, you edited your message. If the semantics aren't important, why edit?

Of course, the fact that you haven't yet edited the "you all" from your very first comment:

Only it is because you all think this guy has a point.

Suggests that your opinion on semantics flicks back and forth, depending on if it's you who makes the judgement or someone else. If it's you, valid. If it's someone else? it isn't pertinent. Of course, it could just be flicking back and forth randomly, or due to something different - I'm not really here to judge. (Well, not you, anyway, so much as your ideas.)

Hint: If you use the wrong semantics, you convey the wrong idea. If you convey the wrong idea, people argue with that idea rather then your actual idea. And if they do that, then it may well seem like the point is impertinent to your idea, but that's because you used the wrong semantics. Which makes it your fault.

I'm enjoying the reaction in this forum XD, seriously can't we read a little bit before trashing something ?XD

Ummm can you really apply this logic to every videogame? it's like the hawkeye intiative, anyone cares to do a annita initiative?

Erm, I think some, if not most people ARE reading a little bit into it. If they weren't, you'd expect something like "This is clearly some feminazi Hitler Nazi thing making stuff up and grr grr" etc.
And yet, we're hearing stuff closer to "This is not a parody at all parodies are supposed to be funny grr grr" etc. Which is what you would expect if people read into it enough to realize it was supposed to be a parody.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

You must have a lot of free time.

My point is that he ignored what I said in wider sense and picked on some meaningless couple of words.

 

[TAGM]

snip

You must have a lot of free time.

My point is that he ignored what I said in wider sense and picked on some meaningless couple of words.

As apposed to you, who picks on the fact that I made an argument against you at all, suggesting that me having enough time to argue against your points is in some way a sign I'm lazy or some such? Because that seems completely pertinent to the discussion.

Besides which, I'm not entirely sure, clue me in - where did he ignore your points? Here, maybe?

Saying there is a "problem with sexism in gaming" is as valid as saying there is a "problem with man-haters in feminism". While both are true to an extent, they are nothing more than sweeping statements painting an entire group of diverse people with the same brush.

You would not accept people outright claiming the latter, so why do you think it's okay to say the former?

Or maybe here?

Again with the "You all". The "Us Vs Them" mentality, despite the fact that the vast majority of responses to this thread have pointed out that it is poor satire. Very little feminist bashing, very little people taking it seriously.

And before you say that second one was arguing the semantics, it's at the very least debatable that it was also an argument against your statement that there must be a problem with sexism, because EVERYONE here, or at least a large majority, are saying "oh yeah I agree fuck feminists right?"

Look, let me put up what your argument seems to be, logically:

Premise 1) If there is a problem with sexism in gaming, then we would expect to see many or all people in this thread agreeing with this article.
Premise 2) Many and all people in this thread are agreeing with this article.
Premise 3) Therefore, it can be reasonably assumed that there is a problem with sexism in gaming.

Now, see, if we can disprove Premise 2 - by, for instance, arguing that a large majority are NOT agreeing with it - which, in turn, could be argued by saying that "you are saying all, but it is only few" - then your argument falls apart. In other words:

A large majority agreeing with this article is a key point in your argument. To argue this is incorrect is not at all unrelated. And to argue against the use of "all" is, in turn, to argue against this key point.

And I'd like to make this very clear - Your argument falls apart. This argument, in particular, fails. Does this mean that sexism is not a problem in gaming? No. There are other arguments to be made, some of which could well be more valid. But your argument, unfortunately, does not make logical sense given the evidence in this thread.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip.

But there is a large majority agreeing with the article...I maybe shouldn't have used 'You all' but it was just a quicker way of writing it. Like I said, arguing semantics.

The main point of my post to point out how much feminist hating there was in the thread is still valid.

Sorry I don't make perfect posts while taking loads of pain killers.