Poll: Xbone, kinect and privacy issues.

[doomed89]

Alot of people have brought up privacy issues with kinect seeing how the Xbone won't work without it pluged in with even it's "off" mode is just a sleep mode which Microsoft has confirmed the voice reconition feature still works (ie the mic works too) and the whole prism thing. Now people have made the argument that nobody is going to sit through billions of hours of footage of nothing and only if they have a reason to look at you specifically, but here's the thing they don't have too.

Kinect is capable of reading bio-metrics and voice/facial recognition, what that means is kinect can do the bulk of the spying without humans ever watching or listening to anything. Personally I think it will be used to gather market data which will be then sold off to third parties more then anything government related but the possibilities as I see them are like this: Program kinect to listen for key words like ps4, pepsi, cola ect. and follow up words like plan to buy, hate, great ect. or even program it to start recording for a bit and save it to a partitioned space in the harddrive then send it to MS when the console next goes online and have someone filter through the remainder (still a lot of work but it just became logistically possible) or with the bio-metrics use it to gauge the effectiveness of ads either in the tv features or dashboard/xbl ads and use that data to make ads more effective.

Now some people might not see this as a problem since most of that information isn't personal in the least, to those who don't have a problem with it I have one question, why are you paying more for kinect to be MSes lab rat? They should pay you as a focus tester or something if they are going to do this not the other way around.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree up to a point. However, there is a difference between being capable of doing something and actually doing it. We are all capable of many things that we never do for moral reasons. I mean, I could see Microsoft doing it if, say, they were helping to gather evidence against some kind of criminal. But just because it's feasible for Microsoft to spy on everybody with an Xbone through Kinect doesn't mean they actually will. That would just be a PR nightmare waiting to happen that would dwarf that caused by the DRM.

 

[doomed89]

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree up to a point. However, there is a difference between being capable of doing something and actually doing it. We are all capable of many things that we never do for moral reasons. I mean, I could see Microsoft doing it if, say, they were helping to gather evidence against some kind of criminal. But just because it's feasible for Microsoft to spy on everybody with an Xbone through Kinect doesn't mean they actually will. That would just be a PR nightmare waiting to happen that would dwarf that caused by the DRM.

I was going to laugh at you for implying MS wouldn't do it for moral reasons but then you said for PR reasons which is a bit more reasonable but honestly how would people know? Getting solid court level evidence of something like that is next to impossible, they buried the true failrate of the 360 ffs and that was a very public thing with local stores and average people seeing it and especially since MS is in league with prism they probably have significant legal leeway so even if someone stole documents proving it they'd probably never see the light of day outside of a rumor site. Also it seems to me xbone was made for this, always online with a camera with voice recognition not only being bundled but being required for the system to run as well as tv features, it seems tailor made for this kind of "market research" and I doubt MS would abandon it unless there was a very public outcry like there was with the DRM but this is something that will never be that public.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

But just because it's feasible for Microsoft to spy on everybody with an Xbone through Kinect doesn't mean they actually will. That would just be a PR nightmare waiting to happen that would dwarf that caused by the DRM.

That would be a PR nightmare only if someone could prove it, and until then they'd be free to do so without anyone knowing, just like the governments have done so far. I'm sorry, but I do not trust anyone of MS calibre to actually stick to the morally acceptable thing to do.

 

[krazykidd]

I didn't vote because all of that sounds ridiculous and the poll options didn't reflect that . Sure it's possible , and i doubt microsoft has any respect for anything other than money , but it sounds very conspiracy theory-ish .

The only upside i see to doing that , is a lot of COD dudebros going to jail for saying things like : " i'm gonna shoot that ************" or " i'ma blow you up". If you take anything anyone says out of context , there will be big trouble.

 

[Confidingtripod]

its not so much about what they will do, or even if its Microsoft doing it, what worries people is that some-one could spy on them, the fact that there is a camera and always on microphone in their home would bother them, if there is ever a reason for me to have an Xbone then I'm removing the damn thing as I wont play a kinect game anyway

 

[Fidchell Attano]

I have a hockey stick and could beat whomever upset me half to death if I wanted, it doesn't mean I will do it. Why? The backlash would be intense, and I will be on a 1 way road to jail if I do that.

Now, here is the thing. Microsoft isn't stupid, they know what will happen to them if they get caught recording people through Kinect, xbox units will not only be refunded, there will be class action lawsuits, the government seizing assets, public backlash they would NEVER be able to recover from.

As for that last thing they tried with the whole used game policy, every game-developing company was thinking of doing it, but Microsoft wanted to do it first, and upon seeing Microsoft take that hit, they were thinking: "Thank god we didn't do it first."

 

[doomed89]

I didn't vote because all of that sounds ridiculous and the poll options didn't reflect that . Sure it's possible , and i doubt microsoft has any respect for anything other than money , but it sounds very conspiracy theory-ish .

The only upside i see to doing that , is a lot of COD dudebros going to jail for saying things like : " i'm gonna shoot that ************" or " i'ma blow you up". If you take anything anyone says out of context , there will be big trouble.

There is no upside, and they of course wouldn't go to jail freedom of speech, it'd be used for "market research", and you haven't said any reason why they couldn't or wouldn't so how is it conspiracy theory-ish?

I have a hockey stick and could beat whomever upset me half to death if I wanted, it doesn't mean I will do it. Why? The backlash would be intense, and I will be on a 1 way road to jail if I do that.

Now, here is the thing. Microsoft isn't stupid, they know what will happen to them if they get caught recording people through Kinect, xbox units will not only be refunded, there will be class action lawsuits, the government seizing assets, public backlash they would NEVER be able to recover from.

As for that last thing they tried with the whole used game policy, every game-developing company was thinking of doing it, but Microsoft wanted to do it first, and upon seeing Microsoft take that hit, they were thinking: "Thank god we didn't do it first."

They don't need to actually record video, hell they don't even need to record audio, kinect could just be programmed to reconize words and pass along the data, and the camera could just record bio-metric data and pass it along. There are dozens of loop holes I have no doubt if MS did do it they'd do it in a way that was technically legal and they easily could do it and again how would people find out? A rumor on the net? Nobody believes that. Proving something like this would be next to impossible and MS is good at burying things.

 

[krazykidd]

I didn't vote because all of that sounds ridiculous and the poll options didn't reflect that . Sure it's possible , and i doubt microsoft has any respect for anything other than money , but it sounds very conspiracy theory-ish .

The only upside i see to doing that , is a lot of COD dudebros going to jail for saying things like : " i'm gonna shoot that ************" or " i'ma blow you up". If you take anything anyone says out of context , there will be big trouble.

There is no upside, and they of course wouldn't go to jail freedom of speech, it'd be used for "market research", and you haven't said any reason why they couldn't or wouldn't so how is it conspiracy theory-ish?

I have a hockey stick and could beat whomever upset me half to death if I wanted, it doesn't mean I will do it. Why? The backlash would be intense, and I will be on a 1 way road to jail if I do that.

Now, here is the thing. Microsoft isn't stupid, they know what will happen to them if they get caught recording people through Kinect, xbox units will not only be refunded, there will be class action lawsuits, the government seizing assets, public backlash they would NEVER be able to recover from.

As for that last thing they tried with the whole used game policy, every game-developing company was thinking of doing it, but Microsoft wanted to do it first, and upon seeing Microsoft take that hit, they were thinking: "Thank god we didn't do it first."

They don't need to actually record video, hell they don't even need to record audio, kinect could just be programmed to reconize words and pass along the data, and the camera could just record bio-metric data and pass it along. There are dozens of loop holes I have no doubt if MS did do it they'd do it in a way that was technically legal and they easily could do it and again how would people find out? A rumor on the net? Nobody believes that. Proving something like this would be next to impossible and MS is good at burying things.

That's not how freedom of speech works . And there is a difference between prison and jail.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

And there is a difference between prison and jail.

There is? Could you elaborate on that, please?

 

[Zhukov]

Microsoft using the Kinect to spy on people is some conspiracy theory level bullshit.

Besides, couldn't the camera be defeated by a strategically placed blob of blu-tack?

Kind of an awesome idea though. Somewhere out there a spy agency is kicking themselves for not thinking of it earlier.

 

[doomed89]

Does it really matter if they spy on you? As long as they don't spy on people who are nude, I can't see the issue. But even then it's highley unlikely, due to laws and such.

You obviously didn't read my post, and what laws exactly?

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Does it really matter if they spy on you? As long as they don't spy on people who are nude, I can't see the issue. But even then it's highley unlikely, due to laws and such.

So you'd be OK with complete strangers just looking in your house at all times, then?

 

[doomed89]

I would imagine that there are laws to prevent such spying.

But on a related note, I was out walking my dog last night and I saw the most beautiful sunset ever. My, how the orange-gold light dappled upon the branches of the oak trees as they swayed lightly in breeze. It was a veritable cornucopia of visual delight. As I listened to the sounds of the evening birds cooing their lovely song, I felt as though nature itself was inviting me to prolong my excursion, and so I took the slightly longer route, though it was less familiar to me. After I had been walking for some time my dog, who is a cross breed between a westie and a jack russell called Cooper (after the comedian and magician Tommy Cooper; I rescued him from a nearby shelter in 2004 and my cousin, who was staying with me at the time, gave him the name) grew tired of walking so I picked him up and carried him for a distance of several kilometers. This morning, I discovered that he had left muddy pawprints on the left sleeve (though not the right sleeve) of my jacket and so I had to take it to the dry cleaners. The queue was quite long, which is surprising considering it is a weekday.

Maybe you should stop imagining and start looking them up before assuming MS can't do this in a legal way and quoting that as a reason they won't.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

And there is a difference between prison and jail.

There is? Could you elaborate on that, please?

Jail is where the police hold you in custody after being arrested. Prison is where you go after being convicted and sentenced.

 

[Fidchell Attano]

They don't need to actually record video, hell they don't even need to record audio, kinect could just be programmed to reconize words and pass along the data, and the camera could just record bio-metric data and pass it along. There are dozens of loop holes I have no doubt if MS did do it they'd do it in a way that was technically legal and they easily could do it and again how would people find out? A rumor on the net? Nobody believes that. Proving something like this would be next to impossible and MS is good at burying things.

You mean what Facebook already does?

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

And there is a difference between prison and jail.

There is? Could you elaborate on that, please?

Jail is where the police hold you in custody after being arrested. Prison is where you go after being convicted and sentenced.

Thanks, I really thought they were two words describing the same thing.

 

[doodles]

Thats an odd question considering the kinect has been in existance for quite some time. Rather shouldnt that be extended to any video recording/ transmission device around you?

I.E
Webcam I have one facing me right now. My skype is also set to autoanswer for whoever calls. I personally dont care
3 Microphones that quite honestly have less indications if they are recording what is being said.
Keyloggers from all the porn I download.
The phone.

All data I have is sent through ATT data networks.

Quite honestly I am more worried about ATT as they are known to collect information and give to prettymuch whoever pays/ demands it.

Replace ATT with Google/facebook/mostmajorcorporations.

by worried I mean not at all. If Microsoft wants to record me let them I say. You know how many billions I would make in a lawsuit?

 

[doomed89]

Thats an odd question considering the kinect has been in existance for quite some time. Rather shouldnt that be extended to any video recording/ transmission device around you?

I.E
Webcam I have one facing me right now. My skype is also set to autoanswer for whoever calls. I personally dont care
3 Microphones that quite honestly have less indications if they are recording what is being said.
Keyloggers from all the porn I download.
The phone.

All data I have is sent through ATT data networks.

Quite honestly I am more worried about ATT as they are known to collect information and give to prettymuch whoever pays/ demands it.

Replace ATT with Google/facebook/mostmajorcorporations.

by worried I mean not at all. If Microsoft wants to record me let them I say. You know how many billions I would make in a lawsuit?

First of all none of those devices can monitor bio-metrics or have voice recognition (if you read my post you'd know that) second you couldn't even prove it's happening and even if you could you probably agreed to it and it's probably technically legal so 0 billion.

 

[doodles]

What? No voice recognition? No Biometrics?

I would say you need to catch up on your software and hardware.

Also if you are in the united states I urge you to check up on the laws regarding the recording of individuals. You will find they are highly illegal unless ALL parties are notified and agree.

e.g. Consent should be given prior to the recording, and should either be in writing or recorded verbally, or a warning that the conversation is being taped should be recorded.

ofcourse it would also depend on the individual states laws and then country for the rest of the world.

Microsoft is no newbie to being sued.