Poll: your fave style of character creation and leveling (rpg wise)
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If you were limited, why did you include 3 versions of the same thing? D&D, Neverwinter Nights, and Baldur's Gate are all based on different versions of the same overall system.
For computer games, I'm fond of the Elder Scrolls "use it to improve it" method, because it seems most "realistic" to me. I'm not really fond of the arbitrary limitations of former paper-and-dice systems like D&D because they're not designed to take advantage of the medium.
The system I'd *really* like, however, has not been used: something that dispenses with the entire "leveling" scheme altogether. I fail to see how going around getting shot at a lot and completing a bunch of quests means you can get shot more times without dying. In fact, in regular leveling systems it usually doesn't even mean that, because the mobs get jacked up a notch to keep up with you. It makes sense in tabletop games (well, sort of) because of the limitations of human GM's for keeping track of data. Computers don't have the same limitations, so the games should be different.
For computer games, I'm fond of the Elder Scrolls "use it to improve it" method, because it seems most "realistic" to me. I'm not really fond of the arbitrary limitations of former paper-and-dice systems like D&D because they're not designed to take advantage of the medium.
The system I'd *really* like, however, has not been used: something that dispenses with the entire "leveling" scheme altogether. I fail to see how going around getting shot at a lot and completing a bunch of quests means you can get shot more times without dying. In fact, in regular leveling systems it usually doesn't even mean that, because the mobs get jacked up a notch to keep up with you. It makes sense in tabletop games (well, sort of) because of the limitations of human GM's for keeping track of data. Computers don't have the same limitations, so the games should be different.
I liked the sphere grid. It allowed me to make how good my characters are relevant to how annoying I found them. Wakka was weak.
Elder Scrolls is interesting, but prone to abuse (swimming in the cornor anyone?). SPECIAL is okay... The Sphere Grid really isn't anything special, I HATE The License Board (but I am one of the rare folk who LIKED FFXII). Also... you listed 3 DnD based level systems...
Anyway I have several favorite Leveling/Ability gaining systems.
I like traditional "gain XP" leveling like most DnD based RPG's and Fallout where you get XP for everything, from picking a lock to reading the right book (in some cases) but mostly from completeting quests.
For Ability Learning I have a real soft spot for Quest Abilities ala Shadow Hearts 2, where you need to go on quests and complete minigames in order to gain more special abilities for your characters. This was incredibly fun and very interesting.
But I suppose if I need to pick from the list...
Never Winter Nights, or 3/3.5e DnD is what I find the most fun in an electronic medium, I love being able to switch classes onthe fly and learn 100 different abilities should I so desire. This puts it a step above KOTOR because I could be a Level 11 Fighter/Ranger/Rogue/Barbarian/Druid/Paladin/Monk/Sorceror/Wizard/Cleric/Bard if I REALLY wanted to.
Anyway I have several favorite Leveling/Ability gaining systems.
I like traditional "gain XP" leveling like most DnD based RPG's and Fallout where you get XP for everything, from picking a lock to reading the right book (in some cases) but mostly from completeting quests.
For Ability Learning I have a real soft spot for Quest Abilities ala Shadow Hearts 2, where you need to go on quests and complete minigames in order to gain more special abilities for your characters. This was incredibly fun and very interesting.
But I suppose if I need to pick from the list...
Never Winter Nights, or 3/3.5e DnD is what I find the most fun in an electronic medium, I love being able to switch classes onthe fly and learn 100 different abilities should I so desire. This puts it a step above KOTOR because I could be a Level 11 Fighter/Ranger/Rogue/Barbarian/Druid/Paladin/Monk/Sorceror/Wizard/Cleric/Bard if I REALLY wanted to.
I feel personally.. and, well, I'm gonna use Fallout 3 as an example here, as it's the game that's been making me think about this a lot.
Fallout 3, you get experience for stuff like finding new places, completing quests, killing enemies, blah blah.
This EXP is measured against a level bar, when you have, say, 1000, you're now Level 2. Woop-te-do. At Level 2, you got a certain amount of points which you used to improve skills, repair, small guns, etc. You could also add a point to your 'SPECIAL', which was Strength, Perception, blah blah. Now, I'd personally prefer a system which combined a lot of methods.
For instance - when I find a new town, I gain.. say "Life EXP" or "Level EXP", whatever. This is used to grow a level and at this level, I can improve my bodily stats such as strength, charisma, blah blah. (In a FO3 context this would also allow you to gain a perk, although this is not true in all games.)
I would, however, also like my stats to improve AS I use them. Instead of gaining 4XP for killing an enemy, I could get slightly better with the weapon I killed it with, condensed into Morrowind-esque categories. (blade, short blade, etc.)
This is one of the things that bugged me about FO3, some of the stuff I never used, but due to my bizarre compulsion to keep all of my levels similar, I basically had to pour EXP into them.
Now, instead of getting better at say, repair as I upgrade to Level 2, I think I should slowly get better as I repair, as I learn that ducttape CAN hold my rifle together.
Bit of a rant, I apologise.
Fallout 3, you get experience for stuff like finding new places, completing quests, killing enemies, blah blah.
This EXP is measured against a level bar, when you have, say, 1000, you're now Level 2. Woop-te-do. At Level 2, you got a certain amount of points which you used to improve skills, repair, small guns, etc. You could also add a point to your 'SPECIAL', which was Strength, Perception, blah blah. Now, I'd personally prefer a system which combined a lot of methods.
For instance - when I find a new town, I gain.. say "Life EXP" or "Level EXP", whatever. This is used to grow a level and at this level, I can improve my bodily stats such as strength, charisma, blah blah. (In a FO3 context this would also allow you to gain a perk, although this is not true in all games.)
I would, however, also like my stats to improve AS I use them. Instead of gaining 4XP for killing an enemy, I could get slightly better with the weapon I killed it with, condensed into Morrowind-esque categories. (blade, short blade, etc.)
This is one of the things that bugged me about FO3, some of the stuff I never used, but due to my bizarre compulsion to keep all of my levels similar, I basically had to pour EXP into them.
Now, instead of getting better at say, repair as I upgrade to Level 2, I think I should slowly get better as I repair, as I learn that ducttape CAN hold my rifle together.
Bit of a rant, I apologise.
I like the Elder Scrolls system in theory, but it's execution is completely messed up. The way your skills tie into an arbitrary level-up, which awards stat points based on how many skills you used in the intervening period, encourages boring activities such as running around in a circle, jumping up and down in one spot, sneaking into a corner, etc; and even completely counter-intuitive activities such as a sword specialist avoiding using a sword and using an ax instead in order to avoid hampering his overall strength growth. The custom character class system again encourages skill assignments based not on a role playing idea or character concept but on optimal stat growth. Really, the Elder Scrolls system is a nightmare.
One of my favorite RPGs used a combination of experience points and direct learning; Wizardry 8. You got xp for beating monsters and skill points for leveling up, but your skills also increased through direct use. It meant that you could pretty much just play the game and not worry about your characters turning out bad, but power gamers could grind up their character's abilities if they so chose. Some of the hybrid classes in the game were based with this in mind; you couldn't really have a good fighter/spellcaster unless you devoted time towards direct skill increases.
I like RPGs where character building isn't directly tied to xp though. Games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Persona 3 have me absorbed for hours in trying to build ultimate characters and achieve optimal ability sets.
One of my favorite RPGs used a combination of experience points and direct learning; Wizardry 8. You got xp for beating monsters and skill points for leveling up, but your skills also increased through direct use. It meant that you could pretty much just play the game and not worry about your characters turning out bad, but power gamers could grind up their character's abilities if they so chose. Some of the hybrid classes in the game were based with this in mind; you couldn't really have a good fighter/spellcaster unless you devoted time towards direct skill increases.
I like RPGs where character building isn't directly tied to xp though. Games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Persona 3 have me absorbed for hours in trying to build ultimate characters and achieve optimal ability sets.