Poll: Your Pet is Drowning, and so is a Stranger.

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joshuaayt

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Nov 15, 2009
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My pet. Apart from the general pain of losing him, and having to comfort my sister- well, I'm not exactly an Olympian. If I somehow manage to get out of that whirlpool alive, it sure as hell isn't gonna be with a fully grown human slung across my back.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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BiscuitTrouser said:
If you place zero value on a human life and 10 dollars of value on a 10 dollar bill why would you ever pick the worthless human life over the worthwhile money? Youve just admitted that your value system places objects higher than random people. Therefor if you had to make a choice between material goods and people youd pick material goods.
You're discounting a lot of external variables, with fear of detection and retribution/punishment probably being the biggest one, that could have more value than the paltry $10 on offer even with human life at zero value.
 

Relish in Chaos

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Mar 7, 2012
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I?d scream for help from someone who can actually swim and tell them to, most importantly, save my pet, since I actually know my pet, prefer animals to humans, and don?t give a shit about some random stranger who could be a jerk anyway.
 

biganemanja

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Jan 23, 2011
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Id save the pet, people are usually assholes, and I wont miss some random stranger if he dies, maybe im cold like that but, if it was between my pet and a stranger, id chose my pet every time, i would save the stranger if only he was drowning, but if its a choice im gonna go for someone i love before i go for someone i dont know
 

BiscuitTrouser

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May 19, 2008
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Aris Khandr said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
If you place zero value on a human life and 10 dollars of value on a 10 dollar bill why would you ever pick the worthless human life over the worthwhile money? Youve just admitted that your value system places objects higher than random people. Therefor if you had to make a choice between material goods and people youd pick material goods.

The answer to the question in the OP means little. The motivation reveals a lot.
Because I value not being a jerk more than money? That doesn't mean that the people themselves hold any value to me, it just means that I value my own perception of right and wrong higher than the money.
If you dont value someone you wouldnt care if they were hurt or died. As such if you behaved like a jerk you shouldnt feel any remorse or guilt if you place no value on the victim. If you dont care about people and cant cite any reason to care about if they live or die why would you label actions that cause this right and wrong?
 

Loonyyy

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Jul 10, 2009
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I'd save my pet. I care for my pet more than a random stranger. Now, if you can tell me why I should care for a random person more, I'd be happy to save that person, but the thing is, while I'd LIKE people to save me where I in that situation, not everyone is going to do that. I'll quote Catch-22 for my point:
"From now on I'm thinking only of me." Major Danby replied indulgently with a superior smile: "But, Yossarian, suppose everyone felt that way?"
"Then,? said Yossarian, ?I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I?"
There's no advantage to thinking of others if there's no assurances they'll act that way to you. I'm admittedly self-serving, and I place my needs at the highest amongst my priorities. And I don't care if anyone thinks any different. There are two successful ways things get done. We all do what we need to survive (Which is what I do), or we all help each other to survive. Thing is, the second only takes a couple of sneaky people to work for themselves to get ahead. Without any sort of enforcement of cooperation (Which is where government, welfare, social security and taxes come in), cooperation ends up supporting the tricksters. My dog means more to me than a random stranger, or any one of my random acquiantances. And I'll save whatever means most to me.

Onto the stupid bit:

So I saw this poll on MMO-Champion and it tilted 2:1 towards saving the pet. I find this disgusting on a level I can't even begin to describe. Excuses ranged from arguments from ignorance "Well the stranger might be a pedophile!" to admissions that their own feelings trump the feelings of the friends and family of the human being who is going to die due to their action (or inaction).
I'll appily make the admission: I don't think it's wrong to say so-I personally think most people would choose what matters most to them, even if they'd claim the heroic option. What about if I spoke about say, your mentally disabled child? That child is of less use to society, and it's death causes less harm to people who aren't you, but would you save your mentally disabled child over a random stranger? We're trying to judge the worth of a being over their cognitive ability, and ability to contribute to society. This is foolish. It's not inherently noble or heroic. It's self serving as well, just in a more long term situation. Empathy is an important part of our decision making process. Even Kant, who created an entire system for secular morality based on logical principles, kept in the need to consider empathy and emotion.

And, as an arrogant asshole, I'd happily judge many people as having such little intelligence they don't deserve my saving. Which is why I'm very glad it's not up to me, or someone cleverer (Yes it's not a word) than me with the same attitude. In all cases we're deciding who dies: I'm simply refusing to judge them on what seems to be their worth to the rest of society, and consider them as equal, and instead, making my decision on my personal emotion.
What bothers me most is that I remember Dennis Prager, a conservative loudmouth, talking about a poll conducted with "liberals" asking the same question. He claimed that an overwhelming majority of them would save their pet over a human, and at the time I thought that sounded like just more bullshit from a bullshit artist.
I'd go further. I'd say that most people would.
Was I wrong? Does that loudmouth imbecile actually have a valid point for once in his career? I decided to run a completely unscientific test with a fairly liberal audience (you guys) to find out.
So apparently we're all liberal now? Considering how crazy the conservative wings of a certain country have become, compared to them, everyone is liberal. That's the lense he's looking through, don't listen to him.

And, without considering the Conservative position as well (And it's a real muddle splitting people by their political leanings, we end up with a number with no comparing value. It's useless.
 

Signa

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Jul 16, 2008
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Simple, I'd tell the idiot flailing about in the water to get my pet out. When they don't, I'd dive in to get it myself. It's stupid to think a person can't swim.

If it was a kid, that might change things a lot.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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May 19, 2008
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RhombusHatesYou said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
If you place zero value on a human life and 10 dollars of value on a 10 dollar bill why would you ever pick the worthless human life over the worthwhile money? Youve just admitted that your value system places objects higher than random people. Therefor if you had to make a choice between material goods and people youd pick material goods.
You're discounting a lot of external variables, with fear of detection and retribution/punishment probably being the biggest one, that could have more value than the paltry $10 on offer even with human life at zero value.
True, but in any hypothetical scenario in which chances of being caught are VERY low (in real life this happens, i had NO way to identify or report my mugger at all) they should logically be doing these things.
 

hawk533

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Dec 17, 2009
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You Lawful Good types are pathetic. I'd jump in to save my pet every time. There are more than 6 billion people on the planet. Human life is hardly a precious commodity.

If it's just a person drowning, I jump in to save them. If it's my sister vs my pet, I pick my sister. But I have absolutely no qualms about picking the pet that I love and see every day over a random stranger who I'll never see again. Tough luck for falling in a whirlpool with no one but me around to save them.
 

exessmirror

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Apr 26, 2011
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lets say for the sake of argument i would have a pet. i would save the stranger.
considering what a human life is worth vs an animal. also it is a women who might want to go for a coffee after i saved her. and the possible reward i get for saving a life. i could buy a new pet afterwards. wouldn't be the first time my pet dies. it would still be better than dealing with the fallout for not saving the human.
 

BENZOOKA

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Oct 26, 2009
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A beloved pet, obviously.

...Then again, how hot is this woman?

I've saved a puppy that fell into a well couple years back on xmas eve. Incidentally, there were no people drowning there at that time.
 

Aris Khandr

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Oct 6, 2010
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BiscuitTrouser said:
If you dont value someone you wouldnt care if they were hurt or died. As such if you behaved like a jerk you shouldnt feel any remorse or guilt if you place no value on the victim. If you dont care about people and cant cite any reason to care about if they live or die why would you label actions that cause this right and wrong?
Because I care about myself. I care about how I feel about me. And I don't feel like a person who would murder 2,000 for $10. That doesn't mean I care about them. If those same 2,000 people died in a fire, or an earthquake, or a Godzilla attack, it wouldn't phase me (though I might want to see video of the Godzilla attack). The people, themselves, are meaningless. But my view of myself is irreplaceable.
 

Adultism

Karma Haunts You
Jan 5, 2011
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Holy crap this entire thread is troll bait. I feel like if I post my opinion here people will gang up on me and kill me if either choice is made. So....

I'm not fucking stupid I don't take my dog around lakes or whirlpools or anysuch DANGEROUS areas. Therefore I can easily rescue the human because I would have tied my dog to a lamp post and dived in.

However I love my pet. I love my pet more than some random stranger and my family would be sad if I lost her. So my families feelings come before ANYONE elses feelings. Family and friends are the most important things to me in life.

So OP. Answer me this; Your mother is drowning, and so is your son. Who do you save?

INB4 OP ignores me because this entire thread is pointless and stupid. People just want to sit on their high horse and spout hate at others for not agreeing with them.

Also what this comes down to is would you save family or a random person, because a lot of people see pets as family and I see NOTHING wrong with that.
 

excalipoor

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Jan 16, 2011
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The lack of empathy in this thread is frightening. And I've head plenty of pets. Then again, they all hated my guts, and given the chance not one of them would ever in a million years save ME from drowning. So I might be biased.

Though we'd probably end up drowning all three of us anyway.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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I am an above average swimmer, but in no way great so that means I would probably be unable to save the person. I have had some practice when it comes to rescuing drowning people during my swimming lessons, but those are lessons in a pool, rescuing a person who isn't drowning and is relaxed and cooperating. Even then I did a pretty bad job of it. If I was trying to rescue a person from a whirlpool there's a good chance the person drowning was just as good a swimmer as me so that means that I would probably be unable to swim well enough to rescue this person. There's also a fair chance she would be in panic and attack me when I got close or at least struggle enough to make me unable to save her.

The dog would be easier to save and I would have at least some emotional attachment to it, but honestly, I would probably try to call for help or find a way I could save them without risking anything. If I could be certain to save at least one I would probably save the person.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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May 19, 2008
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LifeCharacter said:
Okay you've been arguing the point that because someone said what amounts to "I don't care about the stranger" a few pages back, they put zero value on human life and would push a button that would cause endless suffering to thousands of people for any amount of money. You've elevated what could have easily been taken as "Relative to my feelings for my dog, I don't care about a stranger," to "a person's life is worthless unless it affects me directly." A person's intent when speaking should be given more weight than worthless semantics.
Someone said "I dont care at all about people i dont know" in that context and im responding to that. The answer to the dog question is irrelevant. I've said countless times that you can choose to save your dog but still be a normal moral person. A complete lack of empathy for anyone who you dont know is mildly disturbing though.

"a person's life is worthless unless it affects me directly."

amounts to the same thing.

Aris Khandr said:
Because I care about myself. I care about how I feel about me. And I don't feel like a person who would murder 2,000 for $10. That doesn't mean I care about them. If those same 2,000 people died in a fire, or an earthquake, or a Godzilla attack, it wouldn't phase me (though I might want to see video of the Godzilla attack). The people, themselves, are meaningless. But my view of myself is irreplaceable.
Interesting. But if a person has as much inherent worth to you as a carboard box why would you care about being a person who doesnt murder 2000 for $10 more than being someone who would squash 2000 boxes for $10. If you place equal value on both why does one action mean more to you than another?