Poll: Zeitgeist Movement

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TheIronRuler

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JMeganSnow said:
TheIronRuler said:
Aye, but at the moment there is already a large amount of sheeple, slaves to either the government, a job or a debt.
You'd be surprised how narrow minded people are and how they allow others to make their decisions for them, even if most are made through subliminal messages.
Exhibit A being the people who believe this or any version of this.

If these "sheeple" are so common, why do I never meet any of them? I do meet people who aren't particularly interested in certain intellectual issues (and even then, they have been known to surprise me), but that doesn't make them sheep. I'm not in a position to critically examine the merits of seventeen different types of lawnmower or insurance plan, because I don't give a crap about lawnmowers or insurance plans.

The only people I've ever met who actually approach "sheeple" status are the so-called intellectual elites who have become incapable of critically examining their own ideas even after repeated failures. Instead, they go around complaining that everyone else is too dumb, illiterate, or simple-minded to put their OBVIOUSLY perfect ideas into practice.
I should practice my writing abilities since it seems that I transmit cynicism through the internet rather poorly.
I should have written "Sheeple" with quotation marks so that I would be obvious. I apologize for my poor ability to transmit emotions via the internet.
Adios.
 

Roan Carratu

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Jun 8, 2011
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I will not debate the ideas of the Zeitgeist Movement, but I will happily answer any questions anyone has about those ideas. They are, after all, just ideas. A basic of the Movement is 'Do No Harm' and no coercion can be part of the implementation of the ideas. Inotherwords, people will want to do them, en mass, or they won't happen. The majority of the half million members of the Movement are new to the ideas and are in the process of learning about them, so there are a wide variation in the opinions of those members, but the basic ideas are not meant to be any kind of fixed dogma, they are simply the emergent social ideas originating from the growth of scientific discovery, which is something that has accelerated to an unimaginable degree over the last few decades.

Social agreements produce a cultural 'common sense' that changes over time, and we simply want to produce a more sensible 'common sense' than wars, 30,000 people starving to death each day in a world of plenty of food, and all the other stupidity that seems so embedded in our current society. And, of course, we want to eliminate the coercion of this existing system, which produces most of our cultural problems, much of which is becoming viewed as 'human nature' when there seems to be no fixed 'human nature' according to science. We seem to be seeing the symptoms as causes of our problems and ignoring the actual causes of most of our social problems. With the ecology, a truly fixed constant, based on land and resources, dying at an accelerating rate, according to science, we feel that is not sustainable and so we need to think differently to survive our past social insanity.

So ask, and if I can answer, I will.
 

WurmD

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Jun 8, 2011
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JMeganSnow said:
TheIronRuler said:
Aye, but at the moment there is already a large amount of sheeple, slaves to either the government, a job or a debt.
You'd be surprised how narrow minded people are and how they allow others to make their decisions for them, even if most are made through subliminal messages.
Exhibit A being the people who believe this or any version of this.

If these "sheeple" are so common, why do I never meet any of them?
lol how about these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QTX46XNLM#t=1m17s ?
"They get fed this stuff, and they regurgitate it, and they don't even think about it."

and here's some just plain dumb people for teh lulz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
 

Nimcha

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Ah, yes. I would say their ideas are disgusting and very dangerous but thankfully nobody takes them seriously so it's not worth the trouble.
 

Wolfenbarg

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Oct 18, 2010
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I found it to be one of the strangest bait and switch groups I've ever seen. They spent most of their time talking about the major institutions that govern our life, and how they fail spectacularly at doing so. A lot of information was dead wrong, but the overall idea that religion, government, and the financial sectors are making grave mistakes that we need to correct (with a few sound given examples) was quite nice. Then somewhere in the first addendum they bring up this new way of life that is WORSE than the systems they just spent all of that time meticulously derailing. Why spend so much time demonizing the Federal Reserve and their system of faith in currency through the current global trading scheme as opposed to basing them on hard currency if your ultimate goal is to have us subscribe to a school of thinking where money is irrelevant? Absolutely asinine. I also really hate how the Venus Project basically devalues hard work, saying it keeps us from intellectual pursuits. Most people value their hard work, especially if it reaps visible rewards. It gives a feeling of satisfaction and fulfillment.

In short, I was damn near ready to join the movement when addendum came out until I saw the second half of it. Technological wonders are great and all, but their idealistic society is even more restrictive than the current one.
 

Antari

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Nov 4, 2009
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Zietgiest is just the name of the movies that have been given. The basis of the ideas is the Venus Project. Its an interesting idea on how it would be nice to create a resource based economy, but there's not alot of ideas on how to actually go about doing it in a realistic way.
 

WeedWorm

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believer258 said:
TheIronRuler said:
believer258 said:
MaxPowers666 said:
What the fuck is the Zeitgeish Movement?
Same question; I glanced at this on Wikipedia and it seemed to be a bunch of funky words that really explained nothing to me. What, in simple outsider's terms, the hell is this?
I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.
...
...
Fuck that. I make my own decisions, damn it, and I'll take every consequence that comes with it. Because if we let machines control everything, then what satisfaction can we have? We'd become mindless animalistic drones, able to do nothing more than sheep.

At least that's my initial reaction. Upon further investigation it may change but if machines controlling us is the idea, then it's, plain and simple, fucking stupid.
It isint letting machines do the thinking for us, its letting machines do all the work while we do whatever the fuck we want.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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I saw the first third of the first movie (the part about religion.) They got everything so terribly wrong -- as in, filled with outright lies that they were hoping the target audience wouldn't catch, being apparently made up of atheists who know nothing of Christine doctrine, Egyptian mythology, Buddhism, the bible, or basically anything at all to do with world religion. It was so pathetically filled with outright untruths that, in my eyes, it disqualified absolutely everything they had to say after it.
 

Hero in a half shell

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Dec 30, 2009
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TheIronRuler said:
I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.
Oh, I thought it was to do with the Twin Towers conspiracy theory, whoops, I got my crazies mixed up. Interestingly I've seen little hand written stickers all over the university campus area in Belfast posted on lamp posts and trees and things that just say "watch Zeitgiest" So at least one person in Northern Ireland follows the belief.
 

GoreTuzk

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Jun 9, 2011
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I find it funny how easily people say it's "absolutely fucking stupid" when the aim of these films is to wake people up for the need of a more sustainable and humane society through the application of the scientific method for social concern. It has nothing to do with robots controlling anything as it's fundamentally against any type of control and stratification.

Basically what I mean is that it doesn't claim to have the answer to fix the world, and it doesn't require you to believe in anything you can't test for yourself through experience or at least conceive intellectually. The question here is simply transcending ideology, people are habituated to think through ideological perspectives like capitalism, socialism, etc. that were cleverly devised to serve the needs and wants of some while neglecting the rest; with the Venus Project we can start to get a sketch of what a holistic approach to social coherence could do for us, and, for me at least, what makes it so obvious that this is approximately the right path, is the fact that the designs, systems and technologies are completely based upon natural processes that billions of years of evolution have shaped in organisms and ecosystems.

Hero in a half shell said:
Oh, I thought it was to do with the Twin Towers conspiracy theory, whoops, I got my crazies mixed up. Interestingly I've seen little hand written stickers all over the university campus area in Belfast posted on lamp posts and trees and things that just say "watch Zeitgiest" So at least one person in Northern Ireland follows the belief.
That's actually how I got to know the movies, someone did sort of the same here in Portugal, the difference is they used graffiti instead.
 

Pendrokar

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Jun 9, 2011
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Hi,
I will also try to clarify a few things before things get derailed and overestimated.

Elmoth said:
I've heard of those movies. And I've also heard that they're pretty much bullshit. The bit that I saw made me think so too.
Lullabye said:
Heard of it as the brunt of many a joke. Not much else.
katsumoto03 said:
I've heard about it and it sounds absolutely fucking stupid. I also heard the movies were absolutely terrible. Further research has backed this up.
Nimcha said:
Ah, yes. I would say their ideas are disgusting and very dangerous but thankfully nobody takes them seriously so it's not worth the trouble.
Maraveno said:
They stink of poo-poo


and lots of it...
Please provide more feedback. Comments like these don't even give an overview to those who hear about the movement for the first time.
Although this negative view might have come from people that had watched the first movie, heavily disliked it, and so ignored the other two, which are totally different.

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Canid117 said:
I read a page on TvTropes that mentions that movie. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DocumentaryOfLies]
Popido said:
The conspiracies and ideals where both too romanticized. The ideals are just too big and will, most likely, eventually happen by their own pace. Conspiracies suffered from the same romanticing as some other conspiracy theories.

Personally I liked the Bible = calender part.
Owyn_Merrilin said:
I saw the first third of the first movie (the part about religion.) They got everything so terribly wrong -- as in, filled with outright lies that they were hoping the target audience wouldn't catch, being apparently made up of atheists who know nothing of Christine doctrine, Egyptian mythology, Buddhism, the bible, or basically anything at all to do with world religion. It was so pathetically filled with outright untruths that, in my eyes, it disqualified absolutely everything they had to say after it.
The Zeitgeist Movement was founded right after the release of Zeitgeist: Addendum. The last two movies are not meant as a precise explanation of what the movement is. Orientation video guide of TZM is much more relevant [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ngs-tOybJc&feature=channel_video_title]. PDF document even more [http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf].
The first movie has no connections to the Movement. Sure some people jump on Global TZM forums shouting about conspiracies and so on. But actions like that don't change anything. The first movie was all about complaining about the problems in the world without a solution. Although claiming that it is a pack of lies dreamed up by the creator of the movies is nonsense. Sources are listed on the website of those movies.

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MagnetoHydroDynamics said:
They are Singularitans who want the Singularity rather sooner than later...

While I am transhumanist, their general views seem... Odd. I want the Singularity too, but I am not zealous about it...
At no point have I encountered anything about needed Singularity to go on. From my perspective meaning having a creative AI that would do the necessary research to create what a individual wants. Such as Faster-Than Light travel.
The possibility of creating a Resource Based Economy only became viable in early 20th century. How effective it would be back then is a different matter.

...and I think that the free market might be kinda okay if it is regulated by the government.
Like how it is now? Some lobby for new laws to make a competitor weaker and people will always find ways to circumvent laws.
No doubt a unregulated free market would be even worse. But you can't stay in middle of regulations forever...

The democratic process is also okay, and instead of circumventing the people's opinion for their own good (wait, didn't already try this?
Why can I vote on things I do not understand?

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viranimus said:
My biggest beef is that sure it states the obvious things "Money is bad", but offers little or no specifics on how exactly we move away from a monetary society. Constructive criticism is always welcome, criticism with no aim, or direction is well, pretty useless.
True, but there are suggestions given. Such as going from the bottom up. Switching Minimum wage with basic income, which still wouldn't give you comfort, maybe not even electricity. Also applying automation to life necessarily goods, decreasing their value and thus the basic income.
All in all making goods so cheap that money is not required for them. Services though are a different matter.

That is all for now.
 

Zacharine

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Apr 17, 2009
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Have watched all their films.

Laughed all the way, except until I started crying that some people actually are misinformed enough to believe the BS.

Classical conspiracy nuts, along with people with their heads on the clouds.

Take money for example. It is an instrument of trade, meant to facilitate easy valuing of goods and services in relation to one another in an accesible way. Instead of having to carry your entire fortune with you and check exactly how many kilos of fresh grain and litres of milk a new pocketwatch is worth, we use money to indicate the value of all three. If money didn't exist, we'd have to invent it like we've done on at least 5 different, unconnected times and locations in ancient history.

Going 'back' to gold standard wouldn't help any - instead of simply having a piece of paper, you'd have a gold coin and instead of international exchange rates as well as variation in prices of goods, you'd have international exchange rate and variation in the price of gold - except you'd also have all the problems connected with metal-based monetary system in additiuon to the problems in the fiat system.

And yet, money is supposedly intrinsically 'bad' according to Zeitgeist and all our problems would be solved by abolishing it and exchanging resources directly.

Also, their religious history sucks badly and they've apparently never heard of correletaion not equalling causation. Their explanation for christianity is plain nuts and the connection with older sun-based religions circumstancial at best. You almost get better information from creationwiki - and I'm saying this as an atheist.

Honestly, supposed 'controversy' is the only reason anyone is talking about this piece of crap.
 

Nimcha

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Dec 6, 2010
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I like how many new posters this thread has attracted. I bet they all came from the same place on the web.
 

Atmos Duality

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TheIronRuler said:
I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.
*chuckles*
So, it's ending 3 of Deus Ex?
It sounds like it would be great for a laugh.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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Pendrokar said:
No, see it was nothing but lies. The whole God's Son/God's Sun thing only works in English, Horace was not the god of the Sun (he was the god of the sky, Ra was the god of the sun), he did not have 12 disciples, he was not born on December 25th, and he was not crucified. Buddha also did not have 12 disciples. For that matter, Jesus was not born on December 25th -- the date of the holiday was changed centuries after the fact in order to bring in some more converts by changing the meaning of an existing pagan holiday. The list goes on -- that video was spun out of wholecloth, and if you can't see it, you need to do some research of your own into world religions.

Oh, and from what I've heard about his sources? Known conspiracy theorists. Citations are only reliable if the sources picked are reliable. Anyone with even a basic understanding of ancient mythology could tell you just how wrong that section of the video is.
 

SilentCom

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Mar 14, 2011
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I've heard of it because it was mentioned in one of my classes. I think we may have seen a portion of a film during the time.