Poll: ZOMG THE GUILT!!!!

[mew4ever23]

It seems to me that some of us missed the disclaimer on the life box:

Contents may not always be fair to all users at all times.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

People fail to realize that we are this way because in a sense we fought to be this way. Though children in Africa dream every day to have food, while in America *Canada/USA* we have to just take a step for food. Our ancestors wouldn't want us, or future generations, to starve would they? As an example, if you ever had a child, would you willingly give all of his/her food and clothing to Africa, starving him/her to nothing but a pound?

It's not an all or nothing situation. You fail to realise that they too are this way also because we fought to make them this way. We can have everything we want while letting them have everything they want, too. Our governments don't let that happen, becuase it's not in their interests. Also, I don't care what our ancestors would have wanted.

You seem to be saying that because developed countries have exploited their resources more cunningly and been more successful in war, we must be better than the rest so we deserve a greater slice of the pie.

Different strokes for different folks man, you have your own opinion it seems lol.

 

[BlindMessiah94]

Considering how life isn't exactly a cake walk for me, and I've had to earn everything I have, I will never feel guilty, nor should I. The people that feel guilty for the things they have in life need to ask themselves why they feel said guilt. If they acquired everything they own through hard work and sacrifice then what is there to feel guilty about?

hmm my point is that people work hard and sacrifice a great deal more for a great deal less though

I get that. But I must say, I will never feel guilty nor apologize for what I have in this life. Everything I have has been earned. My family was poor and we immigrated here to Canada from India. We had to struggle a lot to even become as "well off" as we are now.
I know a lot of the people don't have the same opportunities and just can't change their circumstances. But my father found a way, and he had it bad as any story you will hear.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm from the Conservative Party. What do you think my views are?

The British Conservative Party? Batshit insane for the most.

 

[Kayevcee]

I don't think 'guilty' is the right word. I think other Escapists have covered that in sufficient detail already. Certainly I'm concerned about the breathtaking gulf between standards of living in developed countries and holes like Zimbabwe that are completely rogered with no end in sight. That's why I spend most of my spare cash on a home-made fundraising project to raise money for Mary's Meals. (www.marysmeals.org)

I'm also going back to uni to do a Ph.D specialising in air & water quality, and I hope to work on low-cost desalination equipment for folk without clean water. So... I'm concerned, so I'm doing something about it. If you feel guilty about the massive gulf between the haves and the have-nots, why not take some time to find out how you can do your bit to redress it? Find out who your local MP/congressman is and start giving them a hard time about unfair trade and suchlike. Contact your local supermarket and see what they're doing about ethically-sourced products. Start big, start small, whatever. If you feel strongly about it, just go and do something to make it better.

-Nick

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

My fellow escapists...

I encountered a moral dilemma today and am interested in surveying you guys:

20% of the world's population has 80% of the wealth (this comes from Pareto's Principle)

I live in a very wealthy country, and as I consume my quality goods and services, I can never shake this guilt. I wonder: "How is this at all fair? My laptop costs more than a great number of people in the world earn in a year".

How does this make you feel?

P.S. I understand a lot of you will reply with things like "just stop caring, thats how I get through the day", or "perhaps you've never had a double quarter pounder while you're sobering up after a night out partying in the city". Do not waste your time, go to another thread.

Dont feel guikty if you worked hard to earn your money or goods. If you did do the work, you deserve it. So did you work for your money?

you got notin to be guilty of, who better than an workin manto receive pay. I guess you could donate it to a charity if you feel guilty, Im just sayin work comes with reward. Better you than a poor, lazy man on welfare who has the ability to work but just doesnt. Think about it.

I suppose so, I never got pocket money or anything without some sort of work involved. And then after I left home I've worked for my money as well.

 

[Valkyrie101]

Yeah, but that 20% wasn't just granted that wealth at random. We worked for it, we earned. We innovated and built. We created that wealth, so no, I don't feel guilty that the others can't keep up.

 

[General Ken8]

I don't know, my lifestyle is just what I'm used to, and I'm sure those who face poverty and danger in their everyday lives are used to it.
I do feel sympathy for the poor and hungry, but then again that could be anyone, whether it's a homeless person in the U.S. who earned his life or a child in Africa who was born into poverty.

 

[jef91]

I do feel guilty. I can never get myself to do anything about it though, and I suppose that's where all the guilt's coming from. Still, it's depressing to think about how I spend enough money on silly things like video games and music to feed several families in Third World countries.

What's also bugging me is that I love video games, and I play them frequently, but it's a luxury hobby that consumes an awful lot of resources. I think it's sad that a lot of resources have to be spent just so I can shoot random dudes in the face. And still I can't get myself do the slightest thing about it.

This is very similar to how I feel. I still love gaming, and I would even go so far as to say I am addicted to it. I love music even more I just wish everyone could enjoy a more acceptable lifestyle, relatively speaking. At least music is something that can't be taken away from you.

True, music is great that way. One of the best things in life if you ask me. Cultures all over the world have music, and they all find comfort and solace in it somehow. It's one of the simplest pleasures in life, but also one of the absolute greatest.

Well said

 

[jef91]

Yes I do feel guilty.

That's one of the reasons I decided to become a scientist. The fact of the matter is that the world has NEVER been fair. You think income inequality and wealth distribution is bad today, heck, go back 200 years and it was even worse.

Politics is just management. You will NEVER solve poverty or diseases with politics. Politics can't create, just re-arrange. But science CAN create, science HAS improved the lives of millions, no BILLIONS, of people around the world. The ENORMOUS population boom that occurred during the 20th century alone (global population exploded from below 2 billion to nearly 7 billion), PROVES that antibiotics, water-filter technology and improved surgical procedures have made the world safer for humans.

Huge problems remain. Technology even creates some of those problems. But at the end of the day, just sitting around hoping for a solution to how unfair the world is will do nothing. Praying to an imaginary patriarch in the sky will not cure Polio or help excise cancer from a man's lungs. Only science can do that!

So yes, I did feel guilty. But then I found a way to stop feeling guilty - if I use the resources that have been given to me to help make the world better, then I would have payed back any debt I owed.

So if you feel guilty, then do something to make the world a fairer place. Do SCIENCE!

Wow thank you for your input!

 

[jef91]

My fellow escapists...

I encountered a moral dilemma today and am interested in surveying you guys:

20% of the world's population has 80% of the wealth (this comes from Pareto's Principle)

I live in a very wealthy country, and as I consume my quality goods and services, I can never shake this guilt. I wonder: "How is this at all fair? My laptop costs more than a great number of people in the world earn in a year".

How does this make you feel?

P.S. I understand a lot of you will reply with things like "just stop caring, thats how I get through the day", or "perhaps you've never had a double quarter pounder while you're sobering up after a night out partying in the city". Do not waste your time, go to another thread.

I don't feel especially guilty since generally speaking the nations that have most of the wealth worked long and hard to get where they are, and obtained most of it competitively.

The issue of "standard of living" has been one for a very long time, and it is very true that the entire global population could not be supported at the level your typical American lives at. I've read some studies on what a truely "fair" distribution of wealth would look like (global communism) and while potentially appealing to the third world, I doubt most people in first world nations would appreciate it.

There are of course solutions, one of course is for there to be less people on the planet. I think overpopulation is one of the things at the root of almost all social problems.

Another is a "whatever it takes" approach to space travel and exploration, which can be used to obtain more resources and of course living space. This however mandates obtaining a world unity, and that isn't going to be entirely pleasant, even with the simple spread of ideas doing mot of the work, it's still going to involve a bit of conquest, and not to mention taking action to ensure ideas can be spread (I see current issues like national firewalls and the like as a global crisis on a number of differant levels).

At the end of the day, I really don't feel much guilt, especially when you consider the origins of the US and what happened over generations (even if some of it was quite ruthless) to get to this point. While I look towards solutions like space travel and the like, I freely admit I have no intention of giving up my standard of living (such as it is) for anyone else.
Each generation of our forefathers worked, lived, and died so their descendants could live better lives, and in our case it worked, which is why we are where we are. It didn't work out for everyone on the planet where the same thing was being attempted, but that's simply the way things are.

Also one of the reasons why I am very wary of nations like China is simply that they have so much of the world's population, and are striving for a higher standard of living themselves. With a higher chinese standard of living of course comes a massive need for resources, and those resources have to come from somewhere, meaning that simply by the numbers their success means a lower standard of living (eventually much, much lower) for nations like the US, Canada, and the more prosperous European nations. Something to keep in mind when looking at world politics and the like. It's no great moral battle between good and evil on this level but "us vs. them" and it's also why many people have said that an East Vs. West war is inevitable no matter what happens, and it's likely going to be a war based entirely off of economics, division of resources, and simple living space.



Also, I think a global disaster that kills off vast numbers of people internationally, whether it be a sickness, war, zombies, or whatever else, would be a good thing, providing people embrace Zero Population Growth, or at least action is taken to prevent a baby boom, afterwards. Less people means less ways those resources have to go, equating to higher standards of living, less need for conflict, and of course giving the planet a chance to replentish itself.

Well, enough rambling. It's no secret that the planet is a mess. That's one of the reasons why I look up into space as the solution, no matter what it takes to get there.

I have often thought about the (somewhat inhumane) idea of "culling" population growth, and I always come to the same conclusion as you have. Unless we leave this planet, it is a logical solution. So I completely agree with you in that respect, however I'm in two minds (logical and humane) about the idea.

Great answer though! Thanks very much!

 

[Marter]

I feel just fine with what I have, and have yet to feel any guilt.

 

[liveslowdiefast]

But I also feel more luckey that i was born in England.

 

[soilent]

I'm broke as shit, dont you dare expect me to be ashamed.

 

[DocBalance]

I don't do guilt anymore. I solve problems, and move on. As this is a problem cannot be solved, I move on and let it deal with itself.

 

[jef91]

Cheers everyone you guys helped a lot!

 

[zombiesinc]

I am grateful for the people in my life, the security and comfort I have, and the opportunities I have been given.

But that isn't to say I never take things for granted, something I am constantly struggling to not do.

 

[Frungy]

I agree that another upper class would take the previous one's place, and I don't really know anything about South Africa (apart from watching Invictus lol). Again, I will argue however that wealth is not always money, and could be freedom of speech, or clean water and so on.

Invictus was a great movie, for me it really captured the spirit of that moment, which has sadly passed if you read the latest Amnesty International report on South Africa.

Sadly wealth in a capitalist society tends to translate into things like freedom of speech, clean water, etc. because it is power. If you can afford a lawyer to sue someone who says something you don't like then you can tie them up in court and make them so miserable that they stop speaking out regardless of whether what they said is protected speech or not. Sadly justice is also for sale and I've seen this happen so many times it makes me heartsick. Likewise with clean water, access to education, medical care, and everything else in life.

A lot of people blame this on capitalism, but in truth it's humanity that's the problem. Even in the absence of money in the communist states there were massive abuses of power.

 

[Shotgun_Ninja]

To the OP: Have you ever considered joining the peace corps.? Or maybe go to Haiti. Hell, work at a soup kitchen on your weekends. If you feel guilty for the luxury you have, perhaps you should try to make a positive difference in the lives of those less fortunate.