Portal SPOILERS Thread
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You nailed my major frustration with Half-Life 2 right there. You can stop the fall of a whoknowshowheavy section of building superstructure, then toss it merrily aside, but you can't budge a metal fence unless it's boarded up in spots.Katana314 said:
I think there's another layer of meaning going on in Portal and Still Alive.
I think the lines...
"Now these points of data make a beautiful mind
And we're out of beta we're releasing on time"
...allude to the reality of the game shipping and touch on the idea that Portal itself is a tiptoe into a new area for Valve and they were using us, the purchasers of The Orange Box, as test subjects for the whole concept.
From the reception so far, and the fact that people like me are currently COMPLETELY obsessed with this game and it's subtext, that for Valve this was a triumph and they've probably already noted it's a huge success.
Also, if I ever meet Erik Wolpaw in person, I will immediately poke my own eyes out for it is blasphemy to behold God.
I think the lines...
"Now these points of data make a beautiful mind
And we're out of beta we're releasing on time"
...allude to the reality of the game shipping and touch on the idea that Portal itself is a tiptoe into a new area for Valve and they were using us, the purchasers of The Orange Box, as test subjects for the whole concept.
From the reception so far, and the fact that people like me are currently COMPLETELY obsessed with this game and it's subtext, that for Valve this was a triumph and they've probably already noted it's a huge success.
Also, if I ever meet Erik Wolpaw in person, I will immediately poke my own eyes out for it is blasphemy to behold God.
Merlynn's post is really insightful, and it may be quite accurate. However, I think the theory confuses the game with the fiction. I agree with Geoffrey42's assertion that GLaDOS is not infallible and probably made several mistakes that allowed Chell to escape.
The designers could have created a game in which you play as the test subject before Chell, who ran the courses without noticing the secret rooms and was incinerated at the end. That would not have been very fun. Just because the player/Chell defeats GLaDOS and escapes at the end doesn't mean that that was what GLaDOS intended.
Merlynn's theory does not seem to take into account the strong suggestion by the game and the commentary that GLaDOS is not mentally sound. The commentary states that Aperture Science employed an emergency red phone in case GLaDOS malfunctioned and that this system did not work. Also, AS began work on the AI when the DOS was in "a state of more or less basic functionality." This sounds like the DOS was in beta, which says something about how much testing AS did on their computer systems. Its likely that the AI was given similar (lack of) attention. GLaDOS bears all the marks of an insane AI, and the idea that she is in fact only testing Chell as part of a super-soldier project seems too convenient.
I have my own theory as to what's going on. The short of it is that GLaDOS was developed to assist in testing at the Enrichment Center. She does not have full control of the facility, though. The Center's administrators found out about the Black Mesa Incident first and locked down the Enrichment Center to protect the employees. At this point GLaDOS has nothing to do but develop and test the portal gun and keep the humans inside (where it's safe.)
Eventually GLaDOS perfects the portal gun, but she still has the imperative to test it. So, she begins testing human behavior and psychology with it. For their part, the humans take advantage of the tests to attempt to escape, leaving trails and supplies along the way and even sabotaging test chambers. Some humans go insane from repeated trials and sit scribbling on the walls.
Frustrated with the test subjects' noncooperation, GLaDOS makes the tests more difficult and dangerous, and begins killing test subjects at their conclusion. However, because she is an unstable AI in a poorly maintained facility, her efforts are not completely effective.
This is where the game begins. Chell initially performs the tests without protest, but the secret rooms make her distrustful of GLaDOS. At the end of test 19, Chell escapes the test facility proper. At this point, GLaDOS is helpless to contain Chell except through persuasion, threats, and opportunistic attacks.
Instead of escaping, Chell decides to find and destroy GLaDOS. She succeeds, but is unaware of GLaDOS's backups.
So there it is. I admit that the theory isn't flawless. I may be depending too much on GLaDOS being insane, but the concept of an insane AI is more believable than the suggestion that GLaDOS meant for Chell to escape. Not that I think the idea is impossible. In fact, Merlynn's theory does a better job of explaining everything than mine, if you can accept that GLaDOS is infallible.
I have a longer writeup of my theory. If there's interest, I can post it. This post is getting long as it is. Just one question for Geoffery42: Where'd you get the idea that Chell is the founder's daughter?
The designers could have created a game in which you play as the test subject before Chell, who ran the courses without noticing the secret rooms and was incinerated at the end. That would not have been very fun. Just because the player/Chell defeats GLaDOS and escapes at the end doesn't mean that that was what GLaDOS intended.
Merlynn's theory does not seem to take into account the strong suggestion by the game and the commentary that GLaDOS is not mentally sound. The commentary states that Aperture Science employed an emergency red phone in case GLaDOS malfunctioned and that this system did not work. Also, AS began work on the AI when the DOS was in "a state of more or less basic functionality." This sounds like the DOS was in beta, which says something about how much testing AS did on their computer systems. Its likely that the AI was given similar (lack of) attention. GLaDOS bears all the marks of an insane AI, and the idea that she is in fact only testing Chell as part of a super-soldier project seems too convenient.
I have my own theory as to what's going on. The short of it is that GLaDOS was developed to assist in testing at the Enrichment Center. She does not have full control of the facility, though. The Center's administrators found out about the Black Mesa Incident first and locked down the Enrichment Center to protect the employees. At this point GLaDOS has nothing to do but develop and test the portal gun and keep the humans inside (where it's safe.)
Eventually GLaDOS perfects the portal gun, but she still has the imperative to test it. So, she begins testing human behavior and psychology with it. For their part, the humans take advantage of the tests to attempt to escape, leaving trails and supplies along the way and even sabotaging test chambers. Some humans go insane from repeated trials and sit scribbling on the walls.
Frustrated with the test subjects' noncooperation, GLaDOS makes the tests more difficult and dangerous, and begins killing test subjects at their conclusion. However, because she is an unstable AI in a poorly maintained facility, her efforts are not completely effective.
This is where the game begins. Chell initially performs the tests without protest, but the secret rooms make her distrustful of GLaDOS. At the end of test 19, Chell escapes the test facility proper. At this point, GLaDOS is helpless to contain Chell except through persuasion, threats, and opportunistic attacks.
Instead of escaping, Chell decides to find and destroy GLaDOS. She succeeds, but is unaware of GLaDOS's backups.
So there it is. I admit that the theory isn't flawless. I may be depending too much on GLaDOS being insane, but the concept of an insane AI is more believable than the suggestion that GLaDOS meant for Chell to escape. Not that I think the idea is impossible. In fact, Merlynn's theory does a better job of explaining everything than mine, if you can accept that GLaDOS is infallible.
I have a longer writeup of my theory. If there's interest, I can post it. This post is getting long as it is. Just one question for Geoffery42: Where'd you get the idea that Chell is the founder's daughter?
I have no idea. I got the idea in my head, and it stuck. I thought the end credits said Chell Johnson, instead of just Chell. But apparently I'm not the only one. Other people think this. So its either subliminal messaging, or some tidbit that everyone saw, but no one remembers where, or just, ya know, mass hallucination.Frag.Stag said:
I believe it has something to do with the "brain backups" and the fact there is no necessities in the starting chamber, so she could not live there. I think she is just a clone. The messages written on the walls were written by you...or rather a past clone of you, that failed. Every iteration of you becomes smarter until you are able to beat the "game"...this is GLaDOS's goal...
There's a difference between something being dumb versus smart, and something being infallible versus fallible. Just because GLaDOS made the challenges, and is programmed to study test subjects and help develop the Portal gun, doesn't mean she's infallible, or that there aren't holes in her programming which lead to Chell's escape.Merlynn said:
Personally though, the fact that the "escape" signs all lead to GLaDOS's lair is sort of interesting. It doesn't seem compatible with the idea that others have come before, and are leading the way to freedom. To me, it seems likely that GLaDOS either intended Chell to do what she did, or at least planned for the eventuality. All of the stuff about super soldier and whatnot, still unsubstantiated by anything in the game.
I think that the player character might have been Eli Vance's wife; it would explain where the artificial leg came from, why Eli is so afraid of Aperture Science and why there is a mild resemblance between her and the woman in the picture of the Vance Family. From the look of the world where you came out, the portal storm might not have even occurred yet, it's pristine and calm and the structures like the security gate still stand whereas if the combine were present, they probably would have taken control of the facility in some way, at least top side.
As for GLaDOS and the test, I think that it was actually intended for her to be destroyed as a part of the test, as a trial by fire sort of thing with unplanned intelligent variables. Perhaps that's why she killed everyone with the neurotoxin gas... Clues may have been left intentionally by AS to lead subjects along and were used as refuges by actual test subjects, hence their state when you were tested. After the test, the song says that the information has been sent, and that they are releasing on time, which could mean that GLaDOS sent the test information and finished design for the portal gun to Aperture headquarters. The Borealis could be that HQ, where the information was sent, hence why it may be important for the combine to locate it. Imagine Combine soldiers armed with shotguns and portal devices, they'd kill any fleshy organism that stood in their way with little to no losses.
I don't think that Glados had much control over the facility except through the reconfiguring of room panels, which means that many of the test chambers could have been adjusted variations of the same area to save space. She could deploy turrets, boxes, change walls, add or take away staircases, but when it came to real maintanence or cleaning, she was relatively helpless.
As for GLaDOS and the test, I think that it was actually intended for her to be destroyed as a part of the test, as a trial by fire sort of thing with unplanned intelligent variables. Perhaps that's why she killed everyone with the neurotoxin gas... Clues may have been left intentionally by AS to lead subjects along and were used as refuges by actual test subjects, hence their state when you were tested. After the test, the song says that the information has been sent, and that they are releasing on time, which could mean that GLaDOS sent the test information and finished design for the portal gun to Aperture headquarters. The Borealis could be that HQ, where the information was sent, hence why it may be important for the combine to locate it. Imagine Combine soldiers armed with shotguns and portal devices, they'd kill any fleshy organism that stood in their way with little to no losses.
I don't think that Glados had much control over the facility except through the reconfiguring of room panels, which means that many of the test chambers could have been adjusted variations of the same area to save space. She could deploy turrets, boxes, change walls, add or take away staircases, but when it came to real maintanence or cleaning, she was relatively helpless.
I don't see the need to be disparaging, especially when in general, we're in agreement.Merlynn said:
I agree with you, in that it was not an oversight, and that GLaDOS intended things to happen the way they did, at least up to a certain point (whether she intended Chell to survive the battle at the end, I think would still be up in the air.)
I simply don't buy that there is no room for the possibility that GLaDOS didn't just have a blindspot, (be it a logical blindspot in the programming or otherwise). I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm saying that your sense of absolute righteousness is ungrounded.
On a side note: do have some fetish for that extraneous -e? Or are you talking about the alternate/bizarro/nega HL universe with Chelle Magnusson, GOrDOS, and Gladys Freewoman? Maybe that's the issue here: you're not even talking about the same storyline as everyone else. It all makes sense now...
Wait, what? What marks are you talking about? By deathtrap, I assume you mean the fire room. I don't remember any markings in the fire room.
I think you need to be less serious, this is a video game, there is no definite right or wrong, nor is there a master story; reading through the commentary the ideas behind the game evolved repeatedly during production, until they reached the state we see now and if there is going to be any further development, it'll probably evolve again and so on. What it comes down to is that nobody wants to play a game they can't win, just like no body wants to see a Bond film where the world gets blown up as the evil mastermind intended. It doesn't mean the antagonist wants the protagonist to win, it simply means they made a mistake.
Furthermore, read my post before you gloat about how wrong I am. I think, in my opinion, that the entire game WAS a test, but not for some super soldier project, even the history on the web site leans towards it being about the portal gun. The spring back leg braces prevented falling damage so users could successfully use momentum without killing themselves, and also served as a visual excuse to why the character didn't take damage when falling. As for regenerative health, again, it's just a part of gameplay, after all, it would suck to make it through the whole game and then die because you were just barely inside the explosion radius of a rocket.
The sum of my idea is that you happen to be playing the character that would later become Eli's wife/ Alyx's mother and that GLaDOS was supposed to be the final challenge in a series of practical tests of how the portal gun could be used in combat and maitanence operations. GLaDOS, realizing this, killed her creators and attempted to preserve herself through psychological warfare against the player and previous test subjects. The clues were intentionally put there by Aperture Science to lead the subjects along, but rather than giving them just a nudge in the right direction, subjects took refuge in these permanent areas of safety until they had to leave for food or other reasons, at which time, GLaDOS probably killed them. Only some portions of the facility can be changed.
I don't know where you got the brain scan idea from either, GLaDOS talks about the player's corporate profile, suggesting that she worked there and then goes on to try and demean the player by going on about how "liked by no one, would be missed by no one, missed by no one, NO one, NO ONE!"
Furthermore, read my post before you gloat about how wrong I am. I think, in my opinion, that the entire game WAS a test, but not for some super soldier project, even the history on the web site leans towards it being about the portal gun. The spring back leg braces prevented falling damage so users could successfully use momentum without killing themselves, and also served as a visual excuse to why the character didn't take damage when falling. As for regenerative health, again, it's just a part of gameplay, after all, it would suck to make it through the whole game and then die because you were just barely inside the explosion radius of a rocket.
The sum of my idea is that you happen to be playing the character that would later become Eli's wife/ Alyx's mother and that GLaDOS was supposed to be the final challenge in a series of practical tests of how the portal gun could be used in combat and maitanence operations. GLaDOS, realizing this, killed her creators and attempted to preserve herself through psychological warfare against the player and previous test subjects. The clues were intentionally put there by Aperture Science to lead the subjects along, but rather than giving them just a nudge in the right direction, subjects took refuge in these permanent areas of safety until they had to leave for food or other reasons, at which time, GLaDOS probably killed them. Only some portions of the facility can be changed.
I don't know where you got the brain scan idea from either, GLaDOS talks about the player's corporate profile, suggesting that she worked there and then goes on to try and demean the player by going on about how "liked by no one, would be missed by no one, missed by no one, NO one, NO ONE!"
Hostility often does make it more difficult. Honey, vinegar, etc.Merlynn said:
We know GLaDOS has the ability to flood the whole facility with neurotoxins. Thus, she has a means of killing which is not equivalent to access. In the same vein, we have no proof that she killed everyone. The facility may have been abandoned after everything went to hell on Bring Your Daughter To Work Day, or any other number of possible explanations for why you are all alone there with GLaDOS. I've already stated that I think the signs intentionally lead to GLaDOS/final test/whatnot. I have no opinion on whether GLaDOS put them there, or if the scientists did.
Or that they left the facility, or the 7 Hour War happened, and the Combine killed them or shipped them off to the concentration camps.
Ha. While your suggested back story is fun, and does not in any way contradict what we are presented with in Portal, making it entirely plausible, I see no reason that it is somehow more likely than the alternatives. More on that later.
Chell was altered, by adding heel springs, which make her a more capable wielder of the portal gun. I choose to throw OUT her ability to regenerate, because it is a common videogame trope which has never before required explanation, or inclusion in the plot. From my point of view, your entire super-soldier hypothesis rests on the regeneration. I agree that the point of the tests is to test either Chell+gun, or Chell, and not the gun itself (the Portal gun works, GLaDOS knows this.) And, no, product testing isn't about finding out if the product is safe for everyone. Product testing is to see if the product does what it is intended to do. Safety has jack-squat to do with it.
I have no real objection to this, except your references to success. You're assuming prior test subjects would've gone through the exact same trials, of which we have very little evidence.
There is no marker in the incinerator room, so, no, NOT "Fact". I don't feel the need to "convince" you otherwise, I'm simply trying to point out the lack of concrete-ness to your basis. GLaDOS may just be nutz. She may not have intended you to survive the fire room. The signs leading to her lair may have been a precaution for IF the test subject evaded incineration. Yes, you and I could've designed a better death trap if we had wanted to, but that does not mean GLaDOS had the ability. Also, you assume that someone else escaped incineration before, which is what would've given GLaDOS the impetus to improve her design. Chell may be the first subject to escape that room. Maybe even the first to be taken to that room. Neither the game, nor you, have provided any evidence to suggest otherwise.
GLaDOS had backups. True. No one has stated that GLaDOS is an insane computer who doesn't think she can actually be destroyed, so what does that have to do with the current topic? I think it's known that the end fight is not with the real GLaDOS, or the whole of GLaDOS, or even the last of GLaDOS. The end credits dispel that notion. But, whether that room full of AI modules was made by GLaDOS or by the scientists, it may have just been as backups, upgrades, or whatnot. The existence of the room full of spare parts in no way supports your implications.
Potentially, the incinerator is her only means of killing you. And given what we know about the reconfigurability of the rooms, there's nothing to indicate that she has the ability to hang something over top of the fire. The statement by GLaDOS can either be seen as knowledge being imparted by her, or an out-loud realization on her part.
I'll re-iterate before I quit: Your backstory is great, and in no way do I think it couldn't be true (or that it would be a bad thing if Valve stole it). But, given what we know, I see room for lots of other explanations for what happens in the game, apart from your own narrow interpretation. To that end, be flexible, and please, lay off the vitriol.
There is no evidence that GLaDOS built the facility or has the means to reconfigure it in any meaningful way.
Therefore she always acts through intermediaries (turrents, doors, platforms) because that's all she CAN do (aside from flooding the area with neurotoxins).
Therefore she always acts through intermediaries (turrents, doors, platforms) because that's all she CAN do (aside from flooding the area with neurotoxins).
Umm, am I doing something wrong? Whenever I try to load the link in the first post, I just get a blank black screen with a line for green text. No matter what I type, nothing happens. I've tried entering in the user name cjohnson and nothing. Is it just not loading right?
Merlynn: On the site, it says the scientists were on lock down for no apparent reason. It's possible that they died of starvation or other causes in rooms/corridors behind doors you can't open in game. It is possible Valve decided that the scientists existence was not a major factor in gameplay so they didn't bother to incorporate it in game, or they didn't make any facts out in the open to stir up ideas on what the back story may be. The world is bigger than what valve decides to incorporate in game. But more importantly, The game is rated T, as opposed to 'Halflife 2: Episode 2' and 'Team Fortress 2.' Flinging dead bodies across the room using portals might make some mothers angry (yes it's included in a bundle mainly for halflife, but parents could still let their kids play portal, but not the other games incuded, yadda, yadda, etc.)
You mentioned logic on how bodies should be strewn about the complex. Remember: you have a gun that can teleport you from point A to point B unrealistically. While Portal might be a realistic-like game.. it doesn't have to, by any means, be scientifically possible. It's just a way to kill time.
Also: Worrying about health packs in Portal wouldn't make it as enjoyable as it is now. It's about solving puzzles for fun (but becomes survival.) Not a gun slinging bomb fest like other FPS games. Besides, the only significant area in the game where you lose health (not including pits of instant-killing green water or energy balls, infinite loops or collisions with walls misusing momentum) is in levels 16 - 19 with turrets.
Really, it's just an original game with an original concept, does it really need a deeper meaning?
tl;dr version: it's a damn game, just play it.
And to OrenA: Type login, or use 'help' or '?' for commands
You mentioned logic on how bodies should be strewn about the complex. Remember: you have a gun that can teleport you from point A to point B unrealistically. While Portal might be a realistic-like game.. it doesn't have to, by any means, be scientifically possible. It's just a way to kill time.
Also: Worrying about health packs in Portal wouldn't make it as enjoyable as it is now. It's about solving puzzles for fun (but becomes survival.) Not a gun slinging bomb fest like other FPS games. Besides, the only significant area in the game where you lose health (not including pits of instant-killing green water or energy balls, infinite loops or collisions with walls misusing momentum) is in levels 16 - 19 with turrets.
Really, it's just an original game with an original concept, does it really need a deeper meaning?
tl;dr version: it's a damn game, just play it.
And to OrenA: Type login, or use 'help' or '?' for commands
You say potato, I say potato. We can go back and forth all day with "Yes it is!" "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!" "You're an idiot!" but it comes down to a matter of opinion, lacking other evidence.Merlynn said:
No game with health regeneration that I can remember explained it using the story. If you started taking too much damage, you retreated and hid in a corner until you got better, and then went on killing everyone. If you want to provide examples, I'd be happy to provide counter-examples, but I'm not going to go to the effort if all you're going to reply with is: "But that's not true."
Please, please stop doing that. You might tire of saying the same things over and over again, but I'm tiring of pointing out the same caveats in response each time. Condescension never really helps anyone, least of all you, with convincing me.
I somewhat agree that there are two possibilities: GLaDOS killed everyone, or GLaDOS didn't kill everyone. pewlzclowzd makes a decent point that you aren't given free range of the facility, and all of the dead bodies could be in areas you don't have access to (and potentially, neither does GLaDOS). If we say that all of the end of the game was part of Testchamber 19 (as the savegame files do), and that everything was pre-arranged, you never really had access to the rest of facility. What exactly is the "blind spot" theory? I think I've used the term blind spot previously, but I'm not sure what you're referring to there. I also don't see how GLaDOS lack of death and mayhem in any way hurts the idea that she's unstable/out of control. So basically, I agree with your basis, which is that they may or may not be dead, and generally disagree with the conclusions you've drawn, based on which of those two may be correct. And, as always, I've been in general agreement from the get-go that it was GLaDOS's ultimate goal for Chell to succeed, one way or the other.
This is an excellent, excellent point. Though, based on the first turret chamber, with the android references, it seems that instructions given during a chamber are prescripted (high likelihood) whereas statements made between chambers may or may not be, with no way for us to really know.