Pre-orders: What's the big deal?

[bug_of_war]

The problem with pre-orders comes hand in hand with the major remaining issue of digital distribution:

How do you recover from a bad purchase?

The reason people dislike preorders is because they are blatantly anti-consumer. They give no benefit to the customer and lock them into a purchase of an item that they have no way to know the quality of. You get shit like Colonial Marines, where millions of preorders went through, and the game was utter shit and the customer is left at the mercy of their store of choice whether or not they can get their money back. It's an atrocious business practice that actively punishes the consumer in order for the publisher to have a more solid bottom line.

I would disagree. I mean yes, PC wise it's waaay more a risk as you can't get your money back (unless you purchased through Origin) and trading in is non existent, but in general I don't see it as a bad thing. The benefit for consumers buying the disk is that they are guaranteed a copy on the day it comes out. If you really want the game, you don't have to worry about the store selling it running out before you get the chance to purchase it. As for the "You don't know the quality of the game argument", that's more a trust issue. Yes it'd be easy for a company to do a bait and switch, I'm not saying Colonial Marines doesn't exist, but what's the next best thing to do? Most "professional" reviews don't come out until a few days before or on the day itself that the game is released, and regular people still have to buy the game to then let other people know how the game is. So either you start putting trust into "professional" reviewers or you throw a few people under the bus so that you come out with the benefit.

I do understand that it can be used to fuck people over, trust me, I got fucked over by PAYDAY 2, I know that feeling of betrayal. However I don't see why I should condemn a practice for the minority of bad occurrences.

 

[bug_of_war]

But I don't speak for everyone these are really just the broad outlines, if you want more specifics I'd recommend these for proper incite, escapist's very own Jim Sterling I think explains it very well.

While I do enjoy his content, There are a few instances where I just can't agree with him. I understand his points, I really do, but I feel as though his view is a little too extreme. I believe he's fully on the side of the consumer, but I just don't always agree with his opinion.

The "gonna buy it anyway so might as well pre-order" mindset is absolutely poisonous

I agree but that's not exactly what I meant. What I meant by that was that for people invested in a series, for example Assassin's Creed, The Witcher, Call of Duty, that's an instant buy. It doesn't matter what anyone says, that series just gets you, you love it, you trust it, you're gonna buy it. However, for new IPs, or games that are maybe a little way into the series and you've just taken notice of it and are kinda interested in it and are thinking you'll probably buy it, pre-ordering isn't really something that I think people are stupid not for doing. For example, I was interested in The Last Of Us and Watch Dogs but I didn't pre order them because it's not a game that I'm really sure I'd buy.

 

[bug_of_war]

Well let's put it this way I live by a simple rule. You want my money now... you give me the product now. Also the fact that it simply has been abused so much in the past has left people rather shy. It's why they've had to resort to throwing in exclusives to get people to buy. But that just makes people all the more suspicious. Me. I'm in no hurry, console or other wise. If the game is good it'll be easy to get a copy after release.... if the game is bad well... money saved.


See like a few, we see pre-orders as a way the companies are using to grab consumer cash quickly before the word gets out how bad the game is or how bland it is. As for Aliens... historically I'm inclined to wait until it's proven itself because Colonial marines looked pretty good in the distributed demos and videos... we remember how that game turned out.

Fair enough, I can see your point.

 

[Something Amyss]

I still don't really see a positive reason for pre-orders. They're asking you to invest in blind faith a game that's less and less likely to be complete because it makes their job easier and you get a skin or two out of it usually.

Can't say I would agree with the " its greedy!" part. I think that charge has become so generic, I doubt most whom use it so much wouldn't know what real Greed is.

More to the point, accusing a corporation of being greedy is like accusing someone of being hungry. It's sort of a matter of course.

 

[Agayek]

I would disagree. I mean yes, PC wise it's waaay more a risk as you can't get your money back (unless you purchased through Origin) and trading in is non existent, but in general I don't see it as a bad thing. The benefit for consumers buying the disk is that they are guaranteed a copy on the day it comes out. If you really want the game, you don't have to worry about the store selling it running out before you get the chance to purchase it. As for the "You don't know the quality of the game argument", that's more a trust issue. Yes it'd be easy for a company to do a bait and switch, I'm not saying Colonial Marines doesn't exist, but what's the next best thing to do? Most "professional" reviews don't come out until a few days before or on the day itself that the game is released, and regular people still have to buy the game to then let other people know how the game is. So either you start putting trust into "professional" reviewers or you throw a few people under the bus so that you come out with the benefit.

I do understand that it can be used to fuck people over, trust me, I got fucked over by PAYDAY 2, I know that feeling of betrayal. However I don't see why I should condemn a practice for the minority of bad occurrences.

I don't think I've ever not been able to find a copy of a game I wanted on release date. Once I've seen the local gamestop run out of copies of something (I think it was Halo 3 but I can't remember for sure), and I walked across the mall to the Target where they had a couple dozen. Putting money down to reserve a copy is functionally meaningless, it doesn't change anything. At absolute most, you save a trip to a second store.

As for your question: The alternative to preordering is to wait for reviews to come out, find out whether or not the game is actually good, then decide whether or not to buy it. Preorders are literal leaps of blind faith banking on the fact that the game's PR engine hasn't lied to you, when the entire purpose of said PR engines is to lie to you. It's madness.

 

[Aesir23]

Generally when I pre-order it's because the game is either going to be a Day 1 or Week 1 buy for my anyway and I happen to like the pre-order bonuses. It's also so I can guarantee I have a copy on release day if it's a game that's receiving a lot of hype. I remember trying to purchase The Last of Us but it was sold out for a month at my local EB Games before I could get my hands on it. I could possibly have tried the Wal-Mart next door but I would sooner set myself on fire than spend money there.

I don't do this all of the time, however. It's usually only when I trust the developer with a particular series so I definitely tend to pre-order sequels more than new IPs. It hasn't steered me wrong yet but I also don't have particularly high standards.

 

[doomrider7]

Why do I pre-order? Why, for all of the free swag that I get from it! I'm talking figurines, art books, collector tins, the works.

That and I can continually pay money towards it since it is basically on layaway. Why would I pay $60 upfront when I could pay $10 over six weeks?

People have no idea how much this helps and to answer to a previous comment, no to the whole, "Well I'm buying it anyway" mentality being poisonous. I've had Pikmin 3, Rayman Legends, Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warrirs, both versions of Smash Bros., Bayonetta 2, Tales of Xilia 2, and God knows what else and there is absolutely NO WAY I could've afforded to buy any of those as easily as I did(or soon will) had it not been for being able to pre-order them and be able to pay them off in installments not to mention critical research to see if it's something I'd want. And that's what it all comes down to, research. If a game looks interesting, follow up on all the details and see if it's something you'd enjoy. Watch all of the gameplay footage, developer updates, online info, etc.. Mind you I only pre-order stuff I know for a fact I will like and don't gamble on new IP's unless I've followed my own research guidelines.

Generally when I pre-order it's because the game is either going to be a Day 1 or Week 1 buy for my anyway and I happen to like the pre-order bonuses. It's also so I can guarantee I have a copy on release day if it's a game that's receiving a lot of hype. I remember trying to purchase The Last of Us but it was sold out for a month at my local EB Games before I could get my hands on it. I could possibly have tried the Wal-Mart next door but I would sooner set myself on fire than spend money there.

I don't do this all of the time, however. It's usually only when I trust the developer with a particular series so I definitely tend to pre-order sequels more than new IPs. It hasn't steered me wrong yet but I also don't have particularly high standards.

Yeah I was gonna comment on that as well. Certain games going out of print until following shipments can happen as well and then your left waiting for weeks sometimes before you can get your copy. Worst case could also be Limited CE's like the Tales of Symphonia collection that if you missed it you could see yourself paying upwards of $50+ more than what it would've cost you had you pre-ordered it.

 

[Windcaler]

Look at it this way. When you preorder something you're basicly gambling. You might win and get a great product that you feel is worth the money you spent. Or you could get Alien colonial marines, and theres also a chance that you could be strung along for years if not a decade in the case of Duke nukem forever. Not only that but you may never see the product actually come out (like in half life 3s case). You are putting blind faith in a developer to actually make a good product and deliver it. I dont think thats a friendly business model to consumers.

Now there are two cases where I feel pre-ordering is accetable. The first is when you get a discount to the item. The second is when you wouldnt have gotten the item without putting in a pre-order. Now with the games industry moving toward digital distribution the latter is not a concern and Ive only seen the former in the rarest of circumstances.

If you want to put your money toward blind faith then thats youre choice but if you're patient and read/listen to reviews after the product comes out you can ensure you arent going to get burned. I've been burned to many times so I choose to be patient. Its not like I loose anything worthwhile for it

 

[doomrider7]

Look at it this way. When you preorder something you're basicly gambling. You might win and get a great product that you feel is worth the money you spent. Or you could get Alien colonial marines, and theres also a chance that you could be strung along for years if not a decade in the case of Duke nukem forever. Not only that but you may never see the product actually come out (like in half life 3s case). You are putting blind faith in a developer to actually make a good product and deliver it. I dont think thats a friendly business model to consumers.

Now there are two cases where I feel pre-ordering is accetable. The first is when you get a discount to the item. The second is when you wouldnt have gotten the item without putting in a pre-order. Now with the games industry moving toward digital distribution the latter is not a concern and Ive only seen the former in the rarest of circumstances.

If you want to put your money toward blind faith then thats youre choice but if you're patient and read/listen to reviews after the product comes out you can ensure you arent going to get burned. I've been burned to many times so I choose to be patient. Its not like I loose anything worthwhile for it

I don't see the blind faith or gambling aspect if you're pre-ordering something like a Mario game or any other game from a major series with lots of titles to compare. Now if it's a new IP then yeah you better do some serious research, but if it's a sequel game or something similar then I don't see the problem.

 

[Windcaler]

I don't see the blind faith or gambling aspect if you're pre-ordering something like a Mario game or any other game from a major series with lots of titles to compare. Now if it's a new IP then yeah you better do some serious research, but if it's a sequel game or something similar then I don't see the problem.

Really? Ok Ill give a specific example, actually Ill give a few examples. Lets take the Dragon Age franchise. The first game to this day is widely considered one of the best RPGs, if not one of the best bioware RPGs, made in many years. Then we got dragon age 2 which wasnt anything like the original. The names were still there but the combat system was completely changed to be a more action oriented one (a bad at that IMO) that took away almost all the strategy the first game had. Then there were the choices which largely amounted to nothing. It was even more constrained then I felt the walking dead was. Ultimately this lead up to the adventure meaning nothing. Then there were the shallow characters compared to DA:O's pretty well done characters. Pretty much everything they did in that game was the polar opposite of what players liked about DA:O and today DA2 is condemned as a horrible game (I dont think it was the train wreck everyone else thinks it was but I still dont think it was even mediocre).

Second example. Many older gamers grew to love the fallout series from fallout 1 and 2. However the change from a strategy RPG to and FPS RPG in fallout 3 turned a lot of people off. Now I personally think Fallout 3 is amazing but I can see why many fans of the franchise think the changes werent good.

Third Example. X-com Enemy unknown (1993) is my personal favorite game of all time. However the hard choices system of Firaxis' X-com is something that turns me off. The strategy elements are bare bones, there are no invasions of your base, there are no alien bases besides the one story one, you cant have multiple X-com bases or teams to send out handling multiple missions simultaneoulsy, many of the original aliens like snakemen are missing making the games narrative less interesting with a coalition of alien races working together instead of the Ethereals just being dictators.

Fourth example. DMC: Devil may cry was IMO a step backwards for the franchise. It had a stronger narrative but the character design and characterization were way off to my expectations of Dante. However the worst part was the combat system was severely dumbed down making button spamming and getting a "SSS" rank easy while past games required timing and skillfull execution to get "SSS" rank.

In each of these cases preordering may have burned people who had preconceptions to these franchises. Like it or not there are many cases where franchises have changed either when going to other developers or behind a single developer. If you pre-order youre still going on blind faith that the new game in a franchise coming out is going to be like the old game in that franchise you liked.

 

[Vault101]

Well TS, I certainly hope you pre-ordered WATCH_DOGS. Of course, if you did, and still see no issues with pre-orders, then I think we need to have a serious discussion about your perception of value for money.

I did

but I don't blame the pre order I blame myself...and that's the risk you take when pre-ordering a game

that's not to say shitty practices like Aliens Colonial Marines are excusable....they aren't but no one is forcing anyone to pre-order

I'm also pre ordering DA:I and if it turns out to be another DA:2 then so be it....

[snip.

I don't think something like Fallout 3 counts....if you were a fan of the original then you KNOW that it is not the same kind of game...fallout new vegas on the other hand is a safer bet

theres also the fact that the seauquel tends to be good....so if the previous game was good and its a sequel sequel (not a decade later reboot) then its a safer bet

that said there are always many factors at play and unless you NEED that collectors edition youre better off not pre-ordering

 

[Auberon]

So far my only pre-order; just a few days ago Witcher 3. Because CDPR is awesome developer, that's why.

 

[Windcaler]

I don't think something like Fallout 3 counts....if you were a fan of the original then you KNOW that it is not the same kind of game...fallout new vegas on the other hand is a safer bet

theres also the fact that the seauquel tends to be good....so if the previous game was good and its a sequel sequel (not a decade later reboot) then its a safer bet

that said there are always many factors at play and unless you NEED that collectors edition youre better off not pre-ordering

When I first bought it I didnt know fallout 3 had been changed to a FPSRPG. I hadnt been following its development or anything. I just remember one day I logged into Amazon, saw fallout 3 and I immediately picked it up because I loved the previous fallout games. Of course back then I wasnt really an enthusiast that followed the news a lot. Still I could have been very disappointed, even today considering you can buy all the games someone could be very disappointed by the change.

That said, I personally love fallout 3. I dont mind the change to FPSRPG but the fact that I didnt mind isnt the point. Pre-ordering it before seeing it still could have burned me

For the sake of argument though, lets compare fallout 3 and new vegas. It seems about once a year we get a thread comparing the two and Ive been pretty vocal on the fact that I enjoy 3 more. Mostly due to New vegas' lanes of travel. Its not a bad game, its just not as good for what I would have expected. Even so pre-ordering blindly may have burned me because of my expectations from fallout 3. It doesnt have to be major change in gameplay. In new vegas' case it was simple bad map design that got in the way of making me think it was a great game instead of just good

 

[t00bz]

The biggest issue with pre-orders and the pre-order culture we have established is that we have told developers and publishers that we are willing to let them take parts of our games and hide them behind a pay wall. That's what all these 'pre-order exclusives' are. It's just content from the game that they cut and are only willing to give you if you are willing to shell out the $60 before the game has a single review.

Next, you have the whole idea of buying a game without knowing if it is any good or not. That takes a huge amount of trust and many of these companies do not deserve the trust that so many gamers are giving them.

 

[Vault101]

When I first bought it I didnt know fallout 3 had been changed to a FPSRPG. I hadnt been following its development or anything. I just remember one day I logged into Amazon, saw fallout 3 and I immediately picked it up because I loved the previous fallout games. Of course back then I wasnt really an enthusiast that followed the news a lot. Still I could have been very disappointed, even today considering you can buy all the games someone could be very disappointed by the change.

That said, I personally love fallout 3. I dont mind the change to FPSRPG but the fact that I didnt mind isnt the point. Pre-ordering it before seeing it still could have burned me

I guess it depends if you can blame people for not doing the research....I can't say I would have been all that sympathetic even if you didn't even read a review...even if you weren't into it at the time

way back when I expressed that I wanted a Wii for my B-day than an Xbox because I had always had Nintendo consoles and Nintendo was a safe bet right? while I was vaguely aware of the gaming landscape at the time I was out of the loop enough to not realise what I was missing out on (actually part of this could also have been due to the "bro-ness" of games at the time and me wanting to distance from that)

in retrospect the Wii was a poor choice...but could that have been prevented? eh

 

[EbonBehelit]

Why is it a big deal?

It's because there's far less motivation to make a game good if you're being paid before you've even finished making it.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I don't mind pre-orders...

But when it became a thing to include in-game bonuses for it that you can't get any other way it started to annoy me somewhat.

But then, that's because I have hoarder tendencies, and don't like missing out on things. However, I'm not made of money, so I can't justify getting this stuff...

Particularly irksome in that regard is 'retailer exclusive' pre-order bonuses.

Because it wasn't bad enough that there was content you could only get if you pre-order, now there's several different kinds, and you would have to pre-order the game multiple times over to get it all...

Bleh. XD

 

[lachlan4567]

One word Atlus,
Or Nis
Anything by these publishers that you are interested in, you pre order the game, as it is a pain in the behind to find later down the line.
2 months of searching to find a copy of persona 4 golden, Danganronpa has always been hard to find.
I had to order my copy of persona 4 arena from Europe for the first one and America for the sequel.
They very much feel like, "fill the order number and have around 5 for retail sales that'll be enough right? right ?".

 

[josemlopes]

I dont get why people pre-order, is it that hard to wait a single more day to see if the game at least actually works properly (Battlefield 4, Brink, etc...)

Unless there is a really strong pre-order incentive (most of the times there isnt) I dont see the point.