Pre Toonami Anime.

[Agent Cross]

... it simply hopped onto what was a growing trend.p

1. You are thinking way too much about this. All this does is prove my point that most people think of Toonami for starting it, which is what I'm trying to correct. Foundations were laid sure, so what? Popularity of Anime in the U.S. did not arrive until Toonami in 1998 (and regardless of technicalities, I'm still going with 1998 for this project) Most people think Toonami as starting the Anime movement in the U.S. Argue with that all you want to, does not change the perception I'm correcting.

Also, Akira was released in the U.S. in 89. Limited Release, sure, but still in 1989.

2. What about Anime from the 80s, 70s and before that? Astroboy was the first popular anime in the U.S. and that was 60s. If you factor that stuff into your equations, you will see that anime was in the U.S. for Decades, but most remember the last 16 years.

3. Stop arguing. You're not going to win this debate. The best we will be able to do is stalemate each other and that's it.

I get where the idea that Toonami brought "the anime movement" to th U.S. comes from, but I wouldn't just slap a year on it. You forget OP, this was the 90's. You had a generation of kids growing up that loved their cartoons, and this was also amidst the explosion of the internet.

I loved Gundam and DBZ. Once I realized I could search for "anime" type shows on the web, I did so feverishly. At that time though I didn't really distinguish between cartoons and anime. I wouldn't expect most kids could really differentiate between the two. It was more of a, "Well you love Brand X. So how about a more mature Brand X?" Yes please!

It's like Arid Khandr said, "They hopped on a trend." The base audience was already there. I would credit Cartoon Network for seeing it, and then creating Toonami to take advantage of the growing interest in anime. All of it subjective, and therefore relative to certain ages/demographics of the time. If you were 8yrs old in 1998, then Toonami probably was your introduction to anime. And you were awed. If you were 18yrs old, then it was more of an, "About f@#cking time." It's a slippery slope depending on who you ask.

Anywho, I would give more credit to the dawn of the information age and teh webz.

 

[malestrithe]

Snip

Yes, I would slap a year on it for the simple reason that those that were aware of what's going on can see the difference between the quantity of what was available. Before 1998, it was mostly a few and far between thing and you had to go to that one video rental place that may carry it. Not even specialty move sellers carried it, if at all. After 1998, it was available in Wal-Mart. The point being is that you had to do more work getting your anime before my arbitrary cutoff.

What caused the Anime explosion was not this mythical foundation created by Akira, but by the popularity of Pokemon, which came out around the same time as Toonami. I will repeat this: there was ZERO interest in anime before 1998, except for the few diehards. Because companies saw the oogles and oogles of cash being made by this, they started buying up anime and releasing them by the truck load and not in the limited way before my cutoff.

You have not talked to some of the hard core anime nuts, who hated what toonami did to their hobby. It used to be a special club that very few people can join, having to track down some of these titles because no one in your city carried them. Now their members only profession is sullied by the availability.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I was born in 1990, so I'm lacking a bit of perspective on 60's, 70's, and 80's releases (all of which did happen in the US, albeit to a limited extent), but from where I'm standing, Toonami popularized /televised/ anime, and also made it into a mainstream thing with a certain demographic. There was a definite home video market for the stuff throughout the early 90's, with titles like Ninja Scroll, Ranma 1/2, Tenchi Muyo, Samurai X[footnote]which you might know better as Ruroni Kenshin[/footnote] Dirty Pair and Bubblegum Crisis being pretty heavily marketed. However, this was very much a niche audience at the time, like a subset of a subset of comic fans. Akira and to a lesser extent Princess Mononoke were the only ones that even came close to breaking out of the niche.

On TV, I remember Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon being the first time I was aware that I was watching something from Japan. They ran from 5 AM to 6 AM on school days, and I would get up early to watch them when I could get away with it. Before that, I watched reruns of Voltron, but I had no idea they were made in Japan. I just thought it was a cool cartoon. If you go back further you get titles like Robotech, Speed Racer and Astro Boy, but those were all in their initial runs well before I was born, and didn't really get reruns in my lifetime until well after Toonami had taken off (in fact, at least one of them aired on Adult Swim for a while.)

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Snip

Yes, I would slap a year on it for the simple reason that those that were aware of what's going on can see the difference between the quantity of what was available. Before 1998, it was mostly a few and far between thing and you had to go to that one video rental place that may carry it. Not even specialty move sellers carried it, if at all. After 1998, it was available in Wal-Mart. The point being is that you had to do more work getting your anime before my arbitrary cutoff.

What caused the Anime explosion was not this mythical foundation created by Akira, but by the popularity of Pokemon, which came out around the same time as Toonami. I will repeat this: there was ZERO interest in anime before 1998, except for the few diehards. Because companies saw the oogles and oogles of cash being made by this, they started buying up anime and releasing them by the truck load and not in the limited way before my cutoff.

You have not talked to some of the hard core anime nuts, who hated what toonami did to their hobby. It used to be a special club that very few people can join, having to track down some of these titles because no one in your city carried them. Now their members only profession is sullied by the availability.

Agreed. Something that should be added to this, anime conventions were important at the time because they were one of the few places you could find a good selection of anime. In particular, they were the only place to reliably find fansubs, which at the time were actually made in the analog realm and dubbed onto VHS tapes. The only places I remember seeing anime for sale prior to Toonami were record shops, comic book stores, and the occasional tabletop game store. After Toonami, you really could find it in Walmart, along with Best Buy, Target, K-mart, and the list goes on.

Edit: One thing, though. I'd put the year closer to 1999 or 2000, for one important reason: Cartoon Network wasn't a part of basic cable in the 90's, at least not in all markets. I didn't get to watch Toonami until 2000[footnote]Which was a good year to start. I remember being so excited for the premier of Gundam Wing.[/footnote], when my local cable system upgraded their lines, making room for more channels. I sincerely doubt my market was the only one to do this, especially since I'm in Florida, which is one of the better wired states when it comes to things like this.

 

[Agent Cross]

Snip

Yes, I would slap a year on it for the simple reason that those that were aware of what's going on can see the difference between the quantity of what was available. Before 1998, it was mostly a few and far between thing and you had to go to that one video rental place that may carry it. Not even specialty move sellers carried it, if at all. After 1998, it was available in Wal-Mart. The point being is that you had to do more work getting your anime before my arbitrary cutoff.

What caused the Anime explosion was not this mythical foundation created by Akira, but by the popularity of Pokemon, which came out around the same time as Toonami. I will repeat this: there was ZERO interest in anime before 1998, except for the few diehards. Because companies saw the oogles and oogles of cash being made by this, they started buying up anime and releasing them by the truck load and not in the limited way before my cutoff.

You have not talked to some of the hard core anime nuts, who hated what toonami did to their hobby. It used to be a special club that very few people can join, having to track down some of these titles because no one in your city carried them. Now their members only profession is sullied by the availability.

Yeah, I was one of those people 20 years ago. So by your logic are we saying that availability=popularity. *looks at your post* Cause that's what your saying.

I don't quite get your argument though. I had very little problems finding most of the anime I wanted before 1998. My local movie rental place had it as did Wal-Mart. Part of my demographic statement. And you completely disregard the birth of the internet and online shopping.

BTW. How is this members only profession sullied? Did it become to mainstream? Heh (jk with ya) I just think if you step outside the box and ask yourself what has changed between the 70's and 2012, the answer isn't Toonami. Toonami just raised a certain generation. We didn't have that when we were younger. I would take the Toonami 1998 timeline and compare it to the online streaming/download/shopping of anime today. Anime is by far more readily available because of these things more so.

If your going for saturation, I can see that. But Toonami was just a step on the ladder. I'll still say the internet has had a far greater impact on anime... Popularity wise. That's my experience and opinion though. Let's not make this one of those, your opinion is different than mine, therefore inherently wrong arguments though.

 

[Erana]

Gleeeeeee.
Oh god all the cute. Except for when characters died. That's not as cute. Admittedly, I never saw the original english dubs of any of Tezuka's work, but from what I understand, it was generally toned down.

But yeah, it might just be worth it to jam Kimba and Astro in together in a sequence/passage/whatever medium you're going with section about Tezuka?

And apparently this crazy dog anime [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginga:_Nagareboshi_Gin] was really popular in Northern European countries in the 80's or something.
I could never call it a "good," anime, but its downright (and unintentionally) hilarious. Chip and Ironicus did an amusing commentary/mst3K-type-thing [http://chipandironicus.com/games/nmh2/3.html] of it. Not really sure if it would be worth talking about, unless you were trying to be a little more global with your article's reach.

 

[malestrithe]

If your going for saturation, I can see that. But Toonami was just a step on the ladder. I'll still say the internet has had a far greater impact on anime... Popularity wise. That's my experience and opinion though. Let's not make this one of those, your opinion is different than mine, therefore inherently wrong arguments though.

Never said it was about popularity. The purpose of my column is to correct a false perception that MOST anime lovers have. And I do mean most Anime lovers. To a lot of them, at least the ones I bothered to ask, the Anime movement began in North America in 1998. It is not my fault that people have this perception, but they do. The first poster took offense to my statement and wanted to correct me for simply saying it. You took offense to my defense and argued something that I was not even think of when I first posted. I'm sorry that I got carried away.

Regardless of how you feel and regardless of any corrections you might want to heap upon me, my column is talking directly to people that feel the following about Anime:

1. It began in 1998 with Toonami and Pokemon.
2. Nothing before that time is worth remembering.
3. That pre Toonami stuff was better than what came after.

I get the giant sticking point is me using Toonami and 1998 as the cutoff, but that is for my benefit. It allows me a chance to specialize and focus on the pre 1998 Anime. It will make my writing better and it will give me more time to research what I'm writing about. Also, more people know Toonami and have a perception of it. This whole debate we had proves how divisive a force it is. (and that's the angle I'm taking regardless of Internet. Sorry, but the Internet's influence is beyond the scope of my column.)

That is my intent with the column: To highlight pre 1998 anime. If you don't like that, feel free to write your own. I will gladly read it.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

for me it was

Voltron
DBZ
Sailor Moon
Tekkaman Blade (Technoman)
Vampire Hunter D
Akira (i hated it though)
Speed Racer (also not one i liked, but i've seen it)
and
of course
The Samurai Pizza Cats
edit: forgot about Digimon for some stupid reason

Damn ya ninja'd me

 

[game-lover]

I remember Mega-Man being one of the first ones I saw. I'm not sure how many anime series it had but the first one I saw was the one that started the meme of Gutsman's ass.


Monster Rancher and Monkey Magic are others I saw and loved.




Nothing else comes to mind off the top of my head that hasn't been mentioned already. And I could be wrong about them but I'm almost certain they were before Toonami. Or at least before I started watching it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I just remembered something else about anime in the early 90's. The common term for it in the West hadn't yet crystallized to "Anime." There was a brief period where the terms "Japanimation" and "Japanime" were floating around, and I wouldn't be surprised if "Japanese Animation" and "Japanese Cartoons" were also in use. I heard the term "Japanimation" a good year or two before I heard "anime," although I'll note that I wasn't one of the people who were going to pre-Toonami conventions. For all I know the ones who were already deep in the subculture were using the term all along.

 

[malestrithe]

But yeah, it might just be worth it to jam Kimba and Astro in together in a sequence/passage/whatever medium you're going with section about Tezuka?

And apparently this crazy dog anime [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginga:_Nagareboshi_Gin] was really popular in Northern European countries in the 80's or something.
I could never call it a "good," anime, but its downright (and unintentionally) hilarious. Chip and Ironicus did an amusing commentary/mst3K-type-thing [http://chipandironicus.com/games/nmh2/3.html] of it. Not really sure if it would be worth talking about, unless you were trying to be a little more global with your article's reach.

Kimba, the White Lion is important enough to get its own feature. So is Astroboy. Osamu Tezuka might get a piece devoted to himself: Something like a Pre Miyazaki Miyazaki.

Don't worry about good. As long as it was in the West before 1998, it will be fine. I am looking for a smattering of stuff, good, bad, or meh. One of the things I want to correct, and I can show you the forums that prove this point, that Anime was somehow better before 1998 it became popular. No, it simply that time allowed you to remember the good stuff and forget the mediocre.

 

[The Funslinger]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

 

[Hazy992]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

DRAGON BAWWL ZEEEEEE!

Also, fail Canadian opening is fail

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

One of the things I want to correct, and I can show you the forums that prove this point, that Anime was somehow better before 1998 it became popular. No, it simply that time allowed you to remember the good stuff and forget the mediocre.

It was more than that. Pre-Toonami, there wasn't that big of a market for anime, so the stuff that did get brought over tended to the best on offer. It was kind of a case of "well, this is good enough that people will want to watch it regardless of where it came from." After Toonami, there was a larger demand, and distributors wound up being less choosy about what they brought over because the demand was huge, much bigger than the supply of the absolute best of the best.

 

[The Funslinger]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

DRAGON BAWWL ZEEEEEE!

Also, fail Canadian opening is fail

Oh God, I think that was the version they ran a few times when I was a kid...

 

[Kachal]

Just a quick list of anime VHS that you could buy in the UK back in '93, thanks to an old Sega Pro mag.

3x3 Eyes
Akira
Crying Freeman
Dominion Tank Police
Doomed Megalopolis
Fist of the North Star
Heroic Legend of Arislan
Judge
Lensman
Odin
Project A-KO
R.G. Veda
Urotsikidoji
Vampire Hunter D
Venus Wars
Wicked City

Ghost in the Shell is '95 i belive (wiki says '95 for the UK and '96 for the US)

 

[Hazy992]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

DRAGON BAWWL ZEEEEEE!

Also, fail Canadian opening is fail

Oh God, I think that was the version they ran a few times when I was a kid...

Yeah I remember seeing it on TV too. Fucking Ocean Dub...

 

[The Funslinger]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

DRAGON BAWWL ZEEEEEE!

Also, fail Canadian opening is fail

Oh God, I think that was the version they ran a few times when I was a kid...

Yeah I remember seeing it on TV too. Fucking Ocean Dub...

The one thing about the Ocean Dub was in the original Dragon Ball series, their child Krillin was far less annoying sounding than Funimation child Krillin.

I swear to Ka, I wanted to lamp him.

 

[malestrithe]

One of the things I want to correct, and I can show you the forums that prove this point, that Anime was somehow better before 1998 it became popular. No, it simply that time allowed you to remember the good stuff and forget the mediocre.

It was more than that. Pre-Toonami, there wasn't that big of a market for anime, so the stuff that did get brought over tended to the best on offer. It was kind of a case of "well, this is good enough that people will want to watch it regardless of where it came from." After Toonami, there was a larger demand, and distributors wound up being less choosy about what they brought over because the demand was huge, much bigger than the supply of the absolute best of the best.

Probably, but a lot of it was mostly failed OVAs and limited run series there were cheap to buy the rights to. I would not call Ultimate Teacher, Garzey's Wing, Violence Jack, or Diatron 5 great examples of the art. I would call them interesting, fun to watch, but not great.

Some were just mediocre. Peacock King was confusing, so was M.D. Geist. Devilman was not good. Mad Bull 34 gives me a headache every time I remember it exists.

 

[Hazy992]

Isn't Akira supposed to be one of the films that popularised anime in the West?

Also Dragon Ball Z first aired in the US in 1996, but got picked up by Toonami in 1998.

EDIT: Sailor Moon too.

I was going to say Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, too.

I'll just leave this here for appropriateness:


AWWWWWW, YEEEEEAAAAH!!!

DRAGON BAWWL ZEEEEEE!

Also, fail Canadian opening is fail

Oh God, I think that was the version they ran a few times when I was a kid...

Yeah I remember seeing it on TV too. Fucking Ocean Dub...

The one thing about the Ocean Dub was in the original Dragon Ball series, their child Krillin was far less annoying sounding than Funimation child Krillin.

I swear to Ka, I wanted to lamp him.

I haven't heard the Ocean child Krillin so I couldn't say. I'll take your word for it. In Z, other than Vegeta and Piccolo they're all awful.