Prediction: Bioshock Infinite will be controversial for the game's internal politics.

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Not G. Ivingname

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I debated with myself if this should go into the gaming or R&P section, but decided on this one since this about how Bioshock Infinite may make a few enemies for it's political view, not the politics themselves.

Video game controversy has always come from one of only a handful of things. The game has either been to violent (GTA), to sexual (Mass Effect), the game is racist (RE5) there is one minor detail in the text that is all but meaningless (Medal of Honor), something specific about the game code that puts a specific party in a frizzy (DRM/Pre-order bonuses that give actual bonuses), or rarely somebody involved in development (Shadow Complex). What a game hasn't been controversial over is the games internal politics.

Up to this point, video games haven't dealt in political matters in a way that has rubbed anybody the wrong way, even the ones that appear to be about nothing but complex politics. Metal Gear manages to please both conservatives and liberals by having an old military hard-case star in an anti-war game. Army of Two, a game about two private military contracts avoids the issues by taking nothing about it self remotely seriously. 4X (Civilization and the like) when the introduce possible political forms into your nation they are equal and only show the more practical effects on your empire.

The only games that have made a big political statement has been Bioshock 1 and 2. However, Bioshock 1 was a counter-argument against Objectivism, the political theory that is libertarism taken to it's largest extreme, has very few practitioners now-a-day's. Bioshock 2's sparse and confusing story made it unclear to most people it was a counter-argument against Communism, not helped that Bioshock 2's communistic cult would make Marx eat his own beard at the idea.


Every single criticism aimed at the Tea Party, true or not, is demostrated in that image. It also is taking a stab at radical liberal thought as well, if the newest bit of Bioshock Infinite's gameplay is to be believed. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/trailers/3558-Bioshock-Infinite-Factions-at-War

I think this may be a big step for gaming as an accepted medium. Every other medium has dealt with political issues and has never been angry when they made some political enemies. If a game is hated for the point of the game's story and writing, that is the ultimate indecator that we have been taken seriously.

Do you guys agree or am I out of my mind.
 

New Frontiersman

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This is interesting, I hope they are able to do this well, I think this could be very interesting if done well.

And I do agree, I do think that this could help gaming to be accepted in the mainstream.
 

ultrachicken

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If the media were to actually pay enough attention to a game to notice the themes and political views as opposed to simple violence and sex, I would be pleased.
 

Ian Caronia

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That was a lot to soak in, but I think I understand what you're getting at. Personally I believe that tackling politics in gaming can and should be looked at in a mature and somewhat introspective light, and considering that we already immerse ourselves in the game as is, finding said introspection will not only be easier, but will nurture a greater cultural and political understanding than what we already have.
_I think that, if handled correctly and in a way that doesn't overpower the plot or ruin the game's credibility, a game that dives a bit deeper into political perspectives than simply brushing up against them can be a magnificent learning tool for everyone capable of understanding it. I've seen this exact practice done with religion in the hard-to-find PS2 classic Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, wherein both broad political and primarily religious ideologies are presented to the player throughout the game. At the end the player chooses which ideology to side with, or if they want to side with any at all! It helped me understand a bit more about politics and a LOT about religion on a whole, and it helped me come to conclusions that I carry with me to this day.
_So yes, I think gaming should dive into such complex subject matter despite the flack it will get if the game is popular enough (Nocturne received little flack because it was an under-the-radar dungeon crawling JRPG, otherwise everyone would know about it by now).


Not G. Ivingname said:
However, I also think that image is the most grotesque attempt at being irreverent I've seen since Duke Nukem Forever, though at least DNF was just being silly to be silly (and stuck to poking at other franchises, so you could laugh if you wanted and not lose your IQ).
_This? This can't be in Bioshock Infinite. It's...
Stupid. Incredibly stupid. Insultingly stupid. This is either a very lame joke that not even Rockstar would put into a GTA game, or it's a sad realization of how the developers will handle the subject matter you're talking about.

Wow. Just...wow. No subtlety at all. Put it this way: That image is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of how I think games should handle complex subject matter. One sided and absolutely lazy. Don't seem to recall the original being so...so...

Where's that overused "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!" song to go with that pic?

EDIT: Nevermind. I'm thoroughly disappointed in this game now >_>
 

octafish

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Well since the protagonist is an evil vicious violent pawn for even more evil robber barons the right finally have a game character they can identify with. I mean really a Pinkerton? I'm boycotting any game that may in any way make a hero of a Pinkerton.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Ian Caronia said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
However, I also think that image is the most grotesque attempt at being irreverent I've seen since Duke Nukem Forever, though at least DNF was just being silly to be silly (and stuck to poking at other franchises, so you could laugh if you wanted and not lose your IQ).
_This? This can't be in Bioshock Infinite. It's...
Stupid. Incredibly stupid. Insultingly stupid. This is either a very lame joke that not even Rockstar would put into a GTA game, or it's a sad realization of how the developers will handle the subject matter you're talking about.

Wow. Just...wow. No subtlety at all. Put it this way: That image is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of how I think games should handle complex subject matter. One sided and absolutely lazy. Don't seem to recall the original being so...so...

Where's that overused "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!" song to go with that pic?
Sadly it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0fDEA0BFSM

While as a Consitiutionalist myself, I would of asked for at least some stubblity in this matter, but baby steps is the only way we can walk :/
 

Ian Caronia

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octafish said:
Well since the protagonist is an evil vicious violent pawn for even more evil robber barons the right finally have a game character they can identify with. I mean really a Pinkerton? I'm boycotting any game that may in any way make a hero of a Pinkerton.
...Wait, I'm lost now. I think I jumped into something and I'm in far over my head.

Who's a Pinkerton? What this about the protag? I didn't see anything bad about him in the trailer...
 

ChupathingyX

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Good.

We need more games to portray political and social issues in their narrative.

Bioshock did it, Fallout: New Vegas did it, Mercenaries 1 and 2 even did it.

I can't wait for this game to come out and see how all the political stuff is handled.
 

Steve the Pocket

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Nah. From the looks of things, Columbia isn't spoofing any modern school of thought, but the actual attitude a hell of a lot of Americans had during the period the game is set in. In fact, I'm not sure where you're getting the connection to the modern-day Tea Party movement... unless you're saying the Tea Party is made up of jingoistic nationalists? In which case, I don't think 2K are the ones hating on the Tea Party here.
 

Ian Caronia

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Not G. Ivingname said:
Ian Caronia said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
However, I also think that image is the most grotesque attempt at being irreverent I've seen since Duke Nukem Forever, though at least DNF was just being silly to be silly (and stuck to poking at other franchises, so you could laugh if you wanted and not lose your IQ).
_This? This can't be in Bioshock Infinite. It's...
Stupid. Incredibly stupid. Insultingly stupid. This is either a very lame joke that not even Rockstar would put into a GTA game, or it's a sad realization of how the developers will handle the subject matter you're talking about.

Wow. Just...wow. No subtlety at all. Put it this way: That image is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of how I think games should handle complex subject matter. One sided and absolutely lazy. Don't seem to recall the original being so...so...

Where's that overused "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!" song to go with that pic?
Sadly it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0fDEA0BFSM

While as a Consitiutionalist myself, I would of asked for at least some stubblity in this matter, but baby steps is the only way we can walk :/
...Wow. I know I can't reply to this with just that but... Just wow.

Well, I'm glad I mentioned a title like Nocturne in the same air as this. Fuck's sake, man...
_Well thanks for this anyway, Ivingname. You're far more right about this being controversial now than I originally thought (sorry), but it seems so for all the wrong reasons. Ugh...

Keep hoping though since you're on the right track! At least we know games can be poignant! ...When the idea of being "poignant" isn't executed like this. Hope those who want to play the game at least find it fun to play.
 

octafish

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Ian Caronia said:
octafish said:
Well since the protagonist is an evil vicious violent pawn for even more evil robber barons the right finally have a game character they can identify with. I mean really a Pinkerton? I'm boycotting any game that may in any way make a hero of a Pinkerton.
...Wait, I'm lost now. I think I jumped into something and I'm in far over my head.

Who's a Pinkerton? What this about the protag? I didn't see anything bad about him in the trailer...
2K state that the protagonist is a Pinkerton. The Pinkertons are the enemy of the working man. A Pinkerton is a union buster, a murderer, a souless scab in the employ of the bosses.
 

Waffle_Man

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Not G. Ivingname said:
Bioshock 1 was a counter-argument against Objectivism
True in part, but the game was hardly critical of just Objectivism. I had figured that it was more concerned with the concept of people being unable to live up to their ideals.
 

LetalisK

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Ian Caronia said:
Wow. Just...wow. No subtlety at all. Put it this way: That image is EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of how I think games should handle complex subject matter. One sided and absolutely lazy. Don't seem to recall the original being so...so...

Where's that overused "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!" song to go with that pic?

EDIT: Nevermind. I'm thoroughly disappointed in this game now >_>
How exactly did you expect it to be handled? In Bioshock 1 and 2 they took the extreme version of an ideology and added violence into the mix. Why do you think they'd do anything different this time?
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Steve the Pocket said:
Nah. From the looks of things, Columbia isn't spoofing any modern school of thought, but the actual attitude a hell of a lot of Americans had during the period the game is set in. In fact, I'm not sure where you're getting the connection to the modern-day Tea Party movement... unless you're saying the Tea Party is made up of jingoistic nationalists? In which case, I don't think 2K are the ones hating on the Tea Party here.
Well, critisim of being jingoistic nationalists is the most common one for the Tea Party. Am I saying that is true? No, that is just what people say when they reinact the Boston Tea Party.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Waffle_Man said:
Not G. Ivingname said:
Bioshock 1 was a counter-argument against Objectivism
True in part, but the game was hardly critical of just Objectivism. I had figured that it was more concerned with the concept of people being unable to live up to their ideals.
I am not saying it was the only concept explored in the game, it is better for it. Another one explored I noticed was the matter of choice, and a person's (or for that matter, the player's) lack of it. However, Objectivism is the only POLITCAL matter explored.
 

gaiaquasar

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Ian Caronia said:
octafish said:
Well since the protagonist is an evil vicious violent pawn for even more evil robber barons the right finally have a game character they can identify with. I mean really a Pinkerton? I'm boycotting any game that may in any way make a hero of a Pinkerton.
...Wait, I'm lost now. I think I jumped into something and I'm in far over my head.

Who's a Pinkerton? What this about the protag? I didn't see anything bad about him in the trailer...
The protagonist is apparently a -former(/disgraced)- Pinkerton agent (precursor to the FBI, fascinating bunch, really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_National_Detective_Agency) so I'm not sure boycotting it on anti-Pinkerton principle is valid yet...

That being said, I want to touch on the way that games interact with society. If you've seen this week's Extra Credits, you'll get where I'm coming from when I say that the statement a game makes is incomplete until the player forms his own opinions. And that ever user's experience differs, leading to different statements. True, the developers have a large part in the story progression. But even so, I know for a fact that (the first) Bioshock is a completely different experience for different people, even among close friends.

As my proof, I offer an anecdote wherein a friend of mine believed Bioshock's protagonist to be under Tenenbaum's mind control after the death of Ryan. I told her my opinion; that Jack had been rid of the mind control and was free to fight Fontaine of his own volition. She merely laughed at me and called me naive. Her take was that you had been brought back to shift the balance of power and, in the end, the game's narrative gave you no other choice so there had to have been a shifting of control, not a release of it.

But that's neither here nor there. My final conjecture is that Fox will largely ignore B:I as their viewers are (for the most part) non-gamers. Other media outlets may or may not touch on the politics of it, but as it will (probably) lack sex or gore, it is more likely that it is viewed as a non-story. I do however think that our current generation will be viewed as the pioneers of a coming shift in public thought on games as a medium, and the Bioshock series (as well as the System Shock series before it, not to mention Mass Effect, Portal or Fallout) will be seen as a major influence on the global discussion.