Preview: What's New in Dragon Age II

[veloper]

And I haven't even started on the dumbass gameplay.....

Marry me.
Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and ME2 were boring piles of shiny crap with "storylines" the length of the asteroid belt. It felt like a chore to slog through the endless linear corridors.

We're a dying breed... they're killing our games and we can't do a damned thing about it except for ***** on boards and piss off the insecure.

There's still many players who want deep gameplay, but we're getting pushed out of the WRPG scene and have to find our new pet in games like HoMM, King's Bounty, maybe the occasional decent SRPG on finding it's way to the west on a handheld, or even pure strategy games.

I never saw the much reason to get upset about the stories in RPGs though, seeing as they're nearly all bad and gameplay is what it's all about. Do you keep getting disappointed again and again for 11 years since Planescape, or have you lowered your standards?
Ofcourse there's degrees of bad ranging from a weak plot propped up by nice dialogues (Bloodlines) to alround mediocrity (Dragon Age) to a mere premise + godawful monologues (Oblivion) or the incomprehensibly shitty (Final Fantasy).

We should talk more about the dumbass gameplay.
We can also buy the few decent games in our alley. Let the industry know were still in the market for deep gameplay and that this may be a better niche than everyone competing with the same shit over the lowest common denominator.

 

[Fumbleumble]

And I haven't even started on the dumbass gameplay.....

Marry me.
Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and ME2 were boring piles of shiny crap with "storylines" the length of the asteroid belt. It felt like a chore to slog through the endless linear corridors.

We're a dying breed... they're killing our games and we can't do a damned thing about it except for ***** on boards and piss off the insecure.

There's still many players who want deep gameplay, but we're getting pushed out of the WRPG scene and have to find our new pet in games like HoMM, King's Bounty, maybe the occasional decent SRPG on finding it's way to the west on a handheld, or even pure strategy games.

I never saw the much reason to get upset about the stories in RPGs though, seeing as they're nearly all bad and gameplay is what it's all about. Do you keep getting disappointed again and again for 11 years since Planescape, or have you lowered your standards?
Ofcourse there's degrees of bad ranging from a weak plot propped up by nice dialogues (Bloodlines) to alround mediocrity (Dragon Age) to a mere premise + godawful monologues (Oblivion) or the incomprehensibly shitty (Final Fantasy).

We should talk more about the dumbass gameplay.
We can also buy the few decent games in our alley. Let the industry know were still in the market for deep gameplay and that this may be a better niche than everyone competing with the same shit over the lowest common denominator.

heh. I can't do more that I do, I've been known to drop a mail to comapanies stating my points and I talk at length as loudly as I can get away with at any opportunity.. maybe one day :/

Will I ever lower my standards?.. NEVER, I would rather rail ineffectively for the rest of my days than capitulate or compromise my standards of excellence.

As for being on the look out for older/ different games that meet my standards, I always do... I'm urrently working though GOG's catalogue, they have some good ones.

 

[Fumbleumble]

Praise be to the holy snip, hallowed be his glorious name

To be honest mate... I have to agree with this guy.

You seem very much to just be seeking attention, by being a contrarian.

There was another kind of person who watched Inception: The guy who saw it and loved it for being a great action movie that actually made you think to understand its plot. What movies do you like, exactly? From here it honestly sounds like the one and only form of entertainment you enjoy whatsoever is the old-school RPG you weep for the death of at the hands of us inferior sheep.

I don't know if you were trying to insult the majority of people in this thread, and indeed these boards, but you succeeded. You say that things with depth are less likely to appeal to the masses, so I ask you: define depth, with examples.

What you are is not some sort of infinitely wise god-being who is alone in understanding the greatness of old-school RPGs. You are not better than anyone else, as you seem to be implying. You're part of a cult - not as in the "religious cult" sense, but rather as in the "Red Dwarf has a cult fanbase" sense. And all the people not in your cult are not idiotic sheep, they're just people who hold a different opinion to you - a more common opinion.

You are demeaning the majority of people in the world, implying that you are more intelligent than them because you can "understand the greatness" of your favourite game genre. That's shallow; other people are not misguided for having a differing opinion to you.

I think you messed up your quotes

You say you agree, quote me for something I didn't say, then disagree with me. :/

It's not my intention to insult anyone, but if the cap fits.

Is it a FACT, that stuff that interests me isn't 'mainstream'.. YES, is it a fact, that GENERALLY the stuff the mainstream likes doesn't appeal to me .. yes.. you can't agrue with that.

Then you say about 'cult' trying to twist what I say to make it fit with your agenda of telling me what I really mean.. when you don't seem to understand at all. :/

..and here's a shocker.. if the masses intelligence WERE actually as valid as powerful as a few who are at the top of the pile, and I'm not going to say who that few does actually includes..... then the world wouldn't be the pigshit mess that it is. The problems would have been spotted long ago, as certain people have done and have tried to make a difference, and people would have stood up to do something, fully secure in their understanding of the problems.

But they don't.. they bury their heads, claim not be be responsible and generally get on with their disconnected lives, hoping that someone else will take them by the hand and sort out their ever increasing mess for them..... Does that sound very intelligent to you?

As for a truly deep movie, one with complexity that has a point, where it's complexity IS the plot, instead of being a device used to confuse and fudge the issue? one that has something to say and does so uncompromisingly?... Primer, go watch it.. then rush back and tell me how crap you thought it was. :/

EDIT.. Actually, can we get over this particular rut we've fallen into and go back to the topic at hand... I don't particularly want this thread closed and it will be if people continue to say nmothing except defend their hurt feelings, and by getting all bent out of shape about it kinda just makes it sound as if my comments are valid to you and you don't like it. :/

If all that I'm saying really just are deluded rambling, which it is your absolute right to have that opinion, then prove you hold the high gound by laughing it off and ignoring my irrelevence.

If it can be kept on track, the thread still has a few things to say.

 

[sosolidshoe]

Sounds to me like they're removing most of the things I enjoyed about Dragon Age :/

Developers these days seem absolutely determined to eradicate any shred of user investment or imagination in RPGs; I LIKE silent protagonists with a large variety of text-based responses, first because they let ME decide what my character sounds like, and second because all-voiced systems clearly suffer in the amount of dialogue available. I LIKE "old" game mechanics like managing inventory items, planning skill choices and stats well in advance to get the late-game character I want, and I LIKE slower more thoughtful combat.

Dragon Age was supposed to be for US. For oldschool PC RPG players, and yet-a-fucking-gain it's being dumbed down for consoles. And don't try and bullshit otherwise, the entire interview was littered with "now it will be better on Xbox". I'm a little sad that Bioware is turning into yet another money-whore, dumbed-down, console-slave developer.

 

[cthulhumythos]

Sure is EA/Sony defence force in The Escapists staff. I know it's hard to try and swallow, but it's true, EA has been Sonys loyal little dog this last time. Who do you think it was that convinced Valve to release Portal 2 on PS3? EA. Who do you think it was that convinced DICE to develop Bad Company 2 with the PS3 as its main platform? EA. Who do you think it was that convinced Bioware to release Mass Effect 2 on the PS3? EA. The facts are obvious, yeah, I used "naughty words" to describe it, but it's true none the less.

you're... really making it sound worse than what you're saying. so EA is putting more games on ps3; whats the problem?

 

[repeating integers]

Praise be to the holy snip, hallowed be his glorious name

To be honest mate... I have to agree with this guy.

You seem very much to just be seeking attention, by being a contrarian.

There was another kind of person who watched Inception: The guy who saw it and loved it for being a great action movie that actually made you think to understand its plot. What movies do you like, exactly? From here it honestly sounds like the one and only form of entertainment you enjoy whatsoever is the old-school RPG you weep for the death of at the hands of us inferior sheep.

I don't know if you were trying to insult the majority of people in this thread, and indeed these boards, but you succeeded. You say that things with depth are less likely to appeal to the masses, so I ask you: define depth, with examples.

What you are is not some sort of infinitely wise god-being who is alone in understanding the greatness of old-school RPGs. You are not better than anyone else, as you seem to be implying. You're part of a cult - not as in the "religious cult" sense, but rather as in the "Red Dwarf has a cult fanbase" sense. And all the people not in your cult are not idiotic sheep, they're just people who hold a different opinion to you - a more common opinion.

You are demeaning the majority of people in the world, implying that you are more intelligent than them because you can "understand the greatness" of your favourite game genre. That's shallow; other people are not misguided for having a differing opinion to you.

I think you messed up your quotes

You say you agree, quote me for something I didn't say, then disagree with me. :/

It's not my intention to insult anyone, but if the cap fits.

Is it a FACT, that stuff that interests me isn't 'mainstream'.. YES, is it a fact, that GENERALLY the stuff the mainstream likes doesn't appeal to me .. yes.. you can't agrue with that.

Then you say about 'cult' trying to twist what I say to make it fit with your agenda of telling me what I really mean.. when you don't seem to understand at all. :/

..and here's a shocker.. if the masses intelligence WERE actually as valid as powerful as a few who are at the top of the pile, and I'm not going to say who that few does actually includes..... then the world wouldn't be the pigshit mess that it is. The problems would have been spotted long ago, as certain people have done and have tried to make a difference, and people would have stood up to do something, fully secure in their understanding of the problems.

But they don't.. they bury their heads, claim not be be responsible and generally get on with their disconnected lives, hoping that someone else will take them by the hand and sort out their ever increasing mess for them..... Does that sound very intelligent to you?

As for a truly deep movie, one with complexity that has a point, where it's complexity IS the plot, instead of being a device used to confuse and fudge the issue? one that has something to say and does so uncompromisingly?... Primer, go watch it.. then rush back and tell me how crap you thought it was. :/

EDIT.. Actually, can we get over this particular rut we've fallen into and go back to the topic at hand... I don't particularly want this thread closed and it will be if people continue to say nmothing except defend their hurt feelings, and by getting all bent out of shape about it kinda just makes it sound as if my comments are valid to you and you don't like it. :/

If all that I'm saying really just are deluded rambling, which it is your absolute right to have that opinion, then prove you hold the high gound by laughing it off and ignoring my irrelevence.

If it can be kept on track, the thread still has a few things to say.

I think you have a point with that edit. I could construct a massive argument and piss us both off, but this thread does have a topic and we're kinda straying off it (though to be fair, it was pretty much your fault at the beginning...).

And also, I didn't exactly mess up my quotes, I just was a bit silly and decided I'd pick the wrong post to quote. So yeah, I messed up my quotes, but not in the "press the wrong button" sense.

 

[Shycte]

"Was the default setting, especially on PC, too hard? Yeah," admits Laidlaw. "'Normal' felt more like 'Hard' to me."

This was a FUCKING GOOD THING! Piss easy mode off entirely, I want my RPG's ball breakingly hard. I don't want to discuss them with people who breezed through in 15hrs...... because they are idiots (*cough* console players).

Elitist much? Seriously, get over yourself.

OT: Looks really good. I've always prefered Dragon Age to Mass Effect, so I'm quite pumped up for this one.

 

[Vault101]

Don't care..

Everyone trots out the same tired old BS about Bioware's 'excellent' writing....

Well I say you're all just sheep bleating away and that you wouldn't know HONESTLY good writing if it bit you on the arse.

Bioware's spewings are the same crap reguritated again and again, there isn't an 'original' story in the entire house.

GOOD writing is tight, cohesive and logical, with twists here and there.... Bioware has none of that any longer and haven't had since Jade Empire and that was truly the end of it and it's been sketchy at best since BGII.

Good ISN'T pages and pages of turgidly dry backstory that hopes to beat you down with the sheer amount of irrelevence, and Bioware is now all of that... DA is just the same story they've been telling since BG1... the stage is the same, they just messed around with some of the players backstory. Is no-one surprised they're not sick and tired trotting out the same old wretched fantasy offering, because I'm CERTAINLY sick of the same crap over and over again.. Big evil rears it's head, only one man can stop it and on the way he makes some friends.. Is Bioware really unable to think of another senario? REALLY?.. and DA2 looks more of the same, but this time you don't even get make your own character .

And the less said about the mish mash of broken ends, contradictions and plot holes that CONTINUES to be ME, the better. The first sets a good stage, they fire the writer.. the second goes off at a tangent, taking your char down paths that weren't even cosistant with the char of the first and NOW for the third they can't even stick to the rules for the big bad that they set in the first, good grief it was only a few years agao.. didn't they READ what they were writing?... WAAAA FANBOY ALERT... don't say that, you suck.. lies, WAAAA. I DEFY any of you to find ANY part of their recent storylines that can actually be called original.. or at least not rehashed from the same old same old stories that are constantly and persistantly told again, and again, and again.

If ANY of you are actually interested in good writing and originality, go play Arcanum.. or better yet Planescape: Torment, Bioware couldn't hold a candle to those games in terms of writing, not even in their hayday.

Biowares constant repetition is almost as bad as your constant procamations of their 'leetness'... I suppose it just gives you someything to say, and makes you feel as if you're all a part of something.

And I haven't even started on the dumbass gameplay.....

Baaaaaaa I like being a sheep

 

[Yossarian1507]

Actually, combat in Dragon Age was too easy for me. Just spam this cone-freezing spell and kinetic prison. Worked on everything, even Archdemon, whenever he wasn't out of reach. But maybe that was just me playing mage, since I heard he's more powerful than the rest of the classes.

DA:O was a huge disappointment for me, especially in plot department. Generic fantasy story I read or played thousand of times, and 95% of the plot twists were extremely predictable (Alistair is king's bastard? Gee, who didn't see that coming?). The rest was quite... Decent for me, when I expected super-duper, because it's BioWare. 7/10 if I would have to rate this game. Definitely too weak to receive all the hype it got.

Now, from what I read here, it looks like I MIGHT give DA another chance, because all of the changes looks like a hit instead of a miss, especially that 'friend/rival' thingy, as long as it will have some bigger plot consequences than 'You did good/rah you moron' + the exact same consequence. That being said, before blindly buying it, I'll ask my friend for an opinion about the plot, when he'll buy it on a release day. I really would like to avoid wasting money on another RPG with a boring story again...

 

[OniaPL]

I'm just so very worried. Dragon Age II can have the potential in my opinion to become a great game, but I'm worried.

What I am worried about is Bioware's success with Mass Effect, and I think that will affect the game in some way. I am afraid Dragon Age will turn in to a "action blockbuster" type of game Mass Effect is. I do like Mass Effect games, but we don't need a fantasy Mass effect. But there might be signs of Dragon Effect: Mass Age already: Dialogue will be ME's dialogue wheel and the fact that combat can be played as a action game without pausing. These are not necessarily bad things, but it could be easy for them to just take pointers from ME, which is vastly successful.

Edit: Sorry for slight repetition, but i'm tired.

 

[Petromir]

Bioware right good cblockbsuter style main plots, they are negaging, anhd make sense, but are not brilliant works in their own right. They get abitover appocalytic, and betryal /twist happy. They are quite good at hiding their twists, its just a pity they come with such predictible reguality that you know ones coming, and therefore the signs that would be subtle become clear.

They do other charecters well, usually getting the amount of depth something requires for your level of involvement right. People actually behave like people, not actors. They do make you dig for info on them though, certainly your companions, if you dont dig you will find them shallow as hell.

Their worlds are more beleiviable than most, they've thought about them more early on.

Its almost as if they've got Tolkien to do the worlds and charecters, and then passed it onto dan brown to right the plot. (Note the worlds arent that good, but I was exagerting the point to make clear the difference) The charecters and worlds are deep, and well crafted, but the main stories of the recent games are sensationalist page turners, enjoyable but not close to the standard of the rest of the world.

In part this may be an effort to try and let you create your own stories in your head, a skill many lament as lost.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

snip

Yeah, everyone's right... you were kind of being a pompous ass for no reason with all that Inception shit...

And really, for someone who wants the thread to be on topic you're sure rambling about random off topic shit alot.

..and here's a shocker.. if the masses intelligence WERE actually as valid as powerful as a few who are at the top of the pile, and I'm not going to say who that few does actually includes..... then the world wouldn't be the pigshit mess that it is. The problems would have been spotted long ago, as certain people have done and have tried to make a difference, and people would have stood up to do something, fully secure in their understanding of the problems.

But they don't.. they bury their heads, claim not be be responsible and generally get on with their disconnected lives, hoping that someone else will take them by the hand and sort out their ever increasing mess for them..... Does that sound very intelligent to you?

Like seriously... WTF are you talking about?

...

90% of the crap you're talking about is subjective, the rest is nonsense.

 

[Sabazios]

EA seems to have been the death of Bioware. The old Bioware would never have released a sequel to a game on a console when the original couldn't be put on there.

 

[USSR]

Well yeah, some areas are set for higher level characters so you have to go back to them later.

Did people not know that?

It indeed seems like some people thought they should've been able to kill the High Dragon at level 5..

 

[Shycte]

Well yeah, some areas are set for higher level characters so you have to go back to them later.

Did people not know that?

It indeed seems like some people thought they should've been able to kill the High Dragon at level 5..

Yeah, this isn't Oblivion we're talking about.

I've always wondered why those Mercenaries outside of Orzammar where so fucking hard though...

 

[Fumbleumble]

And also, I didn't exactly mess up my quotes, I just was a bit silly and decided I'd pick the wrong post to quote. So yeah, I messed up my quotes, but not in the "press the wrong button" sense.

I've never said what you have quoted me as saying..... so yes you did fuck up, it wasn't a 'silly' mistake.. you have opened a quote for me and stuck in your own comment.. FFS at least accept that if you accept nothing else I say.

EDIT.. actually I'm just going to stop talking to you.

 

[Woodsey]

Well yeah, some areas are set for higher level characters so you have to go back to them later.

Did people not know that?

It indeed seems like some people thought they should've been able to kill the High Dragon at level 5..

I can see the issue where they lock you into an area and you simply aren't able to win on any difficulty (that nearly happened to me with the stone obelisk things at the end of the Dwarven city quest), but I haven't actually heard that happen very often to anyone.

There's a certain dragon that you may or may not face at some point in the game who's a total ***** to kill, so I went away and came back 5 level-ups later.

But anyway, I'm mildly cautious about the changes to DA2, but we'll see - although I hope I haven't seen the finalised version of the graphics, because they're hideous so far. All the original needed was a little less brown.