Private Schools

[isjusterin]

Speaking from a public school perspective, every year there is a huge problem with what to do with the students who are not engaged or just not interested in letting anyone else learn anything. Here schooling is now compulsory until you're 17 unless you have meaningful work (ie something career-based) or are involved in courses at a technical college (usually trade-based training) or an apprenticeship program. It is also expected that you attend school until you are at least 15 before taking one of these options. As you can imagine this leaves us essentially baby sitting a number of disengaged kids until they're 15 or more (some parents have incredibly unrealistic expectations of their children and will persist in keeping them at school for the Tertiary Entrance Exams despite all evidence that they're not suited for it).

That's an interesting program. There's vocational schools and such in the U.S., but that's definitely not the normal route. As far as I know, school is compulsory in the U.S. until you're 18 or until you finish high school (i.e. me, skipped a grade, graduated at 17). It's not common in my area since it's a commercial/industrial/business area, but I'm sure in the rural parts of the country there's definitely a lot of lame ducks sitting in classrooms expecting to just take over their parents' work. I rather like the compulsory nature of education in the U.S., though, because that way you're not getting parents trying to drag their kids out of school to work and students dropping out of school as complete idiots.

 

[Mstrswrd]

From what I have read, I guess I'm lucky to have been in a Public school that is actually known for nothing else but it's consistently high grades. Seriously. We don't thave a choice (my school didn't win a football game for 31 years, I believe... or was it 37?). I don't know why, but even the most drugged out kids would study. I knew one kid, Stu, who was openly a pothead. He was a freakin genius. He was able to, when High, still get 80's (B-) and higher, even when stoned off his ass. And don't get me started in math. He was just amazing at it. All of the jocks at my school, would actually occasionaly miss practices to go to extra-help if they needed it, though only if forced (they'd still pass, so... you know). I myself found that the level of education in my school was only slightly below that of a private school, mostly because most of the people working at my school had a bit of a private school mentality. Expecially the Dean of Students. It was get good grades, or your going to be; A: Kicked out of whatever sports/clubs you're in; B: Forced to go to extra-help disguised as a detention (I told you, they were serious about education); and C: If you still won't go (to extra-help), then you'd get in school suspension, in which you are forced to do nothing but study and work all day.

 

[BlazeTheVampire]

Speaking from a public school perspective, every year there is a huge problem with what to do with the students who are not engaged or just not interested in letting anyone else learn anything. Here schooling is now compulsory until you're 17 unless you have meaningful work (ie something career-based) or are involved in courses at a technical college (usually trade-based training) or an apprenticeship program. It is also expected that you attend school until you are at least 15 before taking one of these options. As you can imagine this leaves us essentially baby sitting a number of disengaged kids until they're 15 or more (some parents have incredibly unrealistic expectations of their children and will persist in keeping them at school for the Tertiary Entrance Exams despite all evidence that they're not suited for it).

That's an interesting program. There's vocational schools and such in the U.S., but that's definitely not the normal route. As far as I know, school is compulsory in the U.S. until you're 18 or until you finish high school (i.e. me, skipped a grade, graduated at 17). It's not common in my area since it's a commercial/industrial/business area, but I'm sure in the rural parts of the country there's definitely a lot of lame ducks sitting in classrooms expecting to just take over their parents' work. I rather like the compulsory nature of education in the U.S., though, because that way you're not getting parents trying to drag their kids out of school to work and students dropping out of school as complete idiots.

In Ohio, at least, the legal drop-out age is 16. I think that's national but don't quote me on it. I'm 100% sure that you don't have to attend school until you're 18 in the United States- you are allowed to drop out, but usually not until around 2nd year or high school. That rule wouldn't work- I know people who didn't turn 18 until their Freshman year of college, lol.

 

[jezz8me]

In Australia there was a study that found Private school kids are more likely to get into Uni first round but also more likely to drop out in the first year or fail.

Private schools teach for exams and pure academic knowledge and nothing else. They are meant to give the school a good image amongst the rich so more will attend. Public schools tend to be more about actually teaching students and encouraging independent learning and growth that will help them in the future.

My school (public) is just about the most average school. Not terrible but not great. The best school in Melbourne however is McRobinson Girls school (public) followed by Melbourne High School (public).

I would also like to say how pointless i find single gender education. I get along with girls much better than guys so i would be probably depressed if i had to deal with guys all the time (i am a guy btw). In the future we will have to work with the opposite gender so we may as well learn now and as for "hormonal distractions" isn't it character building to get over them for what is more important?

 

[zari]

I would also like to say how pointless i find single gender education. I get along with girls much better than guys so i would be probably depressed if i had to deal with guys all the time (i am a guy btw). In the future we will have to work with the opposite gender so we may as well learn now and as for "hormonal distractions" isn't it character building to get over them for what is more important?

I couldn't say whether I'm for or against single gender classes (or entire schools). I think there are some good arguments for (there have been some interesting programs looking at boys education recently at my school which have gotten positive results) and against.

I don't think the old arguments for single sex classes are necessarily valid though (eg distraction as you stated above). There are however teaching and learning strategies that tend to show better results for girls or boys, although really I think this boils down to typical learning styles and it would be better (if not more practical) to group kids based on the way that they learn most effectively.

 

[werepossum]

I know I found girls to be extremely distracting in school but managed to pull through. Perhaps the secret was that girls generally didn't find me nearly so distracting in return? A lot of it depends on how much you put into your own education - often the back parts of the books that don't get covered have the most interesting and useful information. I also credit being in a poor rural school district without the money for the latest idiotic craze in education.

I think that private schools offer a better education, but mostly because parents who pay the extra money to put their children into private school are more likely to pay attention to the child's education. We have two public high schools in town that are #1 and #2 in the state. Both are in rich areas, where parents put more importance on a quality education AND have more time and energy to ensure this for their children AND tend to have fewer children on which to focus AND have more resources to supplement the education both within the school and outside of it. Most public schools are afflicted with parents who either don't care or who are most interested in making sure their little angels are not "disrespected" or given "negative self images" rather than whether their little angel can read, do math, or continue on to college or a skilled trade.

 

[BlazeTheVampire]

In Australia there was a study that found Private school kids are more likely to get into Uni first round but also more likely to drop out in the first year or fail.

Private schools teach for exams and pure academic knowledge and nothing else. They are meant to give the school a good image amongst the rich so more will attend. Public schools tend to be more about actually teaching students and encouraging independent learning and growth that will help them in the future.

My school (public) is just about the most average school. Not terrible but not great. The best school in Melbourne however is McRobinson Girls school (public) followed by Melbourne High School (public).

I would also like to say how pointless i find single gender education. I get along with girls much better than guys so i would be probably depressed if i had to deal with guys all the time (i am a guy btw). In the future we will have to work with the opposite gender so we may as well learn now and as for "hormonal distractions" isn't it character building to get over them for what is more important?

For American schools, switch your above definitions.

I do agree about single gender education. The single gender schools around here are all private, so I couldn't afford to go to one anyways. But when I started encountering problems of an overly dramatic nature at my high school, my mother wanted to send me to the nearby all-girl's school instead. I have mostly guy friends and tend not to get along with other women (my guy friends say it's because they're jealous, lol), so I maintained that my problems there would be much worse and stuck it out. High school was still miserable, but would've been either way, I suppose. If you ask me, nothing could be more distracting than the amount of dramatic tension caused by having 2,000 women in the same building for 7-8 hours. I think interaction between the genders is necessary to have, and the earlier one becomes used to it, the better. Otherwise you just get boys or girls who are so awkward around the opposite sex that they can't stand to be in a social situation with each other, which I think would lead to limited job opportunities, or at the very least, workers without adequate social skills. For example, we'll say that a woman who is more than capable of performing the job skills applies at a computer store. She's called in for an interview and walks in to see that her manager is male. But she's gone to an all-girl's school all her life and doesn't feel comfortable talking to a man. Her interview ends up awkward and she leaves quite frazzled. The manager takes this as the girl not having good social skills and doesn't hire her. You see? It could work either way, but I had a friend who went to an all-girl's high school and this happens to her a lot, so I know that it's a valid example of what happens when the two genders are separated for a lengthy amount of time.

 

[L.B. Jeffries]

This is going to always vary wildly from country to country.

I was shipped off to an Episcopalian school as a kid for...uh, a variety of reasons. Later went to a state university and transferred to a private school by the end of the year. The intellectual apathy was infuriating...I know a lot of people don't give a shit about art, philosophy, or literature but I enjoyed it and got stuck with people who didn't. There was plenty of that noise in the private school but it was still significantly less.

The issue with school is that a lot of people don't give a crap about liberal arts. It sure as hell isn't going to get you a job and being able to critically think for yourself is not necessarily a useful skill. Yet in America everyone, regardless of their major, is expected to have a college diploma. So you have a lot of people who take the easier majors like Art History or English without actually caring about the topic. It's an intelligent move and they can get a career underway faster once it's done. But it screws the ones who actually care over.

And yeah, a lot of the people who attend those schools are pricks. Last time I checked, there were plenty of assholes in public schools too. Dunno about the whole preparation for the real world argument...I'm doing fine and unless I'd majored in a technical skill I'd still be in the same boat.

 

[Tomh]

I am currently attending a private boarding school in the US, and I think going there was one of the best decisions I have ever made.

Now, the public school system in my local town is excellent. It has a reputation for being one of the best public school systems in the country, so had I gone to that public high school I would have still have got a great education. However since it has this reputation, the large majority of the people in the town are crazy parents who want there children to be the next genius of the world and push there kids so much it makes the entire town competitive and just unpleasant to live in, so I got the hell out of there. Even If the public school does have the a high level of education, my private school by far offers more opportunities to get help when I need it. During the day there are periods where the students can go meet with any of there teachers to get help with anything the do not understand. Also every night there is peer tutoring available. Those kind of advantages would never be offered by a public school

What I like most about my school however is the social atmosphere. I live in a dorm with all my friends, so I can they can come to my room and play some games, help me study, or go throw a Frisbee in the quad. Everybody is also required to do a sport each term, so I get to hang out with a different group of people, and doing a sport 6 days a week has turned me from a the stereotypical out of shape gamer to a person with less fat and a lot more muscle.

I am sure I would be fine in public school and may have gotten into the same collage and get a good job, but the diference is when I get back home and talk to my old friends who did go to public school, I say "I love high school", and they say "Kill me."

 

[wordsmith]

despite the fact that my gf goes to a private, same sex school, I still (well in jest anyways) hold the opinion that spending the years when you start developing adult feelings for people only around people the same sex as you leads to an increase chance of homosexuality (put down those knives, I said it was a joke!)

 

[Saskwach]

Some study from way back said that boys do better in a same sex school. Girls are unaffected either way if I recall correctly.
Just putting it out there.

 

[kimmyboo]

As a public school teacher, I am rather offended by the idea that public school teachers are "uncaring" and "terrible." If anything, my students would fault me for being too caring. I stay after school every day for at least 2-3 hours in order to make myself available for students who need extra support. I prepare my students not only for college, but also for the real world. In the real world, you get a paycheck for arriving to work on time and doing your job. In my class, you get a good grade by arriving to class on time and doing your work. The "repetitious" crap is what you do in real life. Do you honestly thing you are going to go to a job where you get to do entirely new stuff every single day? Get real. "Grades are given as long as the project is done, not done well." Of course, that again is real life. Do you think that the person who makes your Whopper gets paid less if it is messy and doesn't look like the picture? The point of high school is to prepare you for the future socially and with a work ethic. If you continue to higher education, great. If not, it does not mean that you are a failure or pathetic. Not everyone is cut out of college or university and schools need to admit that and help those students as well.

On the subject of teaching to the lower students, that is a constant challenge. There is an educational practice called "differentiated instruction" which allows teachers to educate students with different ability levels within the classroom at the same time. Most teachers do not do this because it means more work for them. Essentially the teacher has to create 2 or more lesson plans to approach the needs of all student levels within the classroom. The other challenge within "differentiated instruction" is that most teachers end up "punishing" the higher functioning students with more work rather than originally assigning more challenging work.

Is this the fault of public vs. private education? Not at all. There are lower functioning students in private schools because their parents have money. School is what you put into it. I went to a public school, have my bachelor's degree and am now teaching. I do not feel that going to a public school for my entire education in any way hindered my ability to learn or to succeed. That said, don't get me started on NCLB.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

*Breaks out the literary jackboots and knives*

As a citezen of Her Majesty's Isles (technically this could be anywhere in the world, but that's irrelevant) I went to a public school until I was sixteen. I did reasonably well in my GCSE's, but did not do myself justice. Now, that was entirely my fault- it was a damned good school, despite the ethnic minorities fighting in the corridors (I reserve the right to say this- be offended, but the fact remains that at my last school the Pakistanis and black guys spent a lot of time fucking around and fighting. No amount of PC thought can dispute that fact) but I was too fucking lazt to pull A's out of the hat.

After the GCSE's, my father's company relocated us to the Republic of Southern Africa for a specific construction project requiring his expertise. As such, I went to a private school- as does anyone wishing to recieve an education and can afford it in this country- nothing like corruption and inefficent goverment to drop pass rates. Oh, and the national curriculum is a joke. Much like th current and going-to-be presidents, the health minister and the ANC at large. And this is a liberal saying this.

Anyway, this new school has certain advantages. Firstly, I don'y know about more time, but they sure as hell crack the whip over you. And there is more work. Sport is compulsory. Not so bad. Only thing I miss is girls. Outside of school, its party time, so we're either making out or something else. No more intellectual conversations. Damn.

Pass the beer Sizwe.

 

[TheKnifeJuggler]

Having never gone to a public school, I can't give a very accurate comparison of the two.

HOWEVER,
The amount of education one gets at either school depends on their level of involvement. If you send a child who refuses to learn to a private school, they will get the same education as they would in a public school.

As for people from private schools acting like pricks:
It doesn't matter where you look, people are always going to treat each other like crap as long as they have the upper hand. That doesn't mean people who have the upper hand always act that way. It all depends on how you were raised.

I have a stinking suspicion that if I went to an all Guys school I would have my ass kicked daily, considering I'm into: Manga, Anime, Theater, Art, and Video games, and subsequently NOT interested in Sports (other then soccer occasionally) and First person shooters.

 

[werepossum]

SNIP
The issue with school is that a lot of people don't give a crap about liberal arts. It sure as hell isn't going to get you a job and being able to critically think for yourself is not necessarily a useful skill.
SNIP

You know what they say about the major questions:
Engineering Major: How does it work?
Physics Major: Why does it work?
Mathematics Major: What equations model how it works?
Accounting Major: How much does it cost?
Economics Major: What price point can be charge for it to give the most profit?
Architectural Major: How could a building be designed to make it work better?
Law Major: Who can be sued over it?
Liberal Arts Major: You want fries with that?

 

[Lazzi]

People saying that public schools only cater to the lowest denominator- do you not realise that (here in Britain at least) different classes have different skill levels. For example, in the maths department, there were a couple of foundation class for all the thickies, several what you'd call normal classes for normal kids, and one or two accelerated classes for all the nerds. And this was a public, government funded school. The same applies to nearly all departments- English, Science, PE, etc. Perhaps public schools in America are a horrible place to be, but here in England we've for the most part got no reason to complain.

I truly wish it was the same in the united states. We have 5 five differnt groups of eduaction in the united states public school system, with the exculsion of dual enrollment (a commbenation of university and highschool level courses).

The first and Lowest level is a combenation of the slightly handicapped (the very light emotionaly handicapped, and those with light cases of autisum) and the LCD of the normal population. While i cant remeber the name of this it level I can remerb it beign with a L.

Next would you normal classes. The average population no special classifactiosn were.

Honor level classes are for thsoe that want to rise baove the corse levle or the normal population. There are more credits offerd for theses classes along with more recodnision.

Gifted is basicly the same as honors but consit of the children who have been classifed as highly intellgent during there primary school years. While Its doesnt offer any more criedits than an honor corse student they are given more codnison do the that fact that they skill is calssifed as naturle and nto soem thign that they had to work at.

Lastly there is AP or Advanced Placement. These classes are worth univeristy criedts and considerd univerity level.

NOTE: those that have been simaltaiously casslifed as difted and handicaped are called GLD (the majority of witch are usally dyslexic dysgraphic and dyscaculaic or other eaile over coem handy cappes). They are simply put into A gifted class with a secdondary teach that will assit them with what ever problem they might have.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Now on my view of private verses public schooling.

I do have to say that private school do offer a better education if they have entrance exams (the Academys), private school that are private simply for the sake of being private tend to lack the corse work . While priavte school may provid a better education public charter school are able to compete with them easily.

While private school dont purposly breed children/young adults with supriorty complexs its an inevitabel result of there inviroment. If you are some one that has been given a surpirse education live in the top percentage of the population and are suroudned by people who are the saem way as you of corse your goign to treat other people like crap (those those taqht have gone to private school and havent turn out like this well i i can say is good job youve beat the system). Its pure animalistc nature to treat peopel diffent than you worse than peopel like, and the farther adn better you get than then the more dramatic your actiosn are goign to be.

 

[isjusterin]

On dropping out at age 16, I know that is definitely not kosher in Texas (at least under normal circumstances--I'm sure if you're emancipated or something it's different). The rule is, you stay in school until you either graduate or reach age 18. Per example, most of my friends were 18, didn't drop out, graduated, so on so forth la dee da. I'm graduated and going to be a college freshman at 17, which is kosher because I got a diploma. So I guess it varies from state to state, as most bastardized U.S. laws are.

Same sex education seems silly to me in most cases, not because I think having both sexes together is distracting but having them apart seems even more volatile. At least when you have some sort of sexual balance in the school, you don't have guys punching each others' brains out and girls scratching each others' eyes out. From having mostly girl friends and having to sit through most of the insufferable drama that occurs spontaneously amongst girls, I cannot imagine having to go to a single-sex school. Oh, and to reply to werepossum's thought, yes, guys are more distracted by girls' boobies than girls are about getting guys' pants off.

Have some sympathy for the public school teachers. I didn't like most of my teachers just because they were people and I don't like most people, and I was able to distinguish this usual contempt from the thriving, bursting contempt which I felt for administrators. Administrators screwed over me and my friends all throughout public school, and this is the main difference between public and private schools because administrators' positions in public schools aren't so easily threatened by unhappy parents and children. So, teachers are love, and administrators are (usually) bile. Now, if you're one of the few and far between good administrators out there, come out of the woodworks so I can give you a pat on the back.

And don't even get me started on liberal arts. I'm going to go to a liberal arts school and people that use liberal arts majors to get through with college so they can get paid drive me insane.

 

[bermyduck]

I've always gone to a private school. I'm glad I never went to public school. In Bermuda theres kind of a large gap in the standards of education and relative size and make up of the student body. All the private schools are smaller, still mostly white, and all do GCSEs, and either APs, A-levels, or IB etc. The Public schools after middle school are combined into two Mega-schools which are larger, mostly black, and who take GCSEs a year later than teh private schools and end up with some sort of Highschool completion certification which isn't recognized anywhere outside of Bermuda. I may sound arrogant but the public schools are seriously pathetic, they have a less than 50% graduation rate. I remember one day in my AP Physics class we were reading the local newspaper, and there was a huge article about ONE boy in one of the public schools that had managed to achieve an A* in ONE subject in his GCSEs (which aren't mandatory for them). It was some bullshit class like Art too. Anyway, we looking around the room, and between the 4 or 5 of us there we had something like 18 A*s, and we'd never been featured in the newspaper or anything. It was hilarious and really sad. Anyway, thats why im absolutely positive that I am glad that I was lucky enough to go to a private school.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

You know what they say about the major questions:
Engineering Major: How does it work?
Physics Major: Why does it work?
Mathematics Major: What equations model how it works?
Accounting Major: How much does it cost?
Economics Major: What price point can be charge for it to give the most profit?
Architectural Major: How could a building be designed to make it work better?
Law Major: Who can be sued over it?
Liberal Arts Major: You want fries with that?

Stolen.

 

[TheDon]

I personally, believe that neither are particularly special. In my experience most U.S. schools(before college) are poorly structured, and just throw stuff at students rather than teach them how to use it. Only difference with private school is that you pay a lot of money to have stuff thrown at your kids.