Give a woman enough time with anything, and they WILL kick our ass.
Mostly women let us men win because we are sore loosers.
Mostly women let us men win because we are sore loosers.
Pro gaming: boys/men vs girls/women
- Thread starter Udyrfrykte
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Men/boys are very competetive by nature. Pretty much what makes internett gaming the cesspool it is.
Ofc there are women that are competetive also, but centuries of men having to hit eachother over the head to get womanz and power made us ripe for gaming i suppose.
But being too competetive can be a drawback. Get carried away in a rts or somth and all your base will belong to them.
Ofc there are women that are competetive also, but centuries of men having to hit eachother over the head to get womanz and power made us ripe for gaming i suppose.
But being too competetive can be a drawback. Get carried away in a rts or somth and all your base will belong to them.
Calm the fuck down agropot before you burst and take half the planet with you.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I haven't been suggesting anything, I was asking questions because I seriously don't know what causes it.
And even IF I was suggesting it, is it that bad? Genders are different too, just as people. I don't flip out when women go on about how shitty men are doing *something*, and is completely useless at *something*.
At a young age I beat athletes at stamina and sprinting, without ever doing anything besides playing videogames. 2 factors: I was given good genes AND I am male (well, I competed against others males too, but good genes wouldn't be enough in most cases to beat males consistently). That's just sports though, where it's known that men have an advantage.
What I'm asking is that if there is a reason behind basically no girls (that can't be explained by the 60/40 guy/girl ratio alone) at in the very top tiers of gaming. The biological reason was ONE of SEVERAL possible THEORIES.
Keep at it though, lowbrow. Some people just come in and throw 100% feminist-logic at a rational question.
Someone needs to take a chill pill. I'll accept that if you actually list things relevant to video games that men are generally better at. Saying "biological" doesn't explain anything.Udyrfrykte said:
In my personal life, I don't even see the difference with girls and gamers. All the girls my age I know play video games or obsess over video games at the same ratio as the boys I know. To me, they just stay away from public gaming because they get harassed. That's not "part" of the reason, that's completely the reason. 100% the reason.
Do I think it's hot if a girl plays video games? Totally. Because it's something we'd have in common. You know what else I'd find hot? Everybody respecting her and not being rude to her. Please, do EVERYTHING in your power to make this happen. It will pay off SO much, for EVERYBODY!
Edit: Let me explain how this happens.
[obvious]
1: Most guys inherently want to screw every girl on earth. So do I.
2: The stereotypical nerd either doesn't get to have sex often enough (or at all), or is able to hold off with lots of porn/imagination.
3: A girl playing video games suggests that she has a HUUUUUGE similarity to him. Therefore making him think that he has a good chance with her.
4: Absolutely all if his barriers of common decency or logic are broken in an effort to fulfill the need explained in point #1.
[/obvious]
So please! Please just stop doing this. I've been in online communities that used to be total sausage-fests, but whenever a girl came around, we treated her with respect, and just like any other member. Now, girls are joining all the time. Girls who can prove they are girls. And trust me; I've had some hilariously stupid but insanely hot conversations with a few of them. If we could please just do this EVERYWHERE, then I guarantee you, you will thank me!
Do I think it's hot if a girl plays video games? Totally. Because it's something we'd have in common. You know what else I'd find hot? Everybody respecting her and not being rude to her. Please, do EVERYTHING in your power to make this happen. It will pay off SO much, for EVERYBODY!
Edit: Let me explain how this happens.
[obvious]
1: Most guys inherently want to screw every girl on earth. So do I.
2: The stereotypical nerd either doesn't get to have sex often enough (or at all), or is able to hold off with lots of porn/imagination.
3: A girl playing video games suggests that she has a HUUUUUGE similarity to him. Therefore making him think that he has a good chance with her.
4: Absolutely all if his barriers of common decency or logic are broken in an effort to fulfill the need explained in point #1.
[/obvious]
So please! Please just stop doing this. I've been in online communities that used to be total sausage-fests, but whenever a girl came around, we treated her with respect, and just like any other member. Now, girls are joining all the time. Girls who can prove they are girls. And trust me; I've had some hilariously stupid but insanely hot conversations with a few of them. If we could please just do this EVERYWHERE, then I guarantee you, you will thank me!
Hell, if anything, I'd argue that social factors are the main reason. Gaming has been seen as a guy thing for a long time. You combine that with the negative stigma generally attached to "serious"/excessive gaming and I could see the lack of female "pro" gamers.
Asked a similar question to my Psychology teacher in college. Wish I didn't as he went on about it for 2 fucking hours but anyway, he said when it came to competitive aspects in life, be in sport, professional work or even family (and in this case, gaming), males simply have a bigger drive to win. To be the Alpha male in other words, in the chosen field or aspect. He went on t say some girls have this drive too and its no less ambitious but its a simple numbers game.
If you took 10,000 men and say 5,000 women and asked them to do a task or complete a series of objectives, your going to have more male champions, alpha males, than female champions, alphoa females, simply because there is a bigger starting pool of males then females.
If you took 10,000 men and say 5,000 women and asked them to do a task or complete a series of objectives, your going to have more male champions, alpha males, than female champions, alphoa females, simply because there is a bigger starting pool of males then females.
I'd agree with this based on a recount given by Day9 - an ex-pro Starcraft player and a Starcraft 2 guru - of his experiences during a match he played in the WCG finals (can't remember the year). After holding off early pressure he managed to scout his enemy placing down a Nexus - a risky move. Seeing the Nexus he "knew every move that would win him the game". He then attempted to descibe what he called an outer-body experience where his fingers moved on their own and he simply observed the match. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJztfsXKcPQMore Fun To Compute said:
Just thought I'd also throw in this recent win by a female pro-gamer as they seem few and far between. I know a massive reason I game is for the rush of winning and crushing my opponent and therefore I play a lot - that might be what's lacking for women?
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/portals.php?show=news&news_id=726044
Because most girls have no desire to play professionally. Is that really so shocking? I mean, that's what gaming is, right? It's a hobby. A hobby that some people take way too seriously and become crazy good at, but a hobby nonetheless. Even intent gamer girls (and probably a whole bunch of guys) who come onto forums like this would reckon that to go to that extent with games is kind of weird and obsessive. To be honest, I still can't even comprehend that pro-gaming is a thing, and that people get paid for it, so, needless to say, if I think pro-gaming is kind of bizarre and stupid, then chances are there is a huge chunk of people out there who have no interest in it either.
Let's just face it, women are generally less into this kind of extreme nerd culture than men are. Not because we're not into nerdy things; we just express it in different ways. Girls don't really seem to elevate their hobbies the way guys do. If we did, all those playground games I used to play as a little girl would be national sports right now.
So, for every guy out there who decides that becoming a pro gamer sounds like a legitimate career choice, you're going to have a huge proportion of gamer girls saying, "You know, I like games, but I don't want it to be my life," or, as was the case with my ex-girlfriend, they might say they're "Too busy winning Magic: The Gathering tournaments right now to invest in video games." So, yeah, most girls are just interested in other things. I love games, but it's not something I would ever think about devoting my life to, just the same as I'm damn good at poker, but I'm never going to invest time or money in any of those tournaments. It's just not really worth it, in my eyes. I'd rather keep it as just a hobby. Most girls probably think similarly.
Let's just face it, women are generally less into this kind of extreme nerd culture than men are. Not because we're not into nerdy things; we just express it in different ways. Girls don't really seem to elevate their hobbies the way guys do. If we did, all those playground games I used to play as a little girl would be national sports right now.
So, for every guy out there who decides that becoming a pro gamer sounds like a legitimate career choice, you're going to have a huge proportion of gamer girls saying, "You know, I like games, but I don't want it to be my life," or, as was the case with my ex-girlfriend, they might say they're "Too busy winning Magic: The Gathering tournaments right now to invest in video games." So, yeah, most girls are just interested in other things. I love games, but it's not something I would ever think about devoting my life to, just the same as I'm damn good at poker, but I'm never going to invest time or money in any of those tournaments. It's just not really worth it, in my eyes. I'd rather keep it as just a hobby. Most girls probably think similarly.
We already have one poster trying to stir shit up by making me seem like a sexist based on the OP (which I tried to remain as neutral with as possible). There will always be someone trying to make a speculating thread escalate into an effin e-war.viper3 said:I'm just going to leave this here for when the inevitable happens:
So keep this thread on track, don't start turning it into an e-fight with semi-hostile posts.
@badgersprite
No, it's not very shocking. However, since we got no empirical data all we can do is speculate.
I just find it curious that there hasn't been any at all female gamers that I can think of that has really been tearing shit up. There is always someone to break up the norm.
Men are more masculine than women, but still I'm sure women who are more butch than me exist (.. don't read too much into that one).
btw, on progaming: I also find it "bizarre" that someone would choose to pursue it, and bother playing all the time. But I also think that about every other sport. I train MMA/Kickboxing, but I would never dream about going pro. I'm still happy that others do it, so we have someone to further develop the sport and bring me entertainment. I think the same way about pro gamers (even though I only watch SC2).
I like where you came from eventhough I know some girls that took gaming to an extreme and even looked down upon my more casual gameplay eventhough it was very minor. I also knew some female DDR players in a local gaming club that were pretty rude just because they were very good compared to the guys who sucked to a comical level. I respect gamers that take it to another level I try to do it myself. Its just the those who are good male or female need to learn a line of respect because they all sucked that one time and chill on the boasting because they're a different gender.badgersprite said:
Speaking as a girl that almost broke into the "pro"-tier in Company of Heroes back in 2008 after defeating Yokey, the no. 1 ranked Brit player at the time, I think it is safe to say that girls have what it takes to be "pro gamers". The problem I faced however was that I had just started college and had to choose between dedicating 3-4 hours a day to automatching in Company of Heroes or making sure I got into the college mindset properly. In the end I choose college.
The deal is that to become a "pro" you have to put in absurd amounts of time. I would literarly have had to play Company of Heroes 30 hours a week to remain competitive. While I found the game fun (and still do), I wasn't ready to put that much time just into playing. That's before going into the territory of strategizing, discussing strategies, game balance, optimal build patterns etc. which would have taken away at least a dozen hour every week. That's enough time to be a full time job.
We must always keep in mind that the "pros" are a very, very small group of people (in CoH, there were about twenty big names and about a hundred or so smaller but still notable. Out of over 100,000 people playing online). This coupled with the fact that pros become so not only through playing but also through community discussion and community attention means that women are less likely to get into the pro-circles simply because we tend to be less invested in the communities of the games we play.
The deal is that to become a "pro" you have to put in absurd amounts of time. I would literarly have had to play Company of Heroes 30 hours a week to remain competitive. While I found the game fun (and still do), I wasn't ready to put that much time just into playing. That's before going into the territory of strategizing, discussing strategies, game balance, optimal build patterns etc. which would have taken away at least a dozen hour every week. That's enough time to be a full time job.
We must always keep in mind that the "pros" are a very, very small group of people (in CoH, there were about twenty big names and about a hundred or so smaller but still notable. Out of over 100,000 people playing online). This coupled with the fact that pros become so not only through playing but also through community discussion and community attention means that women are less likely to get into the pro-circles simply because we tend to be less invested in the communities of the games we play.
Oh please. These are mascots, not professional gamers in the sense of being competitive at the highest level. Look at their accomplishments: it's immediately apparent they are not great. 17th place placements across multiple major tournaments in their #1 game? When you consider how relatively weak Ubi games' competitive communities were, and that this team had actual financial backing from Ubi, the lack of achievement is glaring. Fact is, no one would pay the slightest attention to this bunch if they were not wimmenz.Stasisesque said:
This is a legit example of women who are actually good at some games which have serious competition scenes. However, they are the exceptions. It's obvious that even considering the overall sex ratio among players, there are much less women that are really good than there "should" be if men and women were really the same.
Inferior play isn't interesting, therefore little publicity.
I think it's a combination of many factors, many of which have already been said in this thread. The one thing I would add is this:
I think that women are just as competitive as men, but (broadly speaking) they compete in different ways. When men compete they like to have clear victory conditions and, often, rules of engagement. When women compete there are few (if any) rules, and only one victory condition: to make their opponent feel as if they have lost in some meaningful way (and for most women, winning and losing at CoD doesn't mean anything).
I think that women are just as competitive as men, but (broadly speaking) they compete in different ways. When men compete they like to have clear victory conditions and, often, rules of engagement. When women compete there are few (if any) rules, and only one victory condition: to make their opponent feel as if they have lost in some meaningful way (and for most women, winning and losing at CoD doesn't mean anything).
Probably more that more guys are into pro-gaming than girls (what with the "casual" market being dominated by females).Sleekgiant said:
So my guess is that it just so happens that more guys try to go pro with gaming than girls. And I doubt that there aren't any girls in pro-gaming. You probably have just never heard of them.
Unlike most othere "sports" men wouldn't actually have a real physical advantage over women. Gaming is all in the hands, reflexs, and mind; all of which there is no real difference between males and females.