problem with martial arts

[Badger Kyre]

First of all that's bullshit and i dare you to say it to any boxer or ultimate fighter of any level.

I misread that, thought It said " of MY level". Like it or not, it's true. The very, very good ones are still very, very good - but at a disadvantage in a real fight, nonetheless - they certainly don't want to meet their combat counterparts.
Not so long ago some instructor at a dojo foolishly involved himself in drama with one of the ARA/SHARP fellas...(A guy that instructs people in fighting techniques in case peaceful protests turn nasty )
And it turned into a fight at the dojo between a "martial arts instructor" ( his dojo ) against an "old guy" with SOME training and YEARS of street fighting experience.. who do YOU think won?

Secondly why are you trying to debunk a point that I haven't made?

because this thread isn't about you, it's about honor and the martial arts.

In the real world the objective is to resolve conflict without anyone getting hurt and the "deadly arts" arn't any use at all for that.

Not necessarily. Which is why "fighting techniques" are still studied. Some people just can't be reasoned with, and it's good to be ready when the wolf comes knocking.
Look up the history of REAL( not civilian taught modern ) krav maga. Ask the Guardian Angels what THEY use.

 

[AngloDoom]

Really?

Most martial-arts I've taken start with "Then you do this.." and end with "...then you run away."

Sure, these martial-arts can kill, and some moves are designed to - but that's a result of the often violent world they were created in.

 

[Badger Kyre]

I said it once, but it bears repeatin'...

ps ; kudos at ya, Electric Drek
"The REAL short version is really simple - special forces develop their own FIGHTING styles -such as Krav Maga - but hardly limited to - because the traditional martial arts, as most people are taught them, are nearly worthless in fighting.
Ask an MP, or a Guardian Angel, or a prison guard.
Or hell, ask ME. In years of street brawls, and 12 years of prison, i never saw a traditional "martial artist" ( or most boxers ) get anything but beat the fucking SHIT out of by people who could actually FIGHT.
I got out and 'cause I'm pretty scrappy ( Badger is my prison nickname ), thought I was reday for semi-pro's, adn leanred the hard way I wasn't. But a friend and I had the same experience - and he was head of security at a local "punk" club; and used to be from Israel - and he can't place in tourney's 'cause very little of what he does in a real fight can he do in a match.
WHich was a good part of what a guy you may have heard of called Bruce Lee was saying.
Maybe you've heard of him?

Better yet, if you can handle the truth, these two guys make a pretty damn good point - and they also show fighting styles, made for hurting people, as opposed to what most civilians get taught.
Damn well done. http://www.viddler.com/explore/rim/videos/1/ "

ps, when talking about eastern martial arts, most only survived through orders of monks, and for a very good, historical reason.
If you care enough to spout an opinion, you should care enough to look up that history.
Just saying.

 

[Ampersand]

I like honor in martial arts. Everyone who says honor is outdated, remind me to NEVER have you watch my back when we're outnumbered or in a tight spot. I will not trust you, and would sooner fight alone than have to wonder "Is he going to cover me?" Too much to worry about.

I hear THAT. We can quibble about styles, but honor and discipline are something civilian society has forgotten. to no good reason.

First of all that's bullshit and i dare you to say it to any boxer or ultimate fighter of any level.

Secondly why are you trying to debunk a point that I haven't made? Those aren't modern martial arts, their sports, the objective is to win the game.
In the real world the objective is to resolve conflict without anyone getting hurt and the "deadly arts" arn't any use at all for that.

Thirdly stop reciting martial arts cliches. Seriously have you practiced martial arts or just watched alot of movies?

It's most certainly NOT bullshit; have dared, and probably will again.
Maybe you should go back a few posts and see who and what you are talking to.

It's interesting that my boy from Israel is in the army now, and isn't even IN close-combat- I expected him to become a trainer-
as for me, I have SMASHED an ex-golden glove - but if we had been BOXING I would have gotten slaughtered, so , so much for boxers. I have a JAB that has hosiptalized men - one straight to ICU - but a good enough boxer ain't likely to let me get that in, so I go for takedowns if I can.
As to ultimate fighters, are you claiming to BE an ultimate fighter ? I did see just the other day, the fella beta up the football player here in Austin. Not a very sporting fight, but... look at his fighting style.
Myself, I tried to place, and couldn't get into semi-pro's.
Let's just say, I've had my share of "martial arts" AND "fighting styles", and I don't LIKE martial arts movies. These aren't cliches in movies, these are truisms amongst people that actually might engage in combat for a living.
Which if you are what you are claiming, you should be pretty aware of.
You SOUND like one of those dojo puppies that talks all tough and gets his ass bent over by an MP... not that I've ever seen THAT, lol.

I'm not an ultimate fighter, I don't believe in fighting for sport.

I'm not the one that's talking tough am I? I'd much rather talk things out then fight and that's how I solve most of my problems, because that what adults do.
You on the other hand are bosting about being able to put a guy in hospital with your fist. You'll have to forgive me for thinking that isn't very impressive since any clown can do it.
Real martial arts is about diffusing hostile situations and not agitating them with macho bollocks.

Also it's become obvious that you've misinterpreted what I mean by modern martial arts.
They arn't for killing and they arn't for sport, martial arts are for controling a situation. If you do that right you should never need to use violence. Modern Jiujitsu and aikido are good example, even if the shit hits the fan you can defend yourself without having to through a single punch. If no one gets their noes broken in the first 30 seconds of a conflict it makes it a lot easier to resolve.

 

[Ampersand]

First of all that's bullshit and i dare you to say it to any boxer or ultimate fighter of any level.

I misread that, thought It said " of MY level". Like it or not, it's true. The very, very good ones are still very, very good - but at a disadvantage in a real fight, nonetheless - they certainly don't want to meet their combat counterparts.
Not so long ago some instructor at a dojo foolishly involved himself in drama with one of the ARA/SHARP fellas...(A guy that instructs people in fighting techniques in case peaceful protests turn nasty )
And it turned into a fight at the dojo between a "martial arts instructor" ( his dojo ) against an "old guy" with SOME training and YEARS of street fighting experience.. who do YOU think won?

Secondly why are you trying to debunk a point that I haven't made?

because this thread isn't about you, it's about honor and the martial arts.

In the real world the objective is to resolve conflict without anyone getting hurt and the "deadly arts" arn't any use at all for that.

Not necessarily. Which is why "fighting techniques" are still studied. Some people just can't be reasoned with, and it's good to be ready when the wolf comes knocking.
Look up the history of REAL( not civilian taught modern ) krav maga. Ask the Guardian Angels what THEY use.

Yeah i'm with you one most of your points here but I would still argue that excessive force is still only to be called upon as a last resort.

 

[jamesworkshop]

I was in philosophy class today and something hit me. I studied Shito-ryu for 3 years, and it was pounded into my head that this was teaching my respect, honer, and all that jazz, but none of my teachers seemed to mention that this was made for KILLING. I never really saw it as respect more of an "Appeal to Authority". Non-Eastern fighting forms (eg: Krav Maga) are more survival oriented. In KM you are told "this is you enemy, he has a knife, kill him before he kills you". This is what Eastern fighting styles started as to paraphrase a comedian "Karate was invented to teach you how to kill someone with a rice ball from across the room." don't give me that "it'll teach you respect bullshit, it a method of killing nothing more.

You do realise Martial art means war skill, to still call what is actually now taught as civilian defence intended for urban settings, a Martial art is a misnomer anyway.

Self defence / any method that avoids combat primarily or use minimal amount of force to disuade or subdue an attacker in a non-leathal way.
Avoiding injury is the only concern running away is more than welcome

combat sport / A game within a set of rules often involving some kind of scoring system and size/weight system to make the contest fair, Not useful in real fights where weapons/ firearms/multipul attakers/larger opponents exist to make the combat unfair and one sided which the rules of combat sports seek to minimise

martial art / A system designed for members of the military, the stratagey that a dead enemy poses no threat, a civilian cannot be by defintion a martial artist, the killing of your opponent and avoiding your own death on a battlefield is the sole intention of a war skill

three very different things