Problems that men have to deal with

[CymbaIine]

?A son?s a son until he takes a wife?

I find the sentiment still seems to be true. In fact there is a whole minefield when it comes to men's relationship with their birth families.

 

[CymbaIine]

Whatever the reason, how disposable men are, weakness of the victim, or the age of the victim - killing a male isn't as bad as killing a woman.

You just literally stated that "whatever the reason, the reason is that killing a male isn't as bad". If the reason is the weakness of the victim, then the reason is not the gender of the victim. It's that simple.

I fail to see how being stronger than someone else is any comfort to you or your family if you're dead. The idea that killing a woman is worse because they're more defenseless is crazy. If you've been murdered, then by definition you were unable to defend yourself. Being dead isn't worse for a weak person, being dead is being dead. It's one thing we can say with confidence is experienced the same by the weak and the strong, the poor and the rich alike.

It also seems to me that killing a strong woman would be considered worse than killing a weak, but physically able, man (I don't actually know if that's true but it certainly seems to be the case). If anything, it's to do with average gender strength rather than individual victim strength, therefore the reason is the gender of the victim rather than the specific weakness of the victim.

I think I agree with you. I say think because I am still pondering.

Man out on the town. Pissed up. Staggers into somebody accidentally. Person he staggers into knifes him.

Woman out on the town. Pissed up. Staggers into somebody accidentally. Person she staggers into knifes her.

I reckon in that scenario the woman would garner more sympathy than the man even though they were both equally as vulnerable. I don't know that that means people value the mans life LESS, certainly not if they thought about it. I could definitely see that initial reactions would probably reflect your view though.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I fail to see how being stronger than someone else is any comfort to you or your family if you're dead. The idea that killing a woman is worse because they're more defenseless is crazy. If you've been murdered, then by definition you were unable to defend yourself. Being dead isn't worse for a weak person, being dead is being dead. It's one thing we can say with confidence is experienced the same by the weak and the strong, the poor and the rich alike.

Sure, it's a foolish idea, that it's worse because you killed someone by not playing fair in your murder, but it a sentiment that's still pretty strong.

Often, it's considered better to die in your sleep, you don't know anything about it. But it's better to be in danger while awake, so you can do something about it. Once you've been murdered, yeah, not so relevant.

 

[Stephen St.]

I fail to see how being stronger than someone else is any comfort to you or your family if you're dead.

No.

The idea that killing a woman is worse because they're more defenseless is crazy.

Nevertheless, it's not uncommon to lump women and children together in the "defenseless innocent victims" category.

If you've been murdered, then by definition you were unable to defend yourself. Being dead isn't worse for a weak person, being dead is being dead. It's one thing we can say with confidence is experienced the same by the weak and the strong, the poor and the rich alike.

I think you misunderstand me. I am not trying to justify different treatment of the cases. I am just saying that the explanation for the different treatment is not that people think that men are more expendable, but that women are just weaker and less able to defend themselves, and that makes it worse.

It also seems to me that killing a strong woman would be considered worse than killing a weak, but physically able, man (I don't actually know if that's true but it certainly seems to be the case). If anything, it's to do with average gender strength rather than individual victim strength, therefore the reason is the gender of the victim rather than the specific weakness of the victim.

It has to do with the perception of the average strength and ability of the gender, yes. Killing a less able victim appears to be a more heinous crime, and it's often assumed that women are by default less able and more in need of protection. The decision isn't based on the gender, it's based on a perception which is itself based on gender stereotypes. It's also not about the value of the victim (it's absurd to consider the less able victim more valuable) but about the personality of the perpetrator, those who kill the weak and defenseless are considered worse people.

 

[Piorn]

Being almost constantly horny is a damn nuisance. It makes me moody, and makes it difficult to enjoy real entertainment.
Shaving irritates my skin, but not shaving does too.
And while I've been building up some cardio, I'm not even close to a body that can be considered attractive, I guess. I'm basically built like Waluigi. And it's really hard to find jeans that fit me. I'd like to feel confident in my body for a change.

That's enough whining I guess.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Being almost constantly horny is a damn nuisance. It makes me moody, and makes it difficult to enjoy real entertainment.
Shaving irritates my skin, but not shaving does too.
And while I've been building up some cardio, I'm not even close to a body that can be considered attractive, I guess. I'm basically built like Waluigi. And it's really hard to find jeans that fit me. I'd like to feel confident in my body for a change.

That's enough whining I guess.

As mentioned (excepting the former), those are problems more usually associated with women. Now, not to say that men don't suffer from them as well, of course.

EDIT: Oh, they got modded in 5 minutes? That's a pretty good reaction time.

 

[Patrick Buck]

But it doesn't stop there. Gym in high school was a bit of a miserable experience for me. Because there was a non-competitive side and a competitive side. All of the guys were on the competitive side, with the exception of me and about three others who were with all of the girls on the non-competitive side

At our school we had similar and it was usually a choice of football (soccer) or trampolining. It was clearly intended to divide the boys and the girls. I like football but some days (if it was particularly cold/wet trampolining sounded like a better option. You would get called gay for not doing football. Being a relatively smart kid my retort was usually "So you are telling me that being in a room surrounded by girls jumping up and down is gay. Yet taking part in an (almost) exclusively male activity isnt?" Needless to say they shut up

I think this video is relevant. I mostly drink "manly" drinks but I think this video has a very good point. When I do have a "girly" drink im like "damn this shit is tasty"

That video... is amazing. And so true.

Yeah, I just started uni at a mainly sports based uni, and I'm not studying sport. I feel... a little bit looked down on, literally and metaphorically as all the other men seem to be build like brick shithouses, and then there's me. I'm not small, but I don't play any sport at all so I really don't compare. Eh.

 

[Krispness]

Men's fashion is shit. Women get all the pretty and fun stuff. They get interesting boots and colorful tops and jewelry and makeup and dresses, my god, don't get me started on dresses.

But no, I'm a man, so if I take an interest in dresses I am at best a pervert. God forbid if I actually would want to try wearing a dress some time, even thinking that makes me not just gay but a pervert and a freak as well.

Nevermind wearing a dress, we literally have like 3 options for dressing up. I tried a sweater over a shirt once and was like, damn, i have another option from shirt with or without tie.

 

[Hochmeister]

Haven't had many problems as a man, certainly not nearly as bad as some of you. The disliking sports thing does make it difficult for me to befriend and hang out with most other guys, but I've never felt actively persecuted for it. Probably helps that I skipped High School, which while great, lead to my main guy problem which is with women. See, when you skip High School most of your dating prospects in College are 4 years older than you, and since men aren't expected to pursue or date someone that much older than them finding relationships is terribly awkward. Add in the societal expectation that the man "take the lead" in initiating and driving relationships and combine it with my somewhat passive nature, and I pretty much have no ability to get into a relationship, and even less ability to handle one when I do, which feeds back into itself by making it difficult for me to get experience with relationships to be able to handle relationships. If I were a woman my love life would be far easier since I could realistically sit around and expect a man to take the lead, but then I'd have a bunch of other problems instead. C'est la vie.

 

[DrOswald]

Men's fashion is shit. Women get all the pretty and fun stuff. They get interesting boots and colorful tops and jewelry and makeup and dresses, my god, don't get me started on dresses.

But no, I'm a man, so if I take an interest in dresses I am at best a pervert. God forbid if I actually would want to try wearing a dress some time, even thinking that makes me not just gay but a pervert and a freak as well.

I dunno.
Let me give an example.
Last year I bought boots and few months later my sister bought boots as well.
We both payed the same price.
My boots are scientific marvel, a result of development of chemistry, physics and ergonomics.
Her boots are... pretty.
My boots can go to hell and back, while keeping feet safe and comfortable
Her boots are great for... um... sitting?

I personally wouldn't change things around
(I wouldn't mind if female footwear would incorporate these advances as well, though)

The difference here is that it is socially acceptable for her to wear your boots but not for you to wear her boots.

Virtually anything a man can wear is socially acceptable for a woman to wear (with the exception of topless outfits.) It may not be considered particularly flattering for a woman to wear a pair of loose cargo pants and a t shirt, but no one is going to look twice. On the other hand, a man wearing a skirt and heels is the freak of the hour.

It is socially acceptable for women to wear male specific clothes but not for men to wear female specific clothes.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

I can't believe I didn't find condoms on here. I haven't looked at every page but I really thought it would show up more.

 

[Luciella]

It's probably just me, but all the complains seem to me superficial AT BEST. Why do YOU guys care if you can/can't wear womens boots? Its unconfortable as hell, want to try it? No one is opposed. Fear what people might say? it's the price, but ultimately who gives a shi** what people say, unless they want to beat the crap out of you for wearing them.

The tall guy....OP. JEEZZUS FU***** CHRIST!!! Why in the seven hells do you care if people ask if you play basketball?? WHO CARES! What is REAALLY IMPORTANT is that most of women 95% LOVE tall guys, the taller the better. We give no fu*** if you play basketball, you love to write? Hell!! i would prefer a writter 100000000 times more than a superficial sports man.

All of you, stop wasting time on irrelevant stuff. Those "problems", they exist yes, they are going to stay yes, they are going to stay for AT LEAST another generation yes.

ADAPT TO IT
AS MOST OF WOMEN AND MEN HAVE TO, to fit your own needs/wishes w/o hurting 3rd parties.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It's probably just me, but all the complains seem to me superficial AT BEST. Why do YOU guys care if you can/can't wear womens boots? Its unconfortable as hell, want to try it? No one is opposed. Fear what people might say? it's the price, but ultimately who gives a shi** what people say, unless they want to beat the crap out of you for wearing them.

While I tend to agree, that particularly example isn't that unlikely. Not looking sufficiently cishet will get a man into trouble, sometimes very badly.

 

[Suhi89]

It's probably just me, but all the complains seem to me superficial AT BEST. Why do YOU guys care if you can/can't wear womens boots? Its unconfortable as hell, want to try it? No one is opposed. Fear what people might say? it's the price, but ultimately who gives a shi** what people say, unless they want to beat the crap out of you for wearing them.

The tall guy....OP. JEEZZUS FU***** CHRIST!!! Why in the seven hells do you care if people ask if you play basketball?? WHO CARES! What is REAALLY IMPORTANT is that most of women 95% LOVE tall guys, the taller the better. We give no fu*** if you play basketball, you love to write? Hell!! i would prefer a writter 100000000 times more than a superficial sports man.

All of you, stop wasting time on irrelevant stuff. Those "problems", they exist yes, they are going to stay yes, they are going to stay for AT LEAST another generation yes.

ADAPT TO IT
AS MOST OF WOMEN AND MEN HAVE TO, to fit your own needs/wishes w/o hurting 3rd parties.

I actually agree with this. On the other hand, men do have real issues around education, healthcare, being victims of violence, homelessness, suicide etc. I gave some stats around some issues I think are disproportionately faced by men in an earlier post. My belief is that those of us who care about the difficulties that men face should focus on the big things. Underperforming in education, being more likely to be the victim of violent crime and murder, having a much lower life expectancy, being much more likely to be homeless, having close to no support if you're a victim of domestic violence, these aren't superficial, and we should work to fix them.

 

[DrOswald]

It's probably just me, but all the complains seem to me superficial AT BEST. Why do YOU guys care if you can/can't wear womens boots? Its unconfortable as hell, want to try it? No one is opposed. Fear what people might say? it's the price, but ultimately who gives a shi** what people say, unless they want to beat the crap out of you for wearing them.

The tall guy....OP. JEEZZUS FU***** CHRIST!!! Why in the seven hells do you care if people ask if you play basketball?? WHO CARES! What is REAALLY IMPORTANT is that most of women 95% LOVE tall guys, the taller the better. We give no fu*** if you play basketball, you love to write? Hell!! i would prefer a writter 100000000 times more than a superficial sports man.

All of you, stop wasting time on irrelevant stuff. Those "problems", they exist yes, they are going to stay yes, they are going to stay for AT LEAST another generation yes.

ADAPT TO IT
AS MOST OF WOMEN AND MEN HAVE TO, to fit your own needs/wishes w/o hurting 3rd parties.

Well excuse me for not wanting to be judged for my choice in footwear.

But I have to wonder... would you be singing the same tone if it was a woman who wished she wasn't judged by her clothes? Would you tell her that she should stop wasting her time on such irrelevant, shallow stuff? Should she just adapt to it?

 

[Spearmaster]

I think the responses in this thread need to be sorted into 2 categories. Problems from being "Male" and problems with being a "Man". "Man" carries with it a lot more preconceived notions about its characteristics where "Male" is just a biological definition. It sounds like a lot of "Males" want to have the honor of being called "Men" without having to put forth the effort and also that a lot of "Males" are feeling the pressure of having "Man" pushed on them. Maybe its time we stop referring to every "Male" of the species as a "Man" by default. I don't know which the OP was trying to identify with, being "Male" or being a "Man" so I cant really say what concerns are warranted and which are just whining.

The term "Man" carries so much more with it than the term "Male" but "Man" has been used interchangeably with "Male" for so long that the term "Manly Man" showed up to signify that there is more to "Man" than just a biological definition. So right now it seems were in between "Man" meaning "Male" and "Man" meaning "Manly Man". So, every "Male" has to decide for themselves weather they identify as simply "Male" or as the sub-gender "Man" then we can have a proper discussion.

 

[Lokis Maliki]

I think the responses in this thread need to be sorted into 2 categories. Problems from being "Male" and problems with being a "Man". "Man" carries with it a lot more preconceived notions about its characteristics where "Male" is just a biological definition. It sounds like a lot of "Males" want to have the honor of being called "Men" without having to put forth the effort and also that a lot of "Males" are feeling the pressure of having "Man" pushed on them. Maybe its time we stop referring to every "Male" of the species as a "Man" by default. I don't know which the OP was trying to identify with, being "Male" or being a "Man" so I cant really say what concerns are warranted and which are just whining.

The term "Man" carries so much more with it than the term "Male" but "Man" has been used interchangeably with "Male" for so long that the term "Manly Man" showed up to signify that there is more to "Man" than just a biological definition. So right now it seems were in between "Man" meaning "Male" and "Man" meaning "Manly Man". So, every "Male" has to decide for themselves weather they identify as simply "Male" or as the sub-gender "Man" then we can have a proper discussion.

from a social psyc/biological sense, what you are saying makes sense, but is irrelevent.

this thread is about cultural expectations that rot each particular person.

given you seem to be trying to pull in the bio vs cultural aspects, you may find it interesting that cultural archetypes for men are significantly less in western cultural than the archetypes for woman.

as many issues as women actually face in western/world cultures, they have more variety of behavioral patterns to choose from and still have the safety as being viewed as a normal member of that gender.

in all honesty, i got lucky. six and a half feet and built like a wall. got really good about shutting down anyone who questioned my actions and i am aggressive enough to do whatever i feel like. as said, i got lucky and some of this shit still annoys me.

this is a discussion that is actually important due to the fact that male stereotypes actually isolate men from the support that many of them require (all of them in honesty). someone mentioned depression and suicide in an earlier post. take a look at those rates in male vs female populations and then, please reconsider the nitpicking and see the tread for what it is.

which is in my opinion: guys, as pissed off as women get for the same reason, listing their personal grips.

josh

 

[Luciella]

I actually agree with this. On the other hand, men do have real issues around education, healthcare, being victims of violence, homelessness, suicide etc. I gave some stats around some issues I think are disproportionately faced by men in an earlier post. My belief is that those of us who care about the difficulties that men face should focus on the big things. Underperforming in education, being more likely to be the victim of violent crime and murder, having a much lower life expectancy, being much more likely to be homeless, having close to no support if you're a victim of domestic violence, these aren't superficial, and we should work to fix them.

Yes, the world should work to make a safe and peaceful eviroment for everyone, both genders. YET, its not going to happen anytime soon, due to human nature. So, i would suggest to make whatever we have, where ever we live, to work to our advantage, without hurting others.
Every person both genders face difficult situations, its irrelevant to compete on WHO gets the shortest or largest straw on the problem/sexsim/victimhood parade. Everyone suffers to some degree or other and all suffering is valid.

What can you do? Well, for starters not talking about it endlessly on a post on a forum of hardcore gamers that rarely get any media attention. Join a pro-bono law firm and work actively on the issue. Don't let it die in mere thoughts going back and forth. And for the love of all that exists, be empathic to not JUST your problems, but to everyones problems.

Well excuse me for not wanting to be judged for my choice in footwear.

But I have to wonder... would you be singing the same tone if it was a woman who wished she wasn't judged by her clothes? Would you tell her that she should stop wasting her time on such irrelevant, shallow stuff? Should she just adapt to it?

Dude, whatever you wear, even if its a PRADA or the shoes from some dead soldier in Irak, is going to get judged. Whatever you do, IS going to get judged. So, let them judge away and adapt to the situation. If you want to reduce the judgement percentage: dress on the same level that the others in your enviroment do. Want to use boots with high heels? well there are groups, surely that have reunions to show off their new shoes and you can scratch that itch. Want to wear them in public w/o getting stares? Sorry, that aint gonna happen in the next 50 years or more.

I am a woman, i got judged all my school/univ life and even now on what i wear/do/play and i give a FU**. And yes, its irrelevant and shallow. And i adapt to it, i make it work. Say, i like tank tops with geeky references, well i make the tank top look cool and fashonable with the rest of what i wear, its about an equilibrium in adapting to the enviroment and doing what i like. Thats how you evolve, you wont get anywhere if you make your opinions with the rest of the world crash...
What you get in there is hurt.

 

[Senare]

This thread is a gem, and I mean that in the positive sense. I have been lurking in wait for something else than gender discussions that constantly have the backdrop of female issues. Why is this so important to me though? Well...

Ostensibly, the "not all men"-defence annoys a lot of feminists not because it is false (of course not all men do the bad things), but because it shifts the focus of a discussion of female problems to a discussion of male problems. It is not so much the case that male problems are unworthy of discussion as much as that focus shift seems to crops up so frequently that the original topic is left undiscussed.

Just as discussions of female issues need to remain focused so does a thread about men's issues. I truly think that men's issues need attention. And I have a suspicion that a lot of the flak "Men's Rights Activists" catch is because they are not remaining focused on men's issues, but men's problems as contrasted to female problems. I am much more interested in questions like "what are the expectations of being a man, and which of them are stupid?" than some sort of male vs. female power struggle conspiracy. (Again, this is an uninformed suspicion of what the MRA community is like in general, not a statement of definite truth.)

TLDR: I think that this thread is framing the male gender discussion in an unusually constructive light. Thanks for creating it!