Problems with me and starcraft 2

[Balimaar]

ive been practicing some sc2 recently against the AI. I play as Zerg (I love them, just the way the race works I fell in love with since the zerg campaign in the original).

I'm able to get a zergling out in just a little over 3 minutes (probably be faster if I learned the hotkeys and time the Overlord spawnings properly). I can pump out my first lot of roaches at around 5 minutes. All against the AI.

I was feeling comfortable with my build orders I learned (I learned and tweaked orders for ZvZ, ZvP and ZvT).

And yet, whenever I go online to face against my fellow members of the human race... everything goes to pot.

Against the AI, I more or less have everything timing pretty well. I always seem to have just enough minerals and gas for what I want.

And yet against a human... i cant time shiz to save my life! I either have faaaaar too many minerals compared to gas (like my last game, when my opponent made his final push I had 2k minerals and 150 gas) or none at all. I dont keep track of my population, so I get myself supply blocked.

my question here is really this:

What the hell happens to me from someone who can play a decent game against the hardest AI and win almost all but when it comes to playing against humans, I may as well replace myself with the Very Easy AI?

In actual fact... the Very Easy AI is probably more of a challenge :S

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I don't get it, playing against a human and the AI should make no difference to your timing, unless nerves are making you mess up your timing? The only difference is the behavior of your opponent, so I'm guessing you just need to learn appropriate responses for different situations. Watch some Day9. Also if there is room for improvement, as you said learning the hotkeys and overlord timings then why not learn them, they can only improve your game.

 

[RicoGrey]

*sigh* yeah I used to play starcraft 2, then I realized I just wasn't willing to commit the time and practice the game requires. At an overall level the game is quite simple, practice more against human opponents and less against AI. Accept defeat as a chance to learn more. You will get better at playing against humans.

Also, I just want to say that I quit playing SC2 because it was too hard. In order to play competitively you have to put a lot into the game, and for me it just wasn't fun. It became a stressed induced nightmare.

I highly recommend you don't bother with it, and just move on to a less stressful game. SC2 IS NOT MEANT FOR NORMAL PEOPLE. And you know what...that's fine, it is meant for the hardcore of the hardcore. They need a game just for them, but for normals like myself, it just will never be.

If you want to equate normals with casual, fine, I would rather be casual than learn to play SC2 well.

Seriously man, learn to do something useful with your life other than SC2. Shit, learning to properly flip a hamburger will be more useful than how to get to roaches in 5 minutes.

 

[Xeorm]

Sounds like your issue is practicing the wrong things. Initial openers are great, and practicing them is good, but if you practice too much against an AI you'll get too used to the AI's timing.

It's really one of those things that takes a bit of practice, and having a general idea of what you want, rather than anything specific like you'll find with your initial build orders.

Best thing I can recommend is finding a human partner you like playing with. Do stupid stuff, play against the AI in weird scenarios, play teams, etc. It's a lot of fun if you get a little into it, like most other games.

 

[skywolfblue]

I don't get it, playing against a human and the AI should make no difference to your timing, unless nerves are making you mess up your timing? The only difference is the behavior of your opponent, so I'm guessing you just need to learn appropriate responses for different situations. Watch some Day9. Also if there is room for improvement, as you said learning the hotkeys and overlord timings then why not learn them, they can only improve your game.

I'll second this.

Day9 is an excellent source of beginner-friendly (and pro as well) strategy advice. I enjoyed his videos immensely, even though I don't play much online.

The AI has a set pattern, players are different and will do weird stuff, learning how to adapt and deal with that weird stuff is what will make you a better player. For example, you hardly ever need to scout the AI to see what it's doing, but in multiplayer scouting is extremely important to know what the other guy is up to early in the game.

 

[Tiger Sora]

Ahh yes SC2 and being "Korean" to win. I may have played against a few in my career, might have even beat some I don't know (doubtful). I never used hot keys, I was all mouse and awsd for moving around the map, or arrow keys.
I was also the unconventional strategist, using my own tactics I applied early to the game.
The 'Tiger patented' Thor / Marine tactic.
Super heavy firepower surrounded by a fleshy power armor encased meat shield. It worked so damn well and I rarely ever saw other Terran players use it.

I don't play anymore, but many hours were logged on there.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Yes yes Starcraft competitive, grind the build orders till you bleed.

Essentially your fingers aren't bleeding yet, i.e. you haven't drilled that build order to perfection and you mess up the timings under pressure.
But more importantly you need to segment that shit up so you can adapt to the dynamic conditions that always come while playing with people, what to do with excess resources, excess units, when to expand, when to upgrade, when to attack,...

 

[Balimaar]

ive only ever had two wins (ever) in SC2 and both of those were copy paste applications of build orders I found and tweaked a little. (As quick as possible Hydras and Mutas - some hydras burrowed at the natural, others burrowed near the main entrance. meanwhile mutas are harassing the enemy mineral line).

im thinking its mainly nerves and an overly eager sense of pressing the surrender button.

i think i give up too easily against shock and awe tactics. a mass of colossi striding towards me usually gets me to give up, despite me having the resources and the economy and the tech to quickly build an army capable of fighting off the advance.

maybe i should try another race? i dont know :S

Also, I just want to say that I quit playing SC2 because it was too hard. In order to play competitively you have to put a lot into the game, and for me it just wasn't fun.

I highly recommend you don't bother with it, and just move on to a less stressful game. SC2 IS NOT MEANT FOR NORMAL PEOPLE. And you know what...that's fine, it is meant for the hardcore of the hardcore.

Seriously man, learn to do something useful with your life other than SC2. Shit, learning to properly flip a hamburger will be more useful than how to get to roaches in 5 minutes.

I had a similar train of thought when it came to warcraft 3. from watching a couple replays and asking questions like this on the net I actually became someone who could hold his own against nearly anyone and win my fair share.

i already do flip burgers part time SC2 stress is a lot less stressful than working at my work trust me

 

[S_SienZ]

Zerg resource management takes some time for newbies to catch on compared to Protoss and Terran due to how different their production mechanics are. You need to have appropriate number of hatcheries, queens and hit your injects on the dot otherwise you won't have the larvae to make units with anyway even if you have buttloads of minerals / gas.

Other fundamentals include setting your own hotkeys and being comfortable with them. Good players never spare a moment to think what key they're gonna hit coz it's all muscle memory and 2nd nature to them.

As Zerg your main priorities in terms of build orders should be:

1. Learning how to be comfortable expanding early (You should be getting your 1st expansion before your spawning pool in 90% of games)

2. Scouting and preparing proper defence for any early aggression.

3. Taking a 3rd base and transition into midgame.

Midgame is where Zerg shines at a low lvl, as they have by far the best production in terms of units produced in a short amount of time. You could easily overwhelm most low level opponents by simplying massing up a deathball and A-moving.

 

[omega 616]

Like others have said, just watch day9.

There was one episode he did about the very very basics of starcraft, from how to position your hand on the keyboard and mouse to how to move the camera around the map.

I know it sounds quite sad and childish but he makes learning fun, I have been crying with laughter at some of this antics.

 

[Balimaar]

make lords make drones make lords make drones make lords make drones make lords make drones make lords make drones make lords make drones

did i mention make lords make drones make lords make drones?

watched the first newbie tuesday video he made yesterday, if he carries on like this I'll defintely become a better player. just from watching that first episode in the 3 matches I played afterwards I was actually competitive!

 

[Balimaar]

apologies for the double post here guys but thought it made more sense to reply here rather than create a whole new thread for a similar topic.

is there a website where I can upload my replays and get some people to give me tips on improvement based on my replays?

 

[Terrible Opinions]

There are many such sites [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Replay_Websites]. If I do look at your replays, 90% of my comments will be something like "you should be building drones right now; why aren't you building drones right now". That's partly because I haven't played in ages and have little idea what the modern meta is and partly because I'm protoss, but mostly because your main problem is probably just not building shit.

Also, learn them hotkeys. You kinda totally need them to play.

EDIT: Oh, and the other big thing? Practice partners. A lot of your problem is from ladder anxiety. You're playing people you don't know, and you're playing to win.

Play against someone you're comfortable with with the understanding that you're both just trying to figure out what the fuck, not bash each-other's skulls in.

 

[Balimaar]

There are many such sites [http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Replay_Websites]. If I do look at your replays, 90% of my comments will be something like "you should be building drones right now; why aren't you building drones right now". That's partly because I haven't played in ages and have little idea what the modern meta is and partly because I'm protoss, but mostly because your main problem is probably just not building shit.

Also, learn them hotkeys. You kinda totally need them to play.

EDIT: Oh, and the other big thing? Practice partners. A lot of your problem is from ladder anxiety. You're playing people you don't know, and you're playing to win.

Play against someone you're comfortable with with the understanding that you're both just trying to figure out what the fuck, not bash each-other's skulls in.

The problem for me with regards to training partners is that none of my friends play starcraft (they are all bf3 or cod players) and i havent bumped into anyone during ladders that i like (they tend to leave without a gg or respond to me at the start when I wish them luck and fun)

 

[Terrible Opinions]

Hrmph. Well, since I haven't played in months and months and months, I'd be down for at least learning the maps against you. Could help your ZvP (hint: expand like a motherfuck; roach army into infestor brood lord).

And tl.net usually has a practice partner thread running, though it's probably a lot smaller these days than when I was playing.

 

[Razentsu]

Nerves can really get in the way of how you play. Remember to keep focused - you don't want to busy your mind with worry. Get that build down and adapt to your opponent accordingly. Keep playing people and you'll eventually be able to keep yourself composed.

But yeah, Day[9] is a wonderful man. I don't play much SC2 anymore, but I still watch his stuff. He's quite the entertainer.

 

[guitarsniper]

Day9 isn't really beginner-friendly. Even the newbie tuesdays assume you've got the basics under control and just need tips for tightening your play.

@OP: when practiciing build orders against the AI, remember to scout. Don't hurry with pumping roaches, go into long macro games and see how you can hold up. Go hatch first or 16 hatch and then take a 3rd soon. Always scout, keep zerglings around the map, one next to their base. If you see them attacking, you have enough time to make units with your saved-up larva and resources, maybe some spine crawlers too. Later on, when you have an ungodly number of drones, tech up and go for a massive army.
As for your performance vs humans, you have to understand that playing against a human is very different from playing against the AI. The nervousness will go away eventually, just keep playing. The core of SC2 is practice.

I disagree with trying to do macro games against AI, because it doesn't tend to expand nearly as aggressively as a human player of any race would. Or at least I'd bear that fact in mind. Liquipedia is also an excellent resource.

 

[Balimaar]

yeah that is really a major flaw in the ai (default or otherwise) the ai doesnt seem to expand at all ive found in my training matches. ill have 3 hatcheries and scout with a couple zerglings or mutas (whatevers handy at the time) and find that the ai still hasnt even expanded to its natural.

i achieved my first win this season against a guy playing 'random'. I dont see too many of those (in fact hes the first one i saw).

all in all it was a good enjoyable match where I basically steamrolled my opponent with a superior economy and some minor maneuvering skills.

in the final battle i sent my army consisting of hydras, brood lords and my surviving zerglings up his ramp to be greeted by a horde of hydras. the battle commenced but i soon noticed that most of my hydras were trapped on the ramp and not able to get shots in. so i retreated into the open area in front of his base and his army followed. i stopped just as the first of his units were about to come off the ramp and blasted away. this time all my units got shots in and only 25% of his could. his army was swiftly destroyed and thus began the pillage of his base ^_^

im sorry guys. i was rather proud of that final battle

all in all thanks to the few day9 vids i have seen, I have already become a much better SC2 player and am beginning to feel that i could take on anyone around my level and a little above and have a decent shot at the win.

thanks guys for your advice!