Progressive Zootopia Movie Franchise Ideas And The Implications

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Spoiler

If Disney should make any sequals I rather have them make a Fantasia 3 then more Zootopia.

Who needs more Fantasia? Just cut in a new soundtrack to the previous ones. But Zootopia 2 is a thing that needs to happen.

People like you are the true heretics. Zootopia is just a glorifyed and plagiarised Dreamworks movie (Like Shrek level Dreamworks). None of that Disney Magic is in it.

This is Disney to me:




And if this is about Animals well:


Need I show more?

Zootopia and Modern Disney movies will never be as masterful as classic Disney Animation.

That would be a convincing argument, if the words 'They don't make them like they used to' hadn't been in continuous use since the second human made object was crafted.

And can you be more specific about which Dreamwork movie Zootopia is plagiarizing? Or is Shrek your actual example?

Didn't Judy only get a place in the police academy because of Affirmative Action the Lion mayor's Mammal Inclusion Initiative?

Yes, and those at the police academy didn't lift a finger to make it easier for her, as would be the case in real life had someone unqualified been pushed in through affirmative action.

I seem to remember a 5 minute montage showing that Judy was, actually, quite capable. One could argue it was ham fisted in delivery (What montage isn't), and poorly done, but it's there.

Characters like the fox and having expressions like this:

The Dreamworks stare:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/a/a9/Zootopia_Textless_Judy_Poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160216153316

Just seeing the rabbit have eyes like this, I know what kind of movie this is.

And I have seen enough of the trailers to know what kind of movie this is.

I just feel all children's animated movies these days are increadibly samey. Like Zootopia is perhaps going to teach me the same moral messages I have already seen before.

None of these children animation takes any risks. Oh whatever things you say about Zootopia doing something risky I watched even riskier animation like these:

Spoiler

A face. A face makes the entire movie plagiarism.

I can't even argue against that. It's just lunacy. It's like saying the Dresden Files have plagiarized Shakespeare because it had the audacity to be written in the same language.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Spoiler

If Disney should make any sequals I rather have them make a Fantasia 3 then more Zootopia.

Who needs more Fantasia? Just cut in a new soundtrack to the previous ones. But Zootopia 2 is a thing that needs to happen.

People like you are the true heretics. Zootopia is just a glorifyed and plagiarised Dreamworks movie (Like Shrek level Dreamworks). None of that Disney Magic is in it.

This is Disney to me:




And if this is about Animals well:


Need I show more?

Zootopia and Modern Disney movies will never be as masterful as classic Disney Animation.

That would be a convincing argument, if the words 'They don't make them like they used to' hadn't been in continuous use since the second human made object was crafted.

And can you be more specific about which Dreamwork movie Zootopia is plagiarizing? Or is Shrek your actual example?

Didn't Judy only get a place in the police academy because of Affirmative Action the Lion mayor's Mammal Inclusion Initiative?

Yes, and those at the police academy didn't lift a finger to make it easier for her, as would be the case in real life had someone unqualified been pushed in through affirmative action.

I seem to remember a 5 minute montage showing that Judy was, actually, quite capable. One could argue it was ham fisted in delivery (What montage isn't), and poorly done, but it's there.

Characters like the fox and having expressions like this:

The Dreamworks stare:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/a/a9/Zootopia_Textless_Judy_Poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160216153316

Just seeing the rabbit have eyes like this, I know what kind of movie this is.

And I have seen enough of the trailers to know what kind of movie this is.

I just feel all children's animated movies these days are increadibly samey. Like Zootopia is perhaps going to teach me the same moral messages I have already seen before.

None of these children animation takes any risks. Oh whatever things you say about Zootopia doing something risky I watched even riskier animation like these:

Spoiler

A face. A face makes the entire movie plagiarism.

I can't even argue against that. It's just lunacy. It's like saying the Dresden Files have plagiarized Shakespeare because it had the audacity to be written in the same language.

Discounting the plagirsm arguement which is just how I feel about it.

I still stand by that I just think Kid's Animation these days is very samey and needs to shake things up. I mean the things animation got away with back in the day is increadible.

And mabye this is the biggest issue for me because well.....I grew up. Oh yeah sure that's a silly arguement but there it is. I feel I am too old to watch movies like Zootopia. Its just not a movie for me anymore. I mean I certainly would not go see movies like How to train you dragon or The Good Dinosaur in theaters especially I will get looks from people.

Its partly the reason I wish there was more animation for adults, and I don't mean things like South Park or the worst of Adult Swim, but something genuine like Prince of Egypt.

 

[KissingSunlight]

It's not a stretch to say Zootopia is my favorite movie this year. I would like to see more sequels that explore Zootopia universe some more. The only caveat would be is to keep the social/political commentary subtle like they did in the first movie. I noticed people like to cherry pick certain parts of the movie that confirm their bias. I just took the movie as an exploration of the concept of tolerance.

 

[Penitent]

What kind of obtuse bait is this??

 

[Silvanus]

I've seen quite a few who genuinely are [...]

Against hard work? I can nearly guarantee that you haven't, and that this is a reductionist strawman of those who disagree with you. It's like me claiming that kindness is "anti-conservative". The implication is incredibly insulting.

[...] and more then enough who are pushing for equality of results who hold positions of power to not associate the idea with the ideology. While it's a "not all" situation, there is enough overlap I've seen between the two where it matters for the association to be made.

There really is no intention to find even the slightest middle ground, then. I'll keep that in mind the next time a topic comes up where some unity looks like it might come about.

I hate all that's good and pure in this world, as well, by the by.

 

[Dizchu]

I've seen quite a few who genuinely are, and more then enough who are pushing for equality of results who hold positions of power to not associate the idea with the ideology.

It's funny because the devaluing of hard work seems to me to be linked to conservatives more than anyone else. All these people insisting that people who work multiple jobs to support themselves don't deserve a living wage because they're not working in "the right jobs" (the kinds of jobs that become significantly easier to land if you were born into the right family or have the right connections).

While I won't go as far to say that conservatives are "against" hard work, it seems at least equally as plausible as this idea that liberals are "against" hard work.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I feel like this thread is getting off topic(if in fact there was a topic in the first place.). So lets all just go back to admitting that Zootopia is an amazing movie, one of the best Disney movies ever and in most of our top 5 movies of the year. I'll start.

Boy, Zootopia is an amazing movie. I think its one of Disney's best ever, and its certainly in my Top 5 movies of the year.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I seem to remember a 5 minute montage showing that Judy was, actually, quite capable. One could argue it was ham fisted in delivery (What montage isn't), and poorly done, but it's there.

I think Zontar's working under the impression that Affirnative Action is A) a quota system, B) that it regularly results in unqualified personnel getting hired, and C) that organizations will relax their standards to allow unqualified personnel with no real work ethic to stay employed or even be promoted over the actually qualified people. Naturally, this is actually sexist/racist/what-ever-ist.

Now, true, a lot of the time rules changes are made, but generally only when the standards being relaxed have minimal or no relation to the job at hand and are more a hold-over from when they mattered in the past. Like, the military isn't planning on walking across Europe carrying all their gear on their backs anymore, close-combat doctrine is about creating some distance between you and your opponent so you can shoot them more so than clubbing/slicing someone to death with your Trench shovel, etc. Naturally, changing these outdated rules is sexist/racist/what-ever-ist.

Of course, what Affirmative Action is based on is the idea that the demographics of your personnel and the demographics of your qualified applicant pool should be within a standard deviation of each other. Like, if you have 700 qualified white applicants and 300 qualified black applicants for a total of 100 positions, then, provided you're as unbiased as you claim, your new hires should be roughly 70 white people and 30 black people.

Now, most people understand that a lot of potential bias is unconscious. Almost nobody thinks of themselves as being intentionally racist, yet studies have shown that a resume with a stereotypically white name will get a significantly higher number of call-backs for jobs than the identical resume with a stereotypically black name. [footnote]https://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html[/footnote]. All Affirmative Action programs do is attemp to address this, i.e., all the Mammel Inclusion Initiative did was give Judy Hopps the chance at completing th Accademy, something she wouldn't have been able to even attempt before. Even then, although a valedictorian should get assigned to learn from the best at the first precinct, it still took direct intervention to actually get her there. A move which I'm sure would cause an outcry among the "diversity hire" group in that world, seeing as they wouldn't even get the montage and just see this singular, tiny, unaggressive non-herd animal pretending to play police at the expense of a clearly more qualified applicant.

Affirmative Action makes a convenient scapegoat for someone who thinks they're better than they actually are, hence "diversity hires" and "quota".

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I feel like this thread is getting off topic(if in fact there was a topic in the first place.). So lets all just go back to admitting that Zootopia is an amazing movie, one of the best Disney movies ever and in most of our top 5 movies of the year. I'll start.

Boy, Zootopia is an amazing movie. I think its one of Disney's best ever, and its certainly in my Top 5 movies of the year.

It derserves to hit the billion dollar benchmark, that's for sure. And that it's almost there despite not being a Summer Blockbuster or Star Whateverthehell is a testament to it's quality. If anything, I thought it was underrated.

 

[Dizchu]

I feel like this thread is getting off topic(if in fact there was a topic in the first place.). So lets all just go back to admitting that Zootopia is an amazing movie, one of the best Disney movies ever and in most of our top 5 movies of the year. I'll start.

Boy, Zootopia is an amazing movie. I think its one of Disney's best ever, and its certainly in my Top 5 movies of the year.

It really is a great film. Kinda feels like Disney's in the middle of a new renaissance (though let's please ignore Frozen).

It's smart, funny, excellently paced, has fantastic animation and creativity... the main flaws for me seem to be the story structure which is a tad cliche (I won't elaborate here because spoilers).

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I feel like this thread is getting off topic(if in fact there was a topic in the first place.). So lets all just go back to admitting that Zootopia is an amazing movie, one of the best Disney movies ever and in most of our top 5 movies of the year. I'll start.

Boy, Zootopia is an amazing movie. I think its one of Disney's best ever, and its certainly in my Top 5 movies of the year.

It derserves to hit the billion dollar benchmark, that's for sure. And that it's almost there despite not being a Summer Blockbuster or Star Whateverthehell is a testament to it's quality. If anything, I thought it was underrated.

I'm legitimately surprised by the lack of critical response. I mean some critics saw it, and just about everyone loves it, but YouTubers, MovieBob, AngryJoe, the Nostalgia Critic and the like haven't got bonkers over it. Which is simply strange.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

snip

You know, I might disagree on the cliche part. I mean yes, its a buddy cop movie, so at lot of it is just tropes and the like, but the main villain of the story wasn't who I saw coming. Maybe there were a few signs or something that I missed, but I just didn't make that connection until they show up towards the end.

Also calling it now, Nick is going to end up being a Private Investigator in some future movie. Maybe the Wilde-Hopps Detective Agency, as those two are clearly gonna get together(if they didn't already)

Also how the hell isn't there a Resident Evil 2 mod that changes Leon to Judy?! I mean come on! We need to contact Disney and have them make a Halloween short that's just a complete spoof of RE2. Judy's first day on the job and zombies happen.

 

[Chanticoblues]

I feel like this thread is getting off topic(if in fact there was a topic in the first place.). So lets all just go back to admitting that Zootopia is an amazing movie, one of the best Disney movies ever and in most of our top 5 movies of the year. I'll start.

Boy, Zootopia is an amazing movie. I think its one of Disney's best ever, and its certainly in my Top 5 movies of the year.

I've seen 6 movies released in 2016, and none are in my top 10 of the year haha. I think I've mentioned to you that I haven't seen it yet, but I would be surprised if it was a top 10 contender for me, personally. I still look forward to it though!

 

[SweetShark]

This is stupid at face value I know, but realistically over the next few centuries if the Zootopia franchise managed to stay alive I really do think something like this could happen. (There is a slight 0.0001 possibility I bet.) If nothing else please discuss the implications of this idea for the next 9 movies in the Zootopia franchise as I feel something constructive could be done with these movie ideas.

Zootopia: Movie about different species getting along teaching all races are equal.

Zootopia 2: Movie about different species loving each other teaching interracial marriage is okay.

Zootopia 3: Movie about animals and robots getting along teaching animals and robots are equal.

Zootopia 4: Movie about animals and robots loving each other teaching robosexual marraige is okay.

Zootopia 5: Movie about animals/robots and aliens getting along teaching all beings are equal.

Zootopia 6: Movie about animals/robots and aliens loving each other teaching interplanetary marriage is okay.

Zootopia 7: Movie about animals/robots/aliens and spirits from other dimensions getting along teaching all entities are equal.

Zootopia 8: Movie about animals/robots/aliens and spirits from other dimensions loving each other teaching interdimensional marriage is okay.

Zootopia 9: Movie about animals/robots/aliens/dimensional spirits and literally God getting along teaching all is equal.

Zootopia 10: Movie about animals/robots/aliens/dimensional spirits and literally God loving each other teaching godsexuality is okay.

Let's just see a sequel which have other kind of animal like insects, snakes, fishes, birds, etc, then we talk about robots/aliens/ghosts/gods.

Btw
Zootopia Zero: Humanoid Apes do experiment to other animals to make them also intelligent like themselves. However the Apes by mistake also created a virus which killed them all. Only the new humanoid intelligent animals survived.

 

[Dizchu]

You know, I might disagree on the cliche part. I mean yes, its a buddy cop movie, so at lot of it is just tropes and the like, but the main villain of the story wasn't who I saw coming. Maybe there were a few signs or something that I missed, but I just didn't make that connection until they show up towards the end.

I wouldn't call the film "cliche", it does subvert a lot of expectations and the source of a lot of its humour is actually its self-awareness and reversal of certain tropes.

But...

Spoiler: Okay spoilers here

The structure of the film... the main character upsets their friend due to some misunderstanding and they have to reconcile before the finale... that is such a tired formula. I actually would have preferred it if Judy were forced into exile due to her actions, the predators despising her for what she did and then Nick, who was established to be the cynical "realist" goes against his lifelong prejudices to come to Judy's aid, encouraging her to make things right. Throughout the film Judy was characterised as being determined and stubborn while Nick was characterised as being sarcastic and defeatist, I think it would have been great if their roles were reversed and Nick encouraged her to be herself after berating her throughout much of the film.

 

[Zontar]

Against hard work?

As surprising as it may be, yes to exactly that. That's the thing about living here in Quebec, we have a very large number of people who are lazy, have an undue sense of entitlement, and will riot in the streets if you so much as have tuition fees rise at the same rate as inflation (while most of North America has seen higher education costs sky-rocket, we have seen them cut by half since 1980, with the full burden being on the shoulders of tax payers). I don't know what it's like in other parts of the English speaking world in this regard, but here in Quebec it is not inaccurate to state that those who are self proclaimed progressives also want a hard day's work pay for an easy morning's work. It wouldn't be so bad if all their entitlement programs didn't come at the cost of the hard earned taxpayer dollars from the rest of us.

If you've ever seen what the student rioters or labour unions demand every other year (that's how often we have a major labour riot despite having the best labour right and wages in North America, as well as having by far the cheapest higher education) you'd probably understand why I associate progressivism with laziness. Out here that's the reality on the ground, and why even Red Tories use the term "4 hour work week" to describe the goals of many of the far left.

It's funny because the devaluing of hard work seems to me to be linked to conservatives more than anyone else.

When work is overvalued then of course conservatives will be the ones to devalue it. As it stands there's already problems with jobs that are overpaid (perfect example being virtually any public sector or union job). Hell, then there's the issue itself that raising minimum wage decreases youth employment [http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840] due to the labour not being worth the cost, but then when it comes to full time work it's a moot point because only 1.1% of adults working a 40 hour work week are making minimum wage anyway. The problem seems much larger because it isn't wages that are the problem but a lack of money management skills. Which is the same reason 70% of lottery winners end up blowing it all within a few years.

I think Zontar's working under the impression that Affirnative Action is A) a quota system, B) that it regularly results in unqualified personnel getting hired, and C) that organizations will relax their standards to allow unqualified personnel with no real work ethic to stay employed or even be promoted over the actually qualified people. Naturally, this is actually sexist/racist/what-ever-ist.

It's actually not sexist/racist/what-ever-ist, and to imply otherwise is quite frankly an insult. While affirmative action is not the same as a quota system (and anyone advocating for a quota system who isn't also advocating differing standards based on race and/or sex would be the first I've ever seen), your second and third points on what you think I believe are what I've observed. Not believed, observed.

Now of course one could always say "well Zontar, you live in socialist Quebec, you can't apply that to the rest of the world". And to that I say I don't care. It's a problem here and not a small one either, so I'll complain about it all I want. Plus it's not an isolated problem either, as another socialist nation is actively putting people's lives at risk due to such policies.


Thankfully it's not that bad here, we have the sense to have this nonsense not go so far as to put lives on the line.

 

[Dizchu]

Spoiler: Politics stuff

When work is overvalued then of course conservatives will be the ones to devalue it. As it stands there's already problems with jobs that are overpaid (perfect example being virtually any public sector or union job).

Yes there are problems with jobs that are overpaid, but funnily enough you seem to be ignoring the CEOs who literally make millions (sometimes billions) of dollars. But of course, they're not going to see a problem with their jobs being overpaid because they are the ones that are getting paid.

It wouldn't even be so bad if they actually spent their money, but they don't. They hoard it. To you that may sound like good management of money but when your wealth is so impossibly vast that's irresponsible behaviour, because money is a finite resource. If the money doesn't flow around the economy it will inevitably pile up in the bank accounts of the richest individuals and drain out of the accounts of the poorest.

This is exacerbated when the poor are forced to save their money out of necessity, resulting in even less money being circulated.

Hell, then there's the issue itself that raising minimum wage decreases youth employment [http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203440104574402820278669840] due to the labour not being worth the cost, but then when it comes to full time work it's a moot point because only 1.1% of adults working a 40 hour work week are making minimum wage anyway.

Thanks for proving my point, you know why unemployment goes up when the minimum wage increases? Because the employers don't value work. Of course not all employers are like this, Wales' largest car insurance company Admiral saw a huge surge in profits last year. You know what they did? They gave every single employee a 3,600 pound bonus. And you know what else? They have a great reputation among the public. There is no doubt that their respect of their own employees makes them an attractive company for clients.

Oh, and that point about "only 1.1% of adults working a 40 hour a week job make minimum wage". Yeah, a 40 hour a week job which is full-time employment. Depending on where you live landing full-time employment can range from straightforward to difficult to almost impossible. Which is why many are forced to work several part-time jobs. If those part-time jobs pay minimum wage and they add up to the equivalent of full-time employment, that's still minimum wage.

The problem seems much larger because it isn't wages that are the problem but a lack of money management skills. Which is the same reason 70% of lottery winners end up blowing it all within a few years.

Absolutely, money management skills are indeed the problem. Only it's not the skills of the poor that's to blame but the skills of the rich, however they are never brought into question because they can either afford to make dumb decisions and recover from them (Donald Trump for example) or they hoard their money, which for poor people is considered a wise financial decision but for the rich it is an extremely detrimental attitude. Not to mention that without their employees, employers would have absolutely nothing.

Sorry about that. Yes, Zootopia. It's great. Gotta love that sloth scene.

 

[Zontar]

Yes there are problems with jobs that are overpaid, but funnily enough you seem to be ignoring the CEOs who literally make millions (sometimes billions) of dollars. But of course, they're not going to see a problem with their jobs being overpaid because they are the ones that are getting paid.

I never made a claim one way or the other about overpaid CEOs. Though here in Quebec most only work in the province but officially reside elsewhere due to how high taxes are on all tax brackets. It's not even an upper class thing though, quite a few people who live right on the Ontarian border work in Montreal.

Thanks for proving my point, you know why unemployment goes up when the minimum wage increases? Because the employers don't value work.

Is it any surprise that when someone is being paid 15$ an hour to make something that's worth 13$ they'd have their job cut? Here's the thing, the vast majority of work in the economy doesn't come from the massive corporations that car afford to give every single employee a decent bonus at the end of the fiscal year, most are small or middle sized businesses where even minor alterations to regulations can mean the difference between staffing 500 people, staffing 100 people, or closing all together.

Oh, and that point about "only 1.1% of adults working a 40 hour week make minimum wage". Yeah, a 40 hour a week job which is full-time employment. Depending on where you live landing full-time employment can range from straightforward to difficult to almost impossible.

Well that can't exactly be helped by raising the minimum wage for the exact reason state before. Most minimum wage work isn't worth much more then the wage being offered, and the mechanization of work is making the end of many lines of work inevitable. My own section in the factory I work at has had a 75% reduction in workforce over the past 15 years because it became cheaper to have a machine do the work instead of those people.

Also, if finding a full time job is so hard, why does the US have over 3 million unskilled full time job openings right now? The reason is because in many places it's not worth the effort to do those jobs because in 35 states wellfare is worth more then a job [http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/02/on-labor-day-2013-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-work-in-35-states/#22d9995b279d].

Not to mention that without their employees, employers would have absolutely nothing.

People who say this tend to forget that it works both ways, and that the employees wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for that employer, who often isn't actually the one making the real money (it's actually remarkably rare for a CEO to also be the owner these days unless they where the one to found the corporation in question).

And you are right about one thing, the money management skills of many who are up there is a real problem. Just like it's a crisis for those in the lower and middle class. It's a society wide problem that goes well beyond socio-economic class.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

Spoiler: Plot stuff

You know, I could see that but I'm not entirely sure it needs it. I like that Nick has some form of PTSD from being muzzled as a kit. I mean who wouldn't? And I think it was a clever little twist that after Nick stands up for Judy to Bogo, and tells her 'Never let them see they get to you' it turns out Judy is the one that gets to him the most with her 'biological cause' theory. He confides in her, believes in her, trusts her and for the first time in years believes in himself and she panics during the press conference and boom. Devastated. And my head canon is he spent those months drinking and coning mercilessly before Judy does her whole apology thing. It may be formulaic, but they handled it well. Judy and Nick being such vivid characters really made the muzzled scenes pop. Tens bucks says in the sequel Nick gets muzzled and Judy flips her shit on the main badguy.

SNIP

Zootopia is the type of movie that you either love, or you're wrong and need to be smacked with a dead tuna. If it doesn't make the years top 10, I guess we can let that slide, but you still have to love it to avoid any...fishy situations.