Protagonists You Can't Get Behind

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KazeAizen

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I'm gonna say it but I really really really can't get behind Luffy. Like I like pretty much everything about One Piece except for him, Chopper, and Usopp. I know its supposed to be wonder of adventure and a child's innocence and all that stuff. I get that. I really do. Its about the journey, but he is just so annoying. Having pretty much the same mental state and mannerisms at 17 that he had when he was 7 is terrible. I mean it is possible to grow a brainless character up and still have that fun loving part under neath them. Those traits that made them them in the beginning. Goku and Naruto are the best examples I've seen of this. Even as shitty as Bleach's writing is these days (I read it, like it, but even I have to admit the writing has gone to hell) I can get behind Ichigo. I like Ichigo and he sure as hell is not the same character Rukia found in episode 1. Also the reason I can't get behind Chopper or Usopp is that after the time skip, when they all got hella strong those two acted way too damn scared still. Like I know its a new world and stuff but there are somethings that should just not scare you when you get super powered over the course of two years.
 

Thyunda

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CardinalPiggles said:
Han Solo.

His character arc is so fucking shallow and obvious that it just pisses me off every time I hear him say something like "sorry doll, I'm only in it for the money".

And it's just feels like when he comes back into a fight he's doing it for the rush and the glory, not the right reasons. And everyone around just wants to kiss his arse.

"Oh please Han Solo, we really need a greedy full of himself space pirate to help save the galaxy from the evil empire"
It's funny, because I like Han Solo for the exact reasons you despise him. I enjoy the idea that he does things for the rush and for the money - that, I can relate to. It also makes the character a thousand times more admirable in that they acknowledge the danger they're in.

Straying away from Solo and looking more at the mercenary character as an archetype - those that come rushing in, risking their own lives and challenging the Invincible Villain simply because they like the challenge or because they reckon there's a big treasure chest at the end, are so much more fun to watch than the typical Reluctant Hero, who is chosen by Fate and therefore cannot lose. And when do you see a Mercenary character have a breakdown moment? Never, that's when. They're either there, or they're not, and if they're there for the challenge or the thrill, they're probably not going to sit outside and cry for half the fight before realising they need to man up.

Fortunately for my temper, I tend to avoid anything which hints at an irritating protagonist, but I did have to force myself through Ashes To Ashes, because that fucking woman infuriated me. Sam Tyler may have had a couple of breakdowns, but after his initial panic, he played the fucking game. He acknowledged the world around him, and he decided to behave like a normal fucking person.
Not Officer Sanctimonious, though. She just had to be a prissy little shit about it. Every five goddamn minutes it was "NONE OF THIS IS REAL!" and then it's "Sam Tyler had a tense relationship with Gene Hunt so I must have too!" And then the whole thing became a giant fuck and I'm pretty sure that was her plan all along.
 

cojo965

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TizzytheTormentor said:
cojo965 said:
Persona 3's main protagonist does something I didn't think possible, he/she manages to drag the rest of the cast down with him/her.
[user]The Wykydtron[/user] is that you?

I find it somewhat odd that you can garner such hate towards a character who never speaks a solid line of dialogue (outside of what you chose for him to say) and is absolutely adored and worshipped by everyone around him, for the P3 main character, I don't see how he drags anyone down by leading the group with little to no complaints from his peers and seniors.
The movie series also shows that he was traumatized by his parents deaths (he was like 10 at the time) so I think him lacking a "FRIENDSHIP IS AWESOME" attitude is understandable.

[sub][sub]Come at me Wykydtron![/sub][/sub]

OT: Patroklos from Soul Calibur V, I know the story was appallingly bad already, but giving us a "hero" who gleefully murders people under the orders of an obviously evil character makes him unsympathetic and his redemption really doesn't work because of it, not only because he is a kill crazy bastard, but also a hot-headed dumbass.
Like I said, Persona 3's protagonist bugs me on a personal level for the reason of his/her relations with the opposite gender. Having personally seen what cheating can do to someone on the receiving end I have had issues with characters that bed more than one person at a time, so there's that. Then there is how no one seems to notice and now you lost me.
 

Dragonlayer

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Witty Name Here said:
Any vampire in any vampire movie/book/anything that has the gall to demand tolerance while murdering humans by the boat load. A la True Blood. Really, it takes a a lot to get me to root for people other than humans in most works and when a vampire's only claim to morality is that they're "hot" than I'm more than willing to whip out a few pitch forks and torches.

Also any objectivist character such as in Atlas Shrugged or The Sword of Truth. Mostly because they're horrible people with a morality so backwards that it's honestly shocking to see just what they do. An especially hilarious moment was in the Sword of Truth where the main character slaughters "evil" pacifists en masse and kicks a child so hard he breaks her jaw just for giving him lip. Also Atlas Shrugged justifying the deaths of several train cars full of people for the "evil" act of what is essentially "thought crime".

And this last one is probably going to earn me some serious hatred considering how much what... "fanbase" is like but...

The Horde from World of Warcraft. Essentially monsters that wage wars of genocide against the civilized races of the Alliance. Yet they have an underdog complex bigger than the moon and scream that the Alliance are "racist imperial pigs". To give you an idea, it's like a bunch of aliens came to the planet, they slaughtered cities full of people and gleefully butchered others by the millions. Humanity is forced to work together to overcome this threat and, through grit and heroism, wins the day... and then they found out that the aliens started spawning on the planet and building homes over the ashes of their loved ones.

For whatever reason Humanity decides not to destroy the alien threat and, instead, puts them in prison camps. All is fine and well until the aliens scream it's time to "throw off human oppression" and decry humans as "the real monsters". They wage another war to free themselves then "make peace" by essentially demanding humanity cede more land to them, or else. Humanity doesn't, so the aliens move to antartica all the while claiming to be "peaceful" and, all the while, raiding other countries for resources.

Yet in spite of ALL that, people still claim the horde are the underdogs. It's mindblowing that they accuse the Alliance of being Racists when there's no evidence in lore or in game that that's even remotely true. Sadly, The Horde is the golden boy of Blizzard, so the past two expacs have been about their story at the Alliance's expense.
I've never watched True Blood but from what I've read/heard about it, the vampires are "good" because they're sexy and the anti-vampire humans are framed as fundementalist religious nutjobs ("GOD HATES FANGS" real fucking subtle True Blood). Because obviously you'd have to be a big intolerant whacko to hate creatures that murder people for sustenance. And tying into your WOW point, I despite works where they try to portray inhuman creatures that slaughter humans regularly as merely misunderstood victims of racism - basically anything where nature is sentient gets this treatment.

To be more specific for the OP, I made the mistake of reading the storyline for the Amnesia: The Dark Descent expansion (I think it's called Justine) ahead of completing the game. Essentially, the game asks you to play as a cruel and extremely manipulative female aristocrat who starts conducting horrific torture experiments on her various lovers and anyone who might expose her designs as a fucking pasttime! Then, even if you secure the good ending of "redeeming" yourself (redemption in this case meaning escaping your own dungeons and leaving the prisoners trapped into their agony engines with no intention of telling anyone they're down there), you get off goddamn scott-free! Say what you will about Daniel, at least he only started torturing people because he was driven to desperate madness trying to escape the Shadow *and* is so remorseful he tried to destroy his own memory: Justine was just bored! Needless to say, I stopped playing the expansion there and then.
 

JimB

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Anyone from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I can't stand any of those assholes, and just want them to all die. I don't know why I hate them so specifically for being assholes, because there are other fictional programs about assholes that I can totally get behind (Archer comes directly to mind), but I have too much contempt for the gang to even enjoy the show.

Johnny Novgorod said:
Kratos. I hate everything he does and represents.
Seriously, fuck that guy.
 

The Wykydtron

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TizzytheTormentor said:
cojo965 said:
Like I said, Persona 3's protagonist bugs me on a personal level for the reason of his/her relations with the opposite gender. Having personally seen what cheating can do to someone on the receiving end I have had issues with characters that bed more than one person at a time, so there's that. Then there is how no one seems to notice and now you lost me.
To be fair, Persona 4's protag can do that (although unlike P3, dating isn't forced) I'd consider it more awkward game design than an actual character flaw. Hell, I remember accidentally having 2 lovers in Persona 4, all I did was hug Rise when she was crying you damn game! Don't make me two time Naoto!

The Wykydtron said:
Yeeeeeeee boooiiii! I knew other people would would get it eventually. The fact that everyone worships him is one of the contributing factors (alongside everyone else in the game ofc) even. I feel like he's pulling the World's Best Con Artist routine, and nobody picked up on it.

If the the film makes him better then I will have to see it. I don't want to hate him after all, I just found everything he did to be either insincere or a total dick move. Which is a total shame because every other character is great.
Lets not forget, this is a SMT protag, no emotion, all charismatic bad-ass (see every SMT protag to date for reference) Now that the series is popular, they have to add some personality into the movies to make up for his silent protag status.

I remember Patroklos, I never played the game because I can't do 3D fighters but he looked so broken in his character and he sort of had fun moves so I probably would have played him for lols. I think I remember him having Yosuke's voice actor too so that's another plus, also proving that voice actors really have no say over what work they get. Persona 4 a masterpiece of a story and then SCV, which is total dross.
He is actually fun to play as (despite him and Pyrrah basically being replacements for Cassandra and Sophitia) but god-damn is he annoying, the story really makes you wonder how the guy manages to breath. The story is total dross? That is too kind for what we got...

Also, is it just me or does Yuri Lowenthal have just one voice for every role he has (not that I blame him, considering who he gets stuck voicing)
I thought so, I would play Patro online just to win with the dickbag character nobody likes. I would add a comparison but there's nothing so retarded in BlazBlue or Marvel. I mean you could win with Hazama but that's canon 99% of the time and Mu-12 is too adorable. Yes i'm adding him to the bad guy side.

Sounds about right. Why are you voicing a background character that dies in two seconds in Gears 3 Yosuke? I usually have to look up a voice actor but I instantly know Yuri Lowenthal within the first line of dialogue. He did Luka in Bayonetta too which I liked.

I can identify JYB quickly too, I watched Code Geass too many times cuz his Lelouch is brilliant. He needs to play the anti-hero or villain characters more often. He's freaking good at it.

"But now this incredible power... it's mine? Well then."

*ends episode*

Sold!
 

Avalanche91

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Kirito from Sword Art Online. Seriously, screw this self-insert author wish-fullfilment character. There is a limit to how hypercapable a character can be, before you stop caring. Even Batman and Superman get beat up from time to time.

And Kratos from God of War. Seriously man, WTH.
 

Alcarohtare

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Yuna from FFX
She annoyed the hell out of me. I get that she is meant to represent innocence and stuff but my god! Would it have killed her to be a bit more fiesty? Even later on in the game she comes off as a total wuss (other than the scene in Bevelle) despite the fact she is a summoner and has major power...

Also Tidus because he is a bit whiny (redeems himself a bit tho)
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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Witty Name Here said:
And this last one is probably going to earn me some serious hatred considering how much what... "fanbase" is like but...

The Horde from World of Warcraft. Essentially monsters that wage wars of genocide against the civilized races of the Alliance. Yet they have an underdog complex bigger than the moon and scream that the Alliance are "racist imperial pigs". To give you an idea, it's like a bunch of aliens came to the planet, they slaughtered cities full of people and gleefully butchered others by the millions. Humanity is forced to work together to overcome this threat and, through grit and heroism, wins the day... and then they found out that the aliens started spawning on the planet and building homes over the ashes of their loved ones.

For whatever reason Humanity decides not to destroy the alien threat and, instead, puts them in prison camps. All is fine and well until the aliens scream it's time to "throw off human oppression" and decry humans as "the real monsters". They wage another war to free themselves then "make peace" by essentially demanding humanity cede more land to them, or else. Humanity doesn't, so the aliens move to antartica all the while claiming to be "peaceful" and, all the while, raiding other countries for resources.

Yet in spite of ALL that, people still claim the horde are the underdogs. It's mindblowing that they accuse the Alliance of being Racists when there's no evidence in lore or in game that that's even remotely true. Sadly, The Horde is the golden boy of Blizzard, so the past two expacs have been about their story at the Alliance's expense.
Witty Name Here said:
Heh, not sure if you follow WoW or not, but it's only gotten worse with time. The Orcs waged another war of genocide, destroying an entire city and conquering several zones. After defeating their warchief...

...The Alliance lets them off with a warning and essentially cedes territory to them (the Night Elves will no longer be fighting to control Azshara) while letting the Horde keep everything they stole.

Yet in spite of all that, people still think of the Horde as "underdogs" and accuse the Alliance of racism for... some unspecified reason. Oh, and the Alliance hero Khadgar is going neutral again... and after her brief dip into bloodthirstiness it looks like Jaina is going neutral too... it's just... tiring.
The horde player here, let's do this

yes the horde are assholes a lot of the time but reading they just pissed me off.

first I've play the game. The horde are not shown as underdogs in the war in wow, they're are shown in gray as are the Alliance (in wow at least)

Secondly the orcs "or alien as you call them" are only shown as being victims of racism when they were in camps with no Rights what so ever(and don't say they were all orcs who fight in the second war so they deserve it , a lot of them we're born in camps like thrall)but most of the time they are shown as asshole like in Mop.

thirdly I also love how you think horde are just orcs. The tauren have done nothing to the Alliance but they are targeted the most out of all of them because they are weaken or the time the darkspear troll were attack in Warcraft 3 for doing nothing by humans, or how the blood elves where thrown under the bus by the Alliance.

I'm not saying the horde are the good guys and i understand the horde have been getting to much focus in wow compared to the Alliance lately. I understand how you fell about getting the shaft but don't take it out on us, my main is an orc arms warrior, i'm for the horde, and i'm sorry if you find this post a little mean I just got offend by your post.

ps. sorry if they're spelling error I'm not good at this long post.
 

Halla Burrica

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Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion. I have a feeling we aren't supposed to like him neccesarily, but Hideaki Anno could at least make him a character we WANT to follow. It's far from impossible to create a very flawed yet compelling character, just look at Walter White from Breaking Bad or Guts from Berserk.
I think he could have been just that, if he would just get over himself. Yes, I get that he's socially inept, lonely and constantly faces terrifying odds, I could get behind that, in fact I did for the first half of the series. He was a wuss, but he would work nonetheless and keep going because he knew there were people around him and that the battle was about more than just him. But then for the second half of the series, he just retires into his own little world, completely neglecting the people around him and the world that's suffering because suddenly he's more important than all those people (that COULD have been okay, we all have flaws and get caught up in our own world from time to time, the problem is that Shinji STAYS there for nearly the rest of the series, and has little intention of ever trying to pull his head out of his ass and taking a look at the rest of the landscape).
The Evangelion itself isn't doing him any favors either. One of main problems with NGE is that on paper, all the ideas and the stories are great. In execution, it leaves a lot to be desired. Shinji is the best example of that. The first time we get to go inside his head and understand him better, it's awesome. The five or six more times, not so much. I get it, he has problems, can we please move on? It gets particularly obnoxious in episode 25 and 26 when the budget goes to hell and we get 40+ minutes of Shinji and Asuka screaming their heads off about their problems to the camera before getting a huge lecture on existensialism or whatever else Anno had on his mind, done as unconvincingly as humanly possible (a good dose of "Show, don't tell" could really have benefitted the series).
 

CardinalPiggles

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Thyunda said:
CardinalPiggles said:
Han Solo.

His character arc is so fucking shallow and obvious that it just pisses me off every time I hear him say something like "sorry doll, I'm only in it for the money".

And it's just feels like when he comes back into a fight he's doing it for the rush and the glory, not the right reasons. And everyone around just wants to kiss his arse.

"Oh please Han Solo, we really need a greedy full of himself space pirate to help save the galaxy from the evil empire"
It's funny, because I like Han Solo for the exact reasons you despise him. I enjoy the idea that he does things for the rush and for the money - that, I can relate to. It also makes the character a thousand times more admirable in that they acknowledge the danger they're in.

Straying away from Solo and looking more at the mercenary character as an archetype - those that come rushing in, risking their own lives and challenging the Invincible Villain simply because they like the challenge or because they reckon there's a big treasure chest at the end, are so much more fun to watch than the typical Reluctant Hero, who is chosen by Fate and therefore cannot lose. And when do you see a Mercenary character have a breakdown moment? Never, that's when. They're either there, or they're not, and if they're there for the challenge or the thrill, they're probably not going to sit outside and cry for half the fight before realising they need to man up.

Snip
I realise that my opinion won't be a very popular one, especially around here, everyone seems to worship the original trilogy and the three protagonists (I like the other two, just not Solo). I just wanted to get that off my chest.

I guess I just like already admirable people becoming the hero. Not smarmy dickheads that just want money (maybe power) and women. It's much less of a development arc but usually (I hope) they will focus on other character development instead.
 

CardinalPiggles

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Alcarohtare said:
Yuna from FFX
She annoyed the hell out of me. I get that she is meant to represent innocence and stuff but my god! Would it have killed her to be a bit more fiesty? Even later on in the game she comes off as a total wuss (other than the scene in Bevelle) despite the fact she is a summoner and has major power...

Also Tidus because he is a bit whiny (redeems himself a bit tho)
Shes does grow a pair as it were after the events in Bevelle. I'm playing it right now myself and just passed Bevelle. When the group tries to pass through Mt. Gagazet a main focus is just how strong willed she's become, and then again when they face Lady Yunalesca.

But yeah Tidus is a bit whiny, I don't think you could really argue that. The frustrating thing is he's sometimes narrating, and the voice he uses there is perfectly normal.
 

Varrdy

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Trevor Philips, GTA V.

Aside from being a total psycho, the guy is a massive turd! He bangs on about being wrong, betrayed, the only "real" person in San Andreas blah, blah, blah but the reality is that he fucks up people's lives and guilt-trips or threatens anyone who objects; he claims to be loyal and yet happily mistreats, bullies and abandons people who he dragged along with him and yet if they don't toe the line or question him, he gets all hormonal about them not being good friends or accuses them of not willing to stand by him in tough times.

Michael and Franklin are not much cop either but they acknowledge their own flaws whereas Trevor considers himself better than pretty much everyone he meets.
 

Samael Barghest

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Lightning from FFXIII. She spent the first half of the game whinning and murdering innocents. Then become the leader of the group (somehow) and she was literally the same person. Am unlikeable brick that wouldn't stop killing.
 

AuronFtw

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CardinalPiggles said:
Alcarohtare said:
Yuna from FFX
She annoyed the hell out of me. I get that she is meant to represent innocence and stuff but my god! Would it have killed her to be a bit more fiesty? Even later on in the game she comes off as a total wuss (other than the scene in Bevelle) despite the fact she is a summoner and has major power...

Also Tidus because he is a bit whiny (redeems himself a bit tho)
Shes does grow a pair as it were after the events in Bevelle. I'm playing it right now myself and just passed Bevelle. When the group tries to pass through Mt. Gagazet a main focus is just how strong willed she's become, and then again when they face Lady Yunalesca.

But yeah Tidus is a bit whiny, I don't think you could really argue that. The frustrating thing is he's sometimes narrating, and the voice he uses there is perfectly normal.
One of the biggest problems with that game is the voice acting tbh. Both Yuna and Tidus completely phone it in the entire game, even though other characters in the main party have great VAs (not to mention some minor characters like Jecht being well cast). Yuna stumblefucking around muttering constantly and Tidus sounding obnoxiously teenager, even after his story arc should have "matured" him, was just distracting. Honestly think the game would have been better with no voices at all.
 

Tsukuyomi

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Zhukov said:
Been reading Dune recently.

Gotta say, the main character, Paul, is so bloody capable that I find it damn near impossible to give a shit about him.

He's super-duper smart, highly trained in the ways of basically everything. has perfect observation and perfect memory, can figure out almost anything at a glance, can learn any skill super quickly, can read people so well that he can almost read their minds, can kinda-sorta make people do what he says just by commanding them to. Oh, and of course he's physically adept at pretty much anything he tries his hand at.

Oh, and I almost forgot that he's also The Chosen One As Foretold by Prophesy And Legend. Although I'm pretty sure the author's going to try and pull something cute with that.

But yeah, makes it pretty hard to sympathise or fell any kind of tension. Even when the plot is getting all "Ohhhhh! Treachery! Drama! Danger!" all I can think is, "Eh, whatever, fucking Wunderkind here will have it under control in no time."
I enjoyed Dune very much, though I never thought of Paul like this. It's very true, though. Then again I kinda figured damn near everyone in the main cast was superhuman, with perhaps the exception of Gurney, but then again it's Gurney and he's such a lovable bastard that you can't fault him for it. Plus his memory is kinda superhuman in and of itself so I guess even he qualifies.

My personal vote is tied between Eren Jaeger and Batman. For similar, yet opposing, reasons. For Eren, I just...YOUR RAGE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING! Get some goddamn BRAIN CELLS! When he's a kid and seeing what happens to his mom, yes. I get where the only thing he might be able to muster up is rage/revenge. He's a kid, he's impulsive, and he may not be able to grasp the overwhelming magnitude of the forces against him or the task he's swearing himself to. But to become older, a teenager, and to have had NO perspective on the matter and still come to the same conclusion? Bullshit. It's flat-out stated he has NO talent in his training aside from his level of stubbornness. Okay, it's admirable you have drive that surpasses 99% of people around you. But you have NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR YOU OTHER THAN THAT. No money, no natural aptitude for physical or mental skills that compliment the goal, nothing.

Sometimes, despite how badly people may want something, they are simply unable to achieve it with the tools they have. I feel like that's the lesson we SHOULD have learned from Eren. What happened to him early on should have been permanent and should have shown his cast-mates that there's more to fighting Titans than having the courage and a lack of rational thought. Literally the ONLY reason he's alive at this point I'd imagine is because he has more suits of Plot Armor than Tony Stark has Iron Man suits.

On the flip side, we have the Bat. Now, he's not awful. Really isn't. But I just...I can't get behind him much anymore. Like he's still cool to watch and everything, but if anything he's TOO capable. Answers for EVERYTHING may be his thing, but that means he can't lose, and unlike Superman, you can't inject a personal loss or hurting him in a way that ISN'T physical. For Superman there's a weight to doing that since physically he's invulnerable and outwardly he's perfect and godly, and loss does not seem to happen to him a lot. He doesn't build his entire life on a loss like Batman does. Things like Last Son and All-Star Superman and Red Son and Kingdom Come have weight because in one way or another they reach past Superman's invulnerable perfection and strike something in him that we tend to forget exists because of his physical exploits.

Batman....you can kill a member of the family, but what does that do? Gives him more things to brood on. You can replace Robin, but what does that do? Gives him an excuse to go through the same path of parenting as he's done three times before. To me, nothing has weight for him. Nothing seems to genuinely shake up his world or the character himself. He's prepared for everything, nothing seems to show us sides of his personality that we've never seen, or if they do it's not for long until we're back to him teaching a master's class on Cave Brooding.

All that would even be excusable if it didn't get the fans in such a bloody tizzy. "OMG BATMAN CAN BEAT ANYONE!" Bane crushed his back so badly he had to call in a sub. "BUT HE CAME BACK!" Probably because readers hated Azreal, did you think of that? "BUT HE BEAT SUPERMAN AND HE DOESN'T HAVE POWERS!" It's not difficult when you have Kryptonite and realize that Clark probably hasn't exactly put in the time, effort, and intensive training that Bruce has. When one side probably knows a dozen different martial arts and the other's typical strategy goes along the lines of "punch it, if it's still punching back, punch harder. Also try not to hurt civilians," I'm not gonna be too surprised when the one who's had formal combat training wins.

Both have amazing drive and determination in their endeavors, but one needs to get rid of the Plot Armor and understand that guts alone doesn't cut it in heavy traffic, while the other just feels like there's nothing you can DO with him that has any weight to it anymore. (and his fans drive me nuts.)
 

TheMigrantSoldier

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Yeah, I dislike Minato from Persona 3. A lot of the times he involves himself in other lives, it feels wooden and out of character. He remains quiet and distant for most of the game. It gives off an impression that Minato doesn't really care much for those he makes bonds with, only their social links. At least P4's protagonist can become more upfront and casual in his dialogue.

Seeing as some were talking about Warcraft's Horde, I'll be specific. Thrall from WoW. He is, for all intents and purposes, the leading character in series. I liked him in Warcraft 3 for being a good character and near-perfect warchief, at least compared to the rest of the bunch. He was pragmatic, idealistic, driven and compassionate, which was something unseen of Orcs prior to WC3. At the same time, he was a surprisingly "human" character. Heck, I even liked him when he was lamer in WoW because the game acknowledged that.

All of his shortcomings and flaws came to bite him back, like in the Undercity. Enter expansions after Wrath and it's gotten much worse. He appointed his rival and virtual opposite as leader of half the world, pretty much ruining most progress towards peace. Now, flaws are flaws, right? No matter what, no one calls him out on it except for Jaina and Tyrande, because only real crazy people would disagree with his and Malfurion's awesomeness (see Leyara). The rest of the Horde bows to him despite all he's screwed up by putting the Hellscream brat on the throne. He got a good deal out of the entire war and the trial. A family and the world's respect. And now we're supposed to follow him on his quest of self-discovery in Draenor.

I like to think that Thrall died in Wrath of the Lich King and we're stuck with Go'el.
 

Thyunda

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CardinalPiggles said:
I'm not really a Star Wars fan. If asked which trilogy I prefer, I reply 'sex'. No, I'm joking, but I don't actually have a preference. The first prequel was awful, the second made no sense, and I enjoyed the third. Of the originals, I liked the first and the other two bored me shitless.

We just have different versions of what makes a character 'admirable', that's all. You like characters who fight for a cause, I like characters who don't hide behind one.
 

happyninja42

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Zhukov said:
Been reading Dune recently.

Gotta say, the main character, Paul, is so bloody capable that I find it damn near impossible to give a shit about him.

He's super-duper smart, highly trained in the ways of basically everything. has perfect observation and perfect memory, can figure out almost anything at a glance, can learn any skill super quickly, can read people so well that he can almost read their minds, can kinda-sorta make people do what he says just by commanding them to. Oh, and of course he's physically adept at pretty much anything he tries his hand at.

Oh, and I almost forgot that he's also The Chosen One As Foretold by Prophesy And Legend. Although I'm pretty sure the author's going to try and pull something cute with that.
Hehe, this pair of sentences amuses me. xD I think you'll enjoy what he does with that there over the course of the 6 books.