PS4 Architect: Cloud Computing Won't Make Graphics Better

[Dorian Cornelius Jasper]

It's kind of amusing how the proper Escapist comment threads, which are usually hidden from the frontpage, is filled with rather reasonable opinions. While the Facebook plugin comments tend to gather people with noticeably stronger biases in whatever direction you care to look. I'm not sad Facebook is going into decline, it's a little annoying.

I don't really have a horse in the console race, being primarily a PC gamer, but I like how Sony's people have repeatedly given people straight talk rather than buzzwords and decisions made at a strategic level show that they're going in without making any assumptions as to whether or not they've already won. Sony suffered from that last generation, and now Microsoft fell victim to the same.

Dont care about cloud, just another buzz. I dont care about the graphics i just want good games.Thing is, i have no interest in the PS4, the exclusives dont interest me. But it seems they are continuing to beat the "MS is doing this, we are not" drum. Its pathetic. Sony have yet to sell me on anything they are doing.

I wouldn't say it's pathetic, it's simply just being smart. Compare this to the PS3 launch, which we can all agree was as pathetic as we all remember. They're not being contrarian for the sake of it, they're keeping a finger on the public pulse and making sure they don't get caught flatfooted the way MS was. This cloud announcement? It's just the PS4's lead dev explaining that, no, the Cloud isn't a magic bullet, especially since the PS4 uses cloud computing too.

MS is doing a lot less to sell the Xbox One than Sony is to sell the PS4, and I have even less reason to pick up an Xbone than a PS4. There's no real exclusives between them besides Forza and Halo on one side and niche Japanese products on the other, and any game that I'm actually interested in will come to PC after their timed exclusivity periods are over. The Kinect would be interesting for casual audiences, but even in office buildings there's a lot of negative scuttlebutt about it in the post-PRISM political landscape. A decent number (not overwhelming, but noticeable enough to comment on) of Xbox players I know are tired of Microsoft sidelining gaming in favor of turning their console into "home entertainment boxes," with inconvenient UIs, advertising, and recent marketing pushes that show that gaming is not the highest priority when designing their game-playing devices--trends that appear to continue into the new console generation. There's a lot of little things that bother people about Microsoft and they've been adding up for a long time now, this recent kerfluffle with the Xbox One being just one part of it.

If I were to dip into this new generation, and I find it hard to count the Wii U, I'd probably go with the PS4 unless an Xbone price cut were to undercut it by about a hundred dollars.

 

[oldtaku]

This is why I love Mark Cerny and have high hopes for PS4. No bullshit.

Cloud is great for stuff like the Driveatars (as stupid as that name is) or changing the world in the background. It is not, for the foreseeable future at least, going to be any use for anything realtime. Certainly not as long as AT&T, TWC, and Comcast are your ISPs.

 

[Griffolion]

Wow, is this guy just reading all the right stuff off a sheet or something? It's so weird to see someone this senior so down to earth. From what he's said, they've struck the right balance with the cloud. It's used to offload some tasks that are not particularly time sensitive so the PS4 can concentrate on more important things.

And that's fine, baby steps. We can see more implementations of cloud computing as and when internet connections become faster and more robust.

 

[Abomination]

My best examples of seeing how it would work is when I play on a 32 person server then load up my own 31 bot server of some game.

The 32 person server ran perfectly when I played on it but the 31 bot server running on my own machine ran at about 60% FPS. Clearly AI requires processing power and if that can be off-loaded to another location it can cause the immediate machine to run faster.

I, however, do not like the idea of my computer relying on another computer for a single player game. That's all Cloud computing is, making your single player game a multiplayer game without multiple players. We had a really shitty version of that attempted recently, it was called Sim City.

I wonder how much a company will be able to lie and say ?Cloud Powered? when really next to nothing is cloud powered and the game is just using another form of invasive DRM? on the XBone with your always on Kinect.

Tinfoil hat, sure? but I?ve learned you give these corporations an inch they?ll piss all over it then try and feed it to you.

 

[nathan-dts]

Not sure if Mark Cerny is a legitimately cool guy...

... Or he's just been browsing threads to find out what we've been complaining about the most

Regardless, at least he's not telling us bullshit. Streaming and cloud services can give us cool things like cloud saves and streaming games instantly. It'll be useful for things like demoing games because who has the patience to download a game you're going to test for 15 minutes? Microsoft's calculation magic has already been proven physically impossible because of bandwidth

The guy joined Atari at 17 because he loved games, and he's in the industry for 31 years. The impression I get from Mark Cerny is that he still loves games and will listen to evidence and opinion about games. Just a quick Wikipedia link to his portfolio of games, below. He clearly knows game design which sort of mandates knowing gamers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cerny#Significant_games

 

[nathan-dts]

My best examples of seeing how it would work is when I play on a 32 person server then load up my own 31 bot server of some game.

The 32 person server ran perfectly when I played on it but the 31 bot server running on my own machine ran at about 60% FPS. Clearly AI requires processing power and if that can be off-loaded to another location it can cause the immediate machine to run faster.

I, however, do not like the idea of my computer relying on another computer for a single player game. That's all Cloud computing is, making your single player game a multiplayer game without multiple players. We had a really shitty version of that attempted recently, it was called Sim City.

I wonder how much a company will be able to lie and say ?Cloud Powered? when really next to nothing is cloud powered and the game is just using another form of invasive DRM? on the XBone with your always on Kinect.

Tinfoil hat, sure? but I?ve learned you give these corporations an inch they?ll piss all over it then try and feed it to you.

Too slow. You have AI partially thrown into the cloud then you're going to be uploading all of the variables and downloading all of the process information. Wouldn't work cohesively; internet is too slow.

 

[nathan-dts]

Wow, is this guy just reading all the right stuff off a sheet or something? It's so weird to see someone this senior so down to earth. From what he's said, they've struck the right balance with the cloud. It's used to offload some tasks that are not particularly time sensitive so the PS4 can concentrate on more important things.

And that's fine, baby steps. We can see more implementations of cloud computing as and when internet connections become faster and more robust.

He's not an executive. He designs games and he's been doing it for over three decades. You can't design games without knowing the gamers that are your audience. On top of that, he designs a lot of platformers, one of the most fun and creative genre of games. I think Mark is legitimately just a great guy.

 

[Roxas1359]

Wow, is this guy just reading all the right stuff off a sheet or something? It's so weird to see someone this senior so down to earth. From what he's said, they've struck the right balance with the cloud. It's used to offload some tasks that are not particularly time sensitive so the PS4 can concentrate on more important things.

And that's fine, baby steps. We can see more implementations of cloud computing as and when internet connections become faster and more robust.

He's not an executive. He designs games and he's been doing it for over three decades. You can't design games without knowing the gamers that are your audience. On top of that, he designs a lot of platformers, one of the most fun and creative genre of games. I think Mark is legitimately just a great guy.

He used to be the vice president and later president of Universal Interactive Studios which is why he helped to work on the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro games, but he left later on. He's also the lead architect of the PS4 so if anyone knows the console it'd be him. I do have to say he comes off as a really nice guy and his work speaks wonders for him. Can't wait to see how Knack does.

 

[Simalacrum]

Not sure if Mark Cerny is a legitimately cool guy...

... Or he's just been browsing threads to find out what we've been complaining about the most

Maybe he's a legitimately cool guy because he's been browsing threads to find out what we've been complaining about the most?

Either way, I think Sony's PR method of playing down Cloud Computing is a good move. It seems like letting the lead architect do a lot of the talking about the PS4 is turning out to be a rather good thing for them, especially considering the PR meltdown that Microsoft had over on their side

 

[Abomination]

My best examples of seeing how it would work is when I play on a 32 person server then load up my own 31 bot server of some game.

The 32 person server ran perfectly when I played on it but the 31 bot server running on my own machine ran at about 60% FPS. Clearly AI requires processing power and if that can be off-loaded to another location it can cause the immediate machine to run faster.

I, however, do not like the idea of my computer relying on another computer for a single player game. That's all Cloud computing is, making your single player game a multiplayer game without multiple players. We had a really shitty version of that attempted recently, it was called Sim City.

I wonder how much a company will be able to lie and say ?Cloud Powered? when really next to nothing is cloud powered and the game is just using another form of invasive DRM? on the XBone with your always on Kinect.

Tinfoil hat, sure? but I?ve learned you give these corporations an inch they?ll piss all over it then try and feed it to you.

Too slow. You have AI partially thrown into the cloud then you're going to be uploading all of the variables and downloading all of the process information. Wouldn't work cohesively; internet is too slow.

No, doesn't work like that. The player's position would be uploaded to the server and the AI on the SERVER would react to it, all calculations done there, then the RESULT of those calculations would be uploaded to your machine/game and you would see the result of the reaction.

It wouldn't have to send as much information as you predict, it'd be just like playing Starcraft II if all the bot commanders were on someone else's computer. The only lag would be the delay between sending the player information and the return of information from the cloud server.

It'd just be like playing a single player MMO online. The only thing your computer would have to handle is input and graphics.

In theory it would be great for games such as Skyrim with a massive world allowing the PS3 to focus more on the display rather than the mechanics, physics and all that rubbish - but there would still be a bit of latency lag as opposed to frame lag.

 

[UnnDunn]

Whatever you think about cloud computing in games, the bottom line is that Microsoft is at least trying to make it work. There are studios making Xbox One games asking "how can we use cloud computing to make our game better." That's a good thing.

 

[Fireprufe15]

Cloud computing in the way of offloading processes to the cloud isn't something that's even remotely possible. What he's saying is the cloud calculations are the things that have always been cloud calculations, like matchmaking.

The cloud isn't some magical wonderland, it's a bunch of servers meant primarily for storage, hence cloud saving being the only logical use for the cloud until everyone has 1 TB/s internet. The use of buzzwords is starting to get me down, companies, please study the technical things of your buzzwords before using them.

Thank you Sony for being honest with us and for being technically accurate. Im not a console gamer but I might buy a PS4 just to screw Microsoft.

 

[subtlefuge]

I don't see any reason why 2-3 years down the line you wouldn't be able to offload some basic graphical tasks like shadows or reflections to cloud computing. I would be surprised to find out that the Xbone had that technology, but I am certain that they couldn't possibly have something more than that. I'm thinking the equivalent of adjusting a single PC graphics setting up one notch, but Microsoft is selling it as running significant game assets and code.

Even if Microsoft could do what they claim, and even if it was stable and optimized well, developers would have no clue what to do with it. This whole hooplah is garbage.

 

[Rainforce]

When exactly did everyone stop calling them servers (i.e. what they actually are) and started referring to them as "the cloud" ?

 

[Zakarath]

Well, duh. Even if you have what would normally be decent latency (~50 ms) to whatever servers are doing your "Cloud Computing", that's still way too much delay to offload any of the graphics rendering without making things look really screwy. The most critical thing about rendering game graphics is that it has to happen fast; forcibly inserting any delay at all, let alone the massive one required to talk to a server, is absurdly counterproductive.

 

[Arawn]

I won't pretend I understand fully how this Cloud computing works. As best I can figure it's pretty much a method to enhance the processing power of the system. This process is reliant on the internet. On paper this sounds very advantageous, yet there are some points that puzzle me. The first question is the need to be online. As someone mentioned if the majority of the work is done by the Cloud wouldn't this bring problems for those with low internet services? People with limited bandwith? What about online games? Not really sure how much more strain Cloud computing would be. But it does then shed light on the always on, that was coming with the Xbox One. They needed you to be online to fully access the Cloud and it's features. So is the Cloud a primary system for MS console or is a secondary one? Is the Xbox so weak that it needs the Cloud to make up for it, or supplement it's abilities? In either case aren't the consumers paying $499 for something that won't work at 100% unless online? In essence doesn't that mean they paid half a thousand for half of console? Without definite answers it's hard to tell how well it will work compared to how it should work.

 

[Revolutionary]

Because Everyone Knows that Mark Cerny is an expert on the capabilities and limitations provided by cloud computing technology, especially seeing as Sony has /so much experience/ in this field.

 

[vallorn]

When exactly did everyone stop calling them servers (i.e. what they actually are) and started referring to them as "the cloud" ?

when a PR team realized they could make more money with a name like "The Cloud" I think.

Whatever you think about cloud computing in games, the bottom line is that Microsoft is at least trying to make it work. There are studios making Xbox One games asking "how can we use cloud computing to make our game better." That's a good thing.

Welcome back UnnDunn. Now onto the real reply, Sony are trying to make it work too. The only difference is that Microsoft proclaim it as a mystical cure-all while Sony are giving us honest facts about what it can and cannot do.

 

[The White Hunter]

Not sure if Mark Cerny is a legitimately cool guy...

... Or he's just been browsing threads to find out what we've been complaining about the most

Regardless, at least he's not telling us bullshit. Streaming and cloud services can give us cool things like cloud saves and streaming games instantly. It'll be useful for things like demoing games because who has the patience to download a game you're going to test for 15 minutes? Microsoft's calculation magic has already been proven physically impossible because of bandwidth

I think he's a legitimately cool guy.

It's true that the "Cloud" bullshit Microsoft is pushing is simply not a solution when compared to simply having a more powerful machine. IT makes everything more complicated and I won't call it viable until we have a quantum internet.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

I love how people were clearly being paid to promote the XBOX One. Even before they retracted the always on DRM and no used games thing, people were still saying things like "Wait for E3! Don't count Microsoft out!". And all this clear and obvious paid damage control. The American market is so owned by Microsoft that nobody in the gaming press can say anything honestly bad about Microsoft products. I was amazed at how many people proved they were being payed in the ways they would rush to the defense of Microsoft and damage control the XBOX One.

Now their job is even easier to act like the playing field is even and "don't jump to conclusions" about the "console war". Now that Microsoft has ditched the two biggest things that would ruin them in this generation. But really, Sony is still leagues ahead.

The fact of the matter is that cloud gaming isn't ready yet, and throwing out hardware for it won't be worthwhile. Boosting graphics could, in theory, work in the cloud. And Mark isn't saying that it couldn't. But it isn't a current very good usage for such a thing. And honest, as powerful as the the PlayStation 4 and XBOX One are, and how weak internet connections are in most of the world, it wouldn't be worthwhile at all. If you want to play a game that won't run on current consoles, just get a gaming PC that can handle the workload. It isn't worth being always connected to the internet in order to play a game the XBOX One can't technically handle. Or get slightly better resolution or AA, for that matter.

"Cloud" was just a buzzword excuse. If cloud enhancements like that were already worthwhile, they would have already been used in PC gaming for a long time. The fact of the matter is, everything will "come to the cloud" when the cloud is good and ready. Meaning fast internet will be readily available. And when that happens, people won't want it in a console anyway. They'll want it in a smart TV, in a cheap TV box that costs less than $100, they'll want it in their Oculus Rift, they'll want it in their Google Glass, they'll want it in their tablet and in their ultrabook. Using cloud computing for graphical capabilities over the internet right now, is not worthwhile. People don't want to buy a big, expensive console, in order to simply rely on internet for boosted computing performance.

XBOX indeed has been able to negate some of the destruction to their product by backtracking on all their "the cloud! the cloud!" junk. Like this was Final Fantasy VII. But they're still in a horrible PR position. Sony is doing all of the right things, and has been telling consumers what they've actually wanted to hear from the beginning. Things like this, too, are why people are a lot more happy with Sony and the PlayStation 4 than the XBOX One. People want the PlayStation 4 and like Sony right now because they're being down to earth, and no-nonsense, and consumer-friendly.

I am getting a PlayStation 4. I have no current plans do get an XBOX One at all. And this, is most people. Though I at least appreciate the gesture of Microsoft being less ridiculous with the XBOX One.