PS4 tablet interactivity stomping all over the Wii U?

[itsmeyouidiot]

let me try again, the PS4 will connect to all kinds of mobile devices like tablets, smartphones and PS Vitas with Gaikai for live streaming of PS4 games.

Why would I want to stream a console game to a device with terrible controls? Say what you will about the accessibility and technology of the Wii U Gamepad, it has buttons. I think that factor will be one lots of people underestimate, just like everybody underestimated the power of having a peripheral as standard last generation.

A good tablet has plenty of controls, you can have buttons in any layout you want and the screens are sensitive enough to mimic analogue sticks. You can even have feedback on the buttons presses, it takes a little bit of getting used to but a good quality touch screen can do everything as well physical buttons apart from the slight resistance you get from analogue sticks. Then you have the advantage of laying them out in any configuration the developer/player wants with a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

To the average person, the Wii U's touch screen is no better than the touch screen of a tablet. It's true that it may not be as technically advanced, but most people aren't going to notice or care.

Most of the people I know are college students who don't have a tablet. Buying a Wii U is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a PS4 and a tablet.

 

[J Tyran]

let me try again, the PS4 will connect to all kinds of mobile devices like tablets, smartphones and PS Vitas with Gaikai for live streaming of PS4 games.

Why would I want to stream a console game to a device with terrible controls? Say what you will about the accessibility and technology of the Wii U Gamepad, it has buttons. I think that factor will be one lots of people underestimate, just like everybody underestimated the power of having a peripheral as standard last generation.

A good tablet has plenty of controls, you can have buttons in any layout you want and the screens are sensitive enough to mimic analogue sticks. You can even have feedback on the buttons presses, it takes a little bit of getting used to but a good quality touch screen can do everything as well physical buttons apart from the slight resistance you get from analogue sticks. Then you have the advantage of laying them out in any configuration the developer/player wants with a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

To the average person, the Wii U's touch screen is no better than the touch screen of a tablet. It's true that it may not be as technically advanced, but most people aren't going to notice or care.

Most of the people I know are college students who don't have a tablet. Buying a Wii U is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a PS4 and a tablet.

They might not care but the difference is obvious, no multi touch and limited to a stylus. It does make a difference to the usability and functionality of the devices, do you think devices like iPad and the Samsung Galaxy phones (and all the rest) would ever have been so popular if everyone could only interact one press at a time plinking away with a stylus?

Edit,

I should add that none of the major tablets or phones have full touch screen feed back at the moment, the big manufactures have been doing a huge amount of research though. The next gen of iPads and Galaxy tabs might have it, as well as some fancy things like wireless recharging.

 

[itsmeyouidiot]

let me try again, the PS4 will connect to all kinds of mobile devices like tablets, smartphones and PS Vitas with Gaikai for live streaming of PS4 games.

Why would I want to stream a console game to a device with terrible controls? Say what you will about the accessibility and technology of the Wii U Gamepad, it has buttons. I think that factor will be one lots of people underestimate, just like everybody underestimated the power of having a peripheral as standard last generation.

A good tablet has plenty of controls, you can have buttons in any layout you want and the screens are sensitive enough to mimic analogue sticks. You can even have feedback on the buttons presses, it takes a little bit of getting used to but a good quality touch screen can do everything as well physical buttons apart from the slight resistance you get from analogue sticks. Then you have the advantage of laying them out in any configuration the developer/player wants with a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

To the average person, the Wii U's touch screen is no better than the touch screen of a tablet. It's true that it may not be as technically advanced, but most people aren't going to notice or care.

Most of the people I know are college students who don't have a tablet. Buying a Wii U is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a PS4 and a tablet.

They might not care but the difference is obvious, no multi touch and limited to a stylus. It does make a difference to the usability and functionality of the devices, do you think devices like iPad and the Samsung Galaxy phones (and all the rest) would ever have been so popular if everyone could only interact one press at a time plinking away with a stylus?

When I use my iPhone I only ever have one finger on the touch screen at a time, so no, I don't think multitouch a difference. The Stylus also grants a level of precision that fingers don't have, and in some cases it isn't even necessary.

 

[J Tyran]

let me try again, the PS4 will connect to all kinds of mobile devices like tablets, smartphones and PS Vitas with Gaikai for live streaming of PS4 games.

Why would I want to stream a console game to a device with terrible controls? Say what you will about the accessibility and technology of the Wii U Gamepad, it has buttons. I think that factor will be one lots of people underestimate, just like everybody underestimated the power of having a peripheral as standard last generation.

A good tablet has plenty of controls, you can have buttons in any layout you want and the screens are sensitive enough to mimic analogue sticks. You can even have feedback on the buttons presses, it takes a little bit of getting used to but a good quality touch screen can do everything as well physical buttons apart from the slight resistance you get from analogue sticks. Then you have the advantage of laying them out in any configuration the developer/player wants with a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

To the average person, the Wii U's touch screen is no better than the touch screen of a tablet. It's true that it may not be as technically advanced, but most people aren't going to notice or care.

Most of the people I know are college students who don't have a tablet. Buying a Wii U is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a PS4 and a tablet.

They might not care but the difference is obvious, no multi touch and limited to a stylus. It does make a difference to the usability and functionality of the devices, do you think devices like iPad and the Samsung Galaxy phones (and all the rest) would ever have been so popular if everyone could only interact one press at a time plinking away with a stylus?

When I use my iPhone I only ever have one finger on the touch screen at a time, so no, I don't think multitouch a difference. The Stylus also grants a level of precision that fingers don't have, and in some cases it isn't even necessary.

You sound like my Dad, he plinks away with his index finger (joke) Don't you ever use it when browsing? typing? multitasking? If I could only operate my screen one press at a time I would have thrown it down the toilet in frustration years ago.

 

[Yopaz]

My iPad has one button. Using it for games that aren't fully intended for touch screen controls is pointless.

The Wii U gamepad might be worse in every single way as you say, but it does have buttons.

Who will win isn't a matter of who's got the best tech. It's about how they use it. Even the best tech is a waste if it's not used correctly. Take the HDDVD, it had some potential, but it fell through. Let us actually see the console before we say it is winning. Oh wait, this is another fanboy war, forget I tried to make sense here. Carry on and discuss why your favourite console already won the next gen.

 

[NoeL]

A £100 cheap Chinese Android tablet is better than the Wii U controller,

As someone who owns a cheap Chinese Android tablet (with physical buttons for gaming too) I say with confidence that no way in fuck does it come anywhere close to the Wii U controller. The touch screen sucks, the buttons barely work, the "analog" stick is hardwired to the dpad (i.e. pressing up on the dpad and up on the "analog" stick register identical digital signals), the battery is WORSE than the Gamepad, and the thing feels like a cheap piece of shit from a Chinese sweatshop... oh wait, that's because it is (FYI, talking about the Yinlips YDPG16 here, although to be fair this one wasn't quite 100 quid).

Anyway, regarding your initial argument about tablets on PS4 stomping over the Wii U Gamepad... no, not really. Most tablets that people own don't have buttons. Since you can't really hold a tablet in one hand and a controller in the other, you've got to pick one or the other. I don't think many developers will design a game to be played on the iPad, for use with the PS4. That would just be a bit silly. So despite the popularity of tablets, tablets with physical gaming controls aren't popular at all. Regarding tablet interactivity, I very much doubt much of that will revolve around gaming - which is completely different to Nintendo's intentions with the Gamepad.

a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

Try drawing on a capacitive screen. What's that? Hard to be precise with those big sausage fingers? No problem, just use a blunt drawing tool, like a stylus. What's that? It doesn't work because capacitive touch screens register touches by measuring the electrical resistance in your fingertips - something not every blunt tool has? Bummer - I guess you'll have to go buy one of those fandangled, expensive capacitive styluses. Or you could make one out of household items, but oh, make sure it's at least a 1/4 inch thick or it won't work. What's that? Can't do small details with something that wide? Hmm... well, I guess you're shit out of luck. Go play Angry Birds instead.

Jokes aside, Nintendo wanted to integrate drawing into their social network because people loved it on the DS, and a resistive screen + stylus is much better for drawing than a capacitive screen + finger. Resistive screens are also more robust, so there's less chance of excited children breaking them. It's not a simple case of 'capacitive = new and good, resistive = old and shit'; despite being cheaper to produce, Nintendo had good core design reasons for going resistive over capacitive.

 

[Zeh Don]

When watching the conference, I couldn't help but be reminded of the Playstation Six-Axis during the PS3 reveal.
They shoe-horned in motion controls in a bid to hedge their bets against Nintendo and touted that the feature was innovative and would allow developers the ability to express new ideas. Unfortunately, it was universally hated.

Later, with Playstation Move, they copied Nintendo down to the letter, and ended up with a peripheral that no one used, understood or liked because - frankly - everyone who wanted Motion Controls already bought a Wii.

Wii U comes out with a fairly innovative GamePad idea and shows off some terrific streaming tech. Microsoft steps up with SmartGlass, which was ignored by virtually everyone because it doesn't seem to actually DO anything, and Sony comes out with it's own streaming stuff.

So, just to count:
The most powerful console of all time? Ideas shamelessly copied from it's competitors? Aiming for a high price point, which is revealed as late as possible to maximise hype?
I mean - did Sony learn nothing from the utter, utter failure of the PS Vita, and the lackluster performance of the PS3?

 

[xPixelatedx]

Does the PS4 being able to integrate with smartphones and tablets enable them to steal the thunder from the Wii Us only real unique feature?

No, because you forgot the wiiU is backwards compatible

Also remember the PlayStation 3 tried to steal the thunder of the original wii's waggle stick with the Move. Look how that turned out.

 

[sethisjimmy]

Not sure why everyone's stuck on the Vita. It's a seperate game system that has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about modern tablets and the PS4. PS Vita is neither of those.

Anyway, seems like a battle of pointless crap vs pointless crap.

For the PS4, it has pointless touch controls but at least the controller is a comfortable size and shape with more 360-like ergonomics. As for tablet controls, I would never use it, and if the feature mostly has to do with third party (ie ipad, android) connectivity I can see most developers completely ignoring it. Unless they hamfist it into games like what they did with the Move. It working with third party software as opposed to proprietary is a good idea that takes advantage of products plenty of people already have, but I just like the fact that if you don't want to use it to play games, you don't have to go anywhere near a tablet. Hopefully.

I prefer the advantage of choice with what Sony's doing these days though. Where the Wii and Wii U forced you to use their respective control style, the Move and tablet connectivity are both just optional bonuses. As someone who hates modern motion controls and touch controls for anything except basic phone functions/web browsing, I enjoy being able to mostly ignore that crap when I want to play a game.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Does anyone actually want all this tablet interactivity, remote play crap? Seems like companies are pushing something no-one really wants or needs just because they think it is the new hip thing.

Pretty much every single new feature of the PS4 is something I didn't want, need, or ask for, which is probably why I found the press conference so unappealing. I am certainly not sold on the PS4 even in the slightest. All that effort could have been directed at something much more constructive, like an all-in-one Playstation. But not only am I not going to finally get to retire my PS2, I can't retire my PS3 either apparently. Instead everything is going to be even more a cluster**** should I have the nerve to try and experience the "social hub" that is the PS4. Also I like how they spent 20 minutes explaining how much more easier it will be to buy things from their store. Real classy.
I really hope Microsoft goes in the other direction and impresses me. The bar is set low, so I'm optimistic.

but at least the controller is a comfortable size and shape with more 360-like ergonomics.

As someone with little hands I have never had a problem with the Playstation controllers, while 360 controllers cramp my hands. You can understand me being unhappy right now.

 

[J Tyran]

A £100 cheap Chinese Android tablet is better than the Wii U controller,

As someone who owns a cheap Chinese Android tablet (with physical buttons for gaming too) I say with confidence that no way in fuck does it come anywhere close to the Wii U controller. The touch screen sucks, the buttons barely work, the "analog" stick is hardwired to the dpad (i.e. pressing up on the dpad and up on the "analog" stick register identical digital signals), the battery is WORSE than the Gamepad, and the thing feels like a cheap piece of shit from a Chinese sweatshop... oh wait, that's because it is (FYI, talking about the Yinlips YDPG16 here, although to be fair this one wasn't quite 100 quid).

Anyway, regarding your initial argument about tablets on PS4 stomping over the Wii U Gamepad... no, not really. Most tablets that people own don't have buttons. Since you can't really hold a tablet in one hand and a controller in the other, you've got to pick one or the other. I don't think many developers will design a game to be played on the iPad, for use with the PS4. That would just be a bit silly. So despite the popularity of tablets, tablets with physical gaming controls aren't popular at all. Regarding tablet interactivity, I very much doubt much of that will revolve around gaming - which is completely different to Nintendo's intentions with the Gamepad.

a far superior touch screen than the Wii Us crappy old fashioned resistive touch screen.

Try drawing on a capacitive screen. What's that? Hard to be precise with those big sausage fingers? No problem, just use a blunt drawing tool, like a stylus. What's that? It doesn't work because capacitive touch screens register touches by measuring the electrical resistance in your fingertips - something not every blunt tool has? Bummer - I guess you'll have to go buy one of those fandangled, expensive capacitive styluses. Or you could make one out of household items, but oh, make sure it's at least a 1/4 inch thick or it won't work. What's that? Can't do small details with something that wide? Hmm... well, I guess you're shit out of luck. Go play Angry Birds instead.

Jokes aside, Nintendo wanted to integrate drawing into their social network because people loved it on the DS, and a resistive screen + stylus is much better for drawing than a capacitive screen + finger. Resistive screens are also more robust, so there's less chance of excited children breaking them. It's not a simple case of 'capacitive = new and good, resistive = old and shit'; despite being cheaper to produce, Nintendo had good core design reasons for going resistive over capacitive.

Well the Chinese tablet was a bit of hyperbole to an extent, but not that far off. The tablet you mention seems a particulary rotten example though (I had to google it), its cheap but that's all that's going for it. For really cheap and still fairly decent Chinese imports "Chinainvasion.com" have some of the better stuff. £100-150 gets you a 7" Tegra, Exynos or Cortex chipped tablet with anything up to 320dpi 1280x800 screens.

Drawing with a Stylus is better sure, no arguing there but apart from some social mini games and drawing games how relevant is that?

You are also judging it by tablets out now chances are by the time the Wii U is less than half way through its life cycle tablets will be up to 4K HD with full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller and wireless charging with enough range to cover the average living room. All with more power than half the laptops on the market.

Tablets are better than the Wii U game pad now, within 2-3 years they will transcend it.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

No. But you know what does? Shiny graphics. People will stand in line to buy the PS4 after they've seen Watch Dogs last night. Which was running on PC, by the way.

No one is going to care about tablet integration. It's just another gimmick that people will forget about. As always, the most successful games will be the ones that let you just sit and relax with a controller in your hands.

 

[NoeL]

Drawing with a Stylus is better sure, no arguing there but apart from some social mini games and drawing games how relevant is that?

Not particularly relevant, I just don't think you're justified in calling the "old fashioned" screen on the Gamepad "crappy". If the older tech is better suited to your needs than the newer tech, what's so "crappy" about going with the older tech? You need to get out of the mindset that newer = better.

You are also judging it by tablets out now chances are by the time the Wii U is less than half way through its life cycle tablets will be up to 4K HD with full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller and wireless charging with enough range to cover the average living room. All with more power than half the laptops on the market.

Tablets are better than the Wii U game pad now, within 2-3 years they will transcend it.

Despite the fact that's nothing but speculative assumptions, you're not going to be able to turn a tablet into an ergonomic game controller - even if haptic feedback technology progresses to the point of perfectly simulating the feel of actual buttons, or something equally responsive (something I highly doubt). I don't doubt tablets are going to get pretty cool in the coming years, I just doubt anyone's going to bother turning one into a decent PS4 controller.

EDIT: Besides, your argument was that people could pick up a cheap Chinese tablet and go to town. Cheap tablets are not going to have "4K HD with full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller and wireless charging with enough range to cover the average living room" even five years from now, let alone 2-3.

 

[Mr. Omega]

You know, they made a big deal about being able to take the game with you on the Vita when you go out.

Yeah, I'm typically doing something when I go out. That's kinda why smartphone games have taken off: they're quick, simple and can be over and done with in the time it takes you to take a crap. I feel like Sony saw on-the-go gaming was popular, but didn't think why it was popular.

I don't know, maybe it'd just me, but I do think there should be a clear difference between a handheld experience and a console experience.

Plus the WiiU Gamepad has those wonderful, magical little things called buttons. Seriously, why is it everyone seems to forget that?

 

[lapan]

As someone with little hands I have never had a problem with the Playstation controllers, while 360 controllers cramp my hands. You can understand me being unhappy right now.

I have pretty long fingers and even i prefer the PS controllers. Might have something to do with being used to them since the PS1 though.

 

[NoeL]

Plus the WiiU Gamepad has those wonderful, magical little things called buttons. Seriously, why is it everyone seems to forget that?

Because in 2-3 years tablets will be able to vibrate in a way that kinda sorta feels like a real button - all without that pesky third dimension getting in the way! XD Well, that's J Tyran's speculation at least.

 

[J Tyran]

Drawing with a Stylus is better sure, no arguing there but apart from some social mini games and drawing games how relevant is that?

Not particularly relevant, I just don't think you're justified in calling the "old fashioned" screen on the Gamepad "crappy". If the older tech is better suited to your needs than the newer tech, what's so "crappy" about going with the older tech? You need to get out of the mindset that newer = better.

You are also judging it by tablets out now chances are by the time the Wii U is less than half way through its life cycle tablets will be up to 4K HD with full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller and wireless charging with enough range to cover the average living room. All with more power than half the laptops on the market.

Tablets are better than the Wii U game pad now, within 2-3 years they will transcend it.

Despite the fact that's nothing but speculative assumptions, you're not going to be able to turn a tablet into an ergonomic game controller - even if haptic feedback technology progresses to the point of perfectly simulating the feel of actual buttons, or something equally responsive (something I highly doubt). I don't doubt tablets are going to get pretty cool in the coming years, I just doubt anyone's going to bother turning one into a decent PS4 controller.

EDIT: Besides, your argument was that people could pick up a cheap Chinese tablet and go to town. Cheap tablets are not going to have "4K HD with full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller and wireless charging with enough range to cover the average living room" even five years from now, let alone 2-3.

Cheap tablets aint gonna be like that, you will have to pay if you want a device like that. As for noone bothering to make games for it, Sony have already committed themselves heavily to game development for smartphones and tablets. They seem to have collected the tatters of the Xperia brand and collecting it into a PSN linked "Playstation Mobile" and are trying to side step app stores by direct purchases through the Playstation Mobile apps.

If this doesn't die a miserable death and Sony match the hype and marketing surrounding the PS4 games between the different platforms will probably be interchangeable through PSN to a degree.

Also none of that tech I listed is speculative, its all stuff in the final stages of development. Companies like Apple are all vigorously pursuing these and other technologies to try and keep ahead in the exploding mobile device market. There are some other things in the pipeline but those are a bit speculative in terms of cost and practicality, the things I listed will be in your hands within three years or so.

Heres some sources for the tech,

Haptic touchscreen feedback [http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=11&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28%28%22Apple%22.AS.%29+AND+20120503.PD.%29&OS=AN/%22Apple%22+and+PD/05/03/2012&RS=%28AN/%22Apple%22+AND+PD/20120503%29]
Full room wireless charging [http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/digital-home/3408297/power-play-wireless-charging-at-distance-arrives/]

 

[NoeL]

Cheap tablets aint gonna be like that, you will have to pay if you want a device like that.

So pay $1000 for a tablet that somewhat simulates the feel of buttons, or $200 (estimating it's price after 2-3 years) for a Wii U with a pad that has actual buttons... again, see what I mean about newer not necessarily equaling better?

As for noone bothering to make games for it, Sony have already committed themselves heavily to game development for smartphones and tablets. They seem to have collected the tatters of the Xperia brand and collecting it into a PSN linked "Playstation Mobile" and are trying to side step app stores by direct purchases through the Playstation Mobile apps.

Cool. I wish them luck with that and would love to see them back their hardware with solid software.

Also none of that tech I listed is speculative, its all stuff in the final stages of development. Companies like Apple are all vigorously pursuing these and other technologies to try and keep ahead in the exploding mobile device market. There are some other things in the pipeline but those are a bit speculative in terms of cost and practicality, the things I listed will be in your hands within three years or so.

"full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller" is very much speculative. Something that vibrates while your finger is over the "skip track" button is a far cry from matching the tactile feedback of a physical button, and realistically this is probably the best we'll see in the next 2-3 years. Don't give in to the hype. It's new technology, and like all new tech it'll start slow and get better over the years. You're not going to go from no tactile feedback to an accurate simulation of a physical button in one step. It'll certainly be a step up from no tactile response at all, but still a far cry from a physical button.

 

[J Tyran]

"full semantic tactile touchscreens mimicking the buttons on any controller" is very much speculative. Something that vibrates while your finger is over the "skip track" button is a far cry from matching the tactile feedback of a physical button, and realistically this is probably the best we'll see in the next 2-3 years. Don't give in to the hype. It's new technology, and like all new tech it'll start slow and get better over the years. You're not going to go from no tactile feedback to an accurate simulation of a physical button in one step. It'll certainly be a step up from no tactile response at all, but still a far cry from a physical button.

No its not speculative at all, this stuff is real and is in product development labs and protoypes. The tech exists now and has been around since 2010, its not just micro vibration.

-it can physically change the surface of the screen
-it can stimulate nerves in the finger tips
-it can make the screen feel rough, smooth and provide resistance.

Buttons are no problem, it raises/lowers the surface slightly and gives the impression of kicking back when pressed. Again this is not speculation its very real and is already invented, they are just figuring out how to get it into the products and get the prices right.

If I was to speculate I would say Apple and Samsung my even be as far along as factoring and consulting with suppliers. Thats pure speculation though, 2-3 years is the most likely time frame for all of the stuff I mentioned to find its way into high end tablets.

 

[NoeL]

No its not speculative at all, this stuff is real and is in product development labs and protoypes. The tech exists now and has been around since 2010, its not just micro vibration.

-it can physically change the surface of the screen
-it can stimulate nerves in the finger tips
-it can make the screen feel rough, smooth and provide resistance.

Buttons are no problem, it raises/lowers the surface slightly and gives the impression of kicking back when pressed. Again this is not speculation its very real and is already invented, they are just figuring out how to get it into the products and get the prices right.

If I was to speculate I would say Apple and Samsung my even be as far along as factoring and consulting with suppliers. Thats pure speculation though, 2-3 years is the most likely time frame for all of the stuff I mentioned to find its way into high end tablets.

Well it sounds very impressive. I look forward to checking it out when it hits the market.