Pushing the limit of a game

[Jazzyluv]

I have a fascination with games that are very hard, have lots of little secrets, and essentially exploits, not intended by game developers but help gameplay regardless.

Starcraft the best game ever in my eyes, the game with near unlimited potential, has ALOT of exploits,

heres a quick list of some of them

hold position makes units attack quicker
patrol makes units respond faster
stacking air units to make it harder to click them
mutalick micro
"drilling" workers through enemy units by selecting mineral patchs
pushing yourself through solid objects with spider mines
setting a building close to a mineral line so that the workers will move in a straiter line so that you get money slightly faster.
attacking while moving by hitting the attack key and move key

and these are just some of them.... there are alot more, and all of these take skill, and still don't imbalance the game, they are a new thing to master that can give you an edge, that can make new strategies not previously possible a reality.

Quakeworld has a technique called bunnyjumping, and strafe jumping

This started because of an exploit in movement, because when moving at an angle it added both forward and side movement. So it worked by moving your mouse to the left and pressing the strafe left and NOT pressing the forward key, and this also applied to going right and you accelerate every time you curve in the air. This is very hard to do and master, allowed all kinds of new ways to grab armor, and also move around alot faster. you could also hold the forward key, and move your mouse either direction, and sort of pivot around your crosshair, to keep momentum while still being able to pull of a shot at and odd angle. And you have to do all this while aiming and whatnot..... so it added this whole new level of depth to the game, that just wasn't their before.

In devil may cry 1, you could interrupt the animation sequence of the grenade launcher by rolling, this technique allowed you to quickly fire off grenades, and made the gun a valid option in combat. You could also stop attacking in certain animation sequences of almost all the weapons and put on damage alot faster by using quick cancel moves.
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People who do things like this are pushing the limit of the game and the games engine to get an advantage, these aren't things that totally imbalances the game, this is something that adds depth, strategy, and something new to master into the game.... Most new games have removed these "exploits" and game mechanics due to the inaccessibility of many of them and possible difference of opinion on what gamers should do.


What do you think of people using these "skilled exploits"?

 

[Shamtee]

I don't mind thinking exploits in single player games often it funny to see whats happens, but in multiplayer a lot of them do cause a huge disadvantage to the other team/players and is a tech way of cheating.

 

[Jazzyluv]

I don't mind thinking exploits in single player games often it funny to see whats happens, but in multiplayer a lot of them do cause a huge disadvantage to the other team/players and is a tech way of cheating.

I don't see that, if they are unable to master said tactic then isn't that their fault for not learning it. I play Quakeworld, anyone who doesn't know how to bunnyjump is left in the dust, its just the same as the intentional skills rocket jumping and aiming.

They should be at disadvantage...

 

[ike_luv]

Nah I don't see it as a problem! Technically they have pushed the game and understood a "better" way of succeeding! I'm sure the developers may in many cases not intend it to be this way, although there are always examples where they've made a case of it being quite difficult!

For example, in some shooting games, like CoD4, the re-loading system HAS to finish before you can fire that weapon again. Although changing weapon is quicker, if you change back it still needs reloading cos that function hasn't completed yet. Nice topic!

 

[shatnershaman]

If it was cheating it wouldn't be in MLG (6 shot BR,Quicker reloads,quicker meele)

 

[monodiabloloco]

My brother made a one off comic several years ago to describe how we feel about gamers like that. It showed a kid infront of a TV that just said 'you are god'.
What it meant is that far too many people play games and don't enjoy the game itself. They only enjoy it as a means to dominate another human being or to dominate the machine itself. Usually, a psycological reaction to being dominated in their life by all around them. Boss, parents, spouse, friends, etc.
Being really good at a game is one thing. Exploiting every nuance of a game simply to always win seems to take the fun out of it. Of course, being domineering ass-hats is how some people get their kicks. A great many if x-box live is any indication.

 

[Jazzyluv]

well, i use these nuances to enjoy myself, I'm one of those people who like to push the game, and it is fun to master these things. I suck at quakeworld, i get dominated by EVERYONE(only been playing for 3 month), but i still play it simply to improve my game. I personally think that the instant gratification Online games(im looking at you TF2 and COD4) are so utterly boring because they have nothing to master outside of aim and position.

 

[Jak The Great]

I find that it takes away from the 'spirit' of the game. Sure you have these skills, but they were never intended to be used as a viable tactic.
If you want to totally dominate the other person, then this is definitely the best way to go. but in my experience I have much more fun with a game when nobody is exploiting these tactics.
I find them to basically be a form of cheating; you just don't have to enter a code.

 

[Jazzyluv]

I find that it takes away from the 'spirit' of the game. Sure you have these skills, but they were never intended to be used as a viable tactic.
If you want to totally dominate the other person, then this is definitely the best way to go. but in my experience I have much more fun with a game when nobody is exploiting these tactics.
I find them to basically be a form of cheating; you just don't have to enter a code.

What "spirit" if it improves gameplay, whats the problem... Bunny jumping is far better a skill than Pre-nadeing in COD4, and COD2..... In BF2, there was a technique called Pronespamming, wasn't that hard to do, but it made game so much faster, you could essentially shoot people while moving quickly. Lots of competitive players enjoyed it cause the game wasnt just pot-shot luck based shooting(essentially what bf2 was). But then there were other abilities, like C4 chucking that completely Imbalanced the game, the C4 chucking essentially broke the games balance(lol, Bf2 is not balanced wtf am i talking about). It was relatively easy, and didn't add depth. That's what Starcraft small glitches do, they add depth to the game.

 

[Sycosis]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned CS 1.6 yet. Not that i play it that much, or have done.. But the exploits there isn't imbalanced. It's just a part of the essence. It takes you a while to learn it, and the experienced players use them all the time. Valve wouldn't dare change anything, it's like balancing a rock on top of a tower built of crystal-glass.

 

[frontier psychiatrist]

Quakeworld has a technique called bunnyjumping, and strafe jumping

This started because of an exploit in movement, because when moving at an angle it added both forward and side movement. So it worked by moving your mouse to the left and pressing the strafe left and NOT pressing the forward key, and this also applied to going right and you accelerate every time you curve in the air. This is very hard to do and master, allowed all kinds of new ways to grab armor, and also move around alot faster. you could also hold the forward key, and move your mouse either direction, and sort of pivot around your crosshair, to keep momentum while still being able to pull of a shot at and odd angle. And you have to do all this while aiming and whatnot..... so it added this whole new level of depth to the game, that just wasn't their before.

Quakeworld is just a way of playing Quake multiplayer on the Internet, not a game itself. Quake has a lot of exploits based on the game's physics that have most notoriously been used by speedrunners. Bunnyhopping not only allows you to move around faster to save time, but also lets you clear gaps that are meant to stop you (I never bothered learning it, and it was never that useful in multiplayer, so I just strafe jumped). You can also move faster by "hugging" a wall (strafing against it while moving forward and looking slightly in the opposite direction), and then there are odd things like being able to use a sloped surface to jump unnaturally high. Using grenade and rocket explosions to propel yourself is one of the staples of speedrunning (and widely used in multiplayer too, of course), and even enemy projectiles and attacks can be used for the same purpose (like riding a Shambler's lightning bolt for a little extra speed).

All those things in Quake are technically exploits since they were never intended by the developers, but somehow they became an essential, natural part of the game. There are no hard rules for exploits, because while some of them add an additional element of skill to the game, others just fuck things up and make everyone unhappy. Using dispensers in TF2 to reach places that you aren't supposed to is cool, but leaving the boundaries of the map to build sentry guns in places where they can't be seen or easily destroyed is just lame.

 

[Gamer137]

Starcraft really is the best game ever. Keep preaching.

Gliches are a hit-and-miss for me. I like them in Starcraft online play(on a reasonable level), but hate them in most shooters. I really dont have an exact criteria I guess.