Quantum Mechanics/Bioshock Infinite- Is there something to this many worlds theory?

[DudeistBelieve]

Basically, my question is to Escapist, is there any truth to this many world theory? That here where I make a choice in another I do an opposite?

Because heres my thought then, is the hope then that even when things are bad it means in an alternate universe things are going good?

Is there something to the law of averages? Because I like to think if there is an infinite number of me out there, one of them is at least smart enough and imaginative enough to break all of reality? And wouldnt that be true of everyone if the many worlds theory is true?

What is your thoughts on the many worlds theory, escapist?

 

[Fraught]

Basically, my question is to Escapist, is there any truth to this many world theory? That here where I make a choice in another I do an opposite?

Maybe, maybe not. We can't travel between dimensions yet, we don't know.

Because heres my thought then, is the hope then that even when things are bad it means in an alternate universe things are going good?

Yes. You are literally, objectively, inarguably the happiest man in the world in one of those universes.

Is there something to the law of averages? Because I like to think if there is an infinite number of me out there, one of them is at least smart enough and imaginative enough to break all of reality? And wouldnt that be true of everyone if the many worlds theory is true?

There's a case to be made for whether infinite universes entails that all of them have to adhere to the same physics laws and you can "break all of reality" (whatever you even meant by that), or whether the infinite part entails any and every variation of laws. I go by the latter, so my answer is yes, one of you in another universe has "broken reality" (and if it's happened in one, it's happened in an infinite number of other universes too, with all of them having slightly varying events preceding this breaking of reality.

And yes, it is true of everyone.

What is your thoughts on the many worlds theory, escapist?

Overall, besides what I said above, I don't really know what to think about it. No one's proven it to be true. It might be true, it might not. Personally, I don't see much point in, or reason to, believe that every variation of every action is represented in an infinite string of universes. It's an interesting theory, but I don't...think there's a reason to believe multiple 'existences' exist, so to speak. We've already got a nigh infinite existence, let's stick to it.

All in all, to answer your whole question about it, you must stress to yourself that the universes are, indeed, infinite. There's not a set number of universes, there is literally a never-ending quantity of universes that can't ever run out, so there's no amount of variables in the life of everyone who's ever existed that infinity can't account for.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Basically, my question is to Escapist, is there any truth to this many world theory? That here where I make a choice in another I do an opposite?

Maybe, maybe not. We can't travel between dimensions yet, we don't know.

Because heres my thought then, is the hope then that even when things are bad it means in an alternate universe things are going good?

Yes. You are literally, objectively, inarguably the happiest man in the world in one of those universes.

Is there something to the law of averages? Because I like to think if there is an infinite number of me out there, one of them is at least smart enough and imaginative enough to break all of reality? And wouldnt that be true of everyone if the many worlds theory is true?

There's a case to be made for whether infinite universes entails that all of them have to adhere to the same physics laws and you can "break all of reality" (whatever you even meant by that), or whether the infinite part entails any and every variation of laws. I go by the latter, so my answer is yes, one of you in another universe has "broken reality" (and if it's happened in one, it's happened in an infinite number of other universes too, with all of them having slightly varying events preceding this breaking of reality.

And yes, it is true of everyone.

What is your thoughts on the many worlds theory, escapist?

Overall, besides what I said above, I don't really know what to think about it. No one's proven it to be true. It might be true, it might not. Personally, I don't see much point in, or reason to, believe that every variation of every action is represented in an infinite string of universes. It's an interesting theory, but I don't...think there's a reason to believe multiple 'existences' exist, so to speak. We've already got a nigh infinite existence, let's stick to it.

All in all, to answer your whole question about it, you must stress to yourself that the universes are, indeed, infinite. There's not a set number of universes, there is literally a never-ending quantity of universes that can't ever run out, so there's no amount of variables in the life of everyone who's ever existed that infinity can't account for.

Okay, and I thank you for thinking so deeply on the subject,

If it is infact true, then than that mean logically somewhere in the infinity verse there is a version of me that has a Tardis and the reality breaking MASK of Darkhorse comics. I'm being entirely serious, so if the infinite world theory is true there is always hope a version of me can possibly arrive and save this version of myself.

Again this is the paradox, because isn't it just as likely that one of everyones infinite dopplegangers has the potential save them?

 

[Fraught]

*snip*

Okay, and I thank you for thinking so deeply on the subject,

If it is infact true, then than that mean logically somewhere in the infinity verse there is a version of me that has a Tardis and the reality breaking MASK of Darkhorse comics. I'm being entirely serious, so if the infinite world theory is true there is always hope a version of me can possibly arrive and save this version of myself.

Again this is the paradox, because isn't it just as likely that one of everyones infinite dopplegangers has the potential save them?

Yeah. The multiverse theory is a paradox if you incorporate travel between them into it. If an alternate reality version of you comes to visit you in this universe we live in, then, by proxy of there being an infinite number of universes, there is also an infinite number of alternate reality yous that will come and visit you, at the exact same time, in every square nanometre of the world. And this will happen in every alternate reality in existence, whether the you local to that universe is present there or not.

If you add any kind of overlap to these multiverses, it gets kind of paradoxical and infinitely complex. Infinity is not really a concept we can comprehend, and it's hard to imagine a scenario where interdimensional travel is possible, and as a result will be possible in an infinite number of universes, thus sending an infinite number of people travelling from universe to universe, into an infinite amount of places at infinite amount of instances in time.

And the fact that not even one of those alternate reality versions of us has travelled to our Earth yet either proves that a) hopping between these universes is impossible or b) there is only just this one universe, ours, and no other alternate universes.

And yes, in a flux of infinite universes, there is a universe that has had its culture form in the exact same way as ours, with the same Doctor Who show, the same Tardis, the same Dark Horse comics and the same MASK, and you are in possession of it.

Hell, there's an infinite number of universes where you have a Tardis and MASK.

 

[skywolfblue]

Nobody's been able to prove or disprove Hugh Everett's Many Worlds theory so far. It's a theory that fits some things nicely, but only a theory at the moment.

The Bioshock Infinite takes a pretty loose interpretation that makes for good storytelling, but poor physics.

Because heres my thought then, is the hope then that even when things are bad it means in an alternate universe things are going good?

Even if Many Worlds were proven true, the chances of ever being able to actually interact on a macro (AKA, human sized) level with that other reality is highly implausible. So it's more likely that multiple universes, even if they do exist, will never be more real and tangible to us then our own imagination.

What is your thoughts on the many worlds theory, escapist?

It would be interesting if it gets proven. As it is I think people get too fanciful about it, so I'm more in the "Skeptical" camp.

 

[Flutterguy]

No. It is one of those theories that while interesting, has no information to support it. The theory is loved by pseudo-intellectuals who want seem enlightened because they know something you don't.

If there was a truly infinite number of universes and we were capable of going from one to the other, we would already have been met/contacted. This has not happened.

It's like time-travel, if time-travel was ever possible in a controllable manner we would know already.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

Interesting concept, no practical or predictive utility, and doesn't appear to be falsifiable, so it's entertaining but I'd never subscribe to it.

If you take the interpretation than everytime you collapse a quantum waveform into a single eigenstate (e.g. looking to see whether the cat is dead or not) then actually you split the universe, with a different world for each state, then this raise interesting problems.

If you measure the spin state of an electron in the x-direction, that becomes fixed. You'll always measure the same state. Unless, you measure the spin in the z-direction and then measure the spin in x again. That time it may have changed. If you subscribe to the many worlds theory, just what the hell happens in that situation?

 

[Shymer]

Some things to consider. Choices are seldom binary. Fish don't make choices. The number of humans is increasing, but finite. Can time and evolution work faster than they do? We are all products of our time, biology and upbringing.

The idea that there is something special about a choice you make - so special that it creates a branching universe where you decided something different breaks down when you think of what happened before humans. Also degrades the power of sacrifice, the value of others and the importance of making good moral choices.

The idea of an Earth-prime with parallel universes is a fun, albeit common conceit in fiction. From Star Trek mirror universe, to Sliding Doors, to Nine Princes in Amber. It allows us to explore themes of choice, destiny, pre-determination, uniqueness and engage in fantasies about power and control.

If you feel you need saving now than I would suggest looking at yourself, your resources and those of the people you know and where you are now rather than speculating about an imaginary place where you are happy and powerful and somehow inclined to worry about the infinite "versions of you" that need rescuing. Fantasy only takes you so far.

Why do you need saving? I cannot break reality and I don't own a (full size) TARDIS, but unlike your fictional alter ego people on this bulletin board do exist and can help.

 

[Something Amyss]

BSI doesn't seem to understand the many worlds theory, and its plot demonstrates that. In their version of the many worlds theory, you might always be destined, effectively, to be unhappy no matter the choices you make (more on choice in a moment). The resolution of the game points towards this as necessity, despite the lack of logic if there truly is an infinite number of universes.

Of course, they also undermined themselves by solving things by dealing with a later branching choice. But narrative wasn't the strong point of BSI, apparently.

Also, since choices often aren't truly binary, you have to keep in mind it's possible that many different versions of the same choice are made, and they may be all negative (in some instances) or mostly negative (in others). The same can be true of positive choices, but the question asked pertained to alternate you making good decisions if you made bad ones so my focus is there.

The idea that there is something special about a choice you make - so special that it creates a branching universe where you decided something different breaks down when you think of what happened before humans.

Many Worlds Theory doesn't deal just with choice, however. It deals with all possible outcomes of events. In fact, it's been used to argue the existence of life as we know it in the first place: this is one of many outcomes in which the world (as we know it) just happens to be in the right (as we would define it) place around the right (as we would define it) star. Barring there actually being some sort of creator deity or cosmic intellect, that really has nothing to do with choices.

Choices we make as people and the outcomes of such are just another function of all possible outcomes branching into their own universes (to pare it down to a succinct description).

 

[Pinkamena]

As a person who actually study the subject of quantum mechanics, let me explain with a crash course.

The "Many Worlds Theory" is not a scientific theory, and its actual name is the Many Worlds Interpretation. It's a philosophical idea, stemming from the odd behavior of the quantum world. Every particle does not have well-defined characteristics, but instead has what's called probability distributions. The simplest way to explain it, is to look at a subatomic particle, like an electron, confined to a small area (Think of this electron in a tiny little "box". In actuality it's potential well, an area where the electron is confined in space). We're used to thinking of objects having well-defined position and velocity. As an analogy to the electron in the potential well, we can put a marble in a cardbox. Then, we simply point at it and say "the marble is there". If we give the box a push, the marble would start moving and we could measure its velocity very precisely.

With the electron, it's not as simple, as it does not have a well-defined velocity or position. If we try to measure its position or velocity, we will get different values each time! If we do enough measurements of for example the position of the electron(actually has to be a single measurement on many identical systems, but that's details) we will find that it has a certain position it prefers (we will have most measurements of its position return this value), but the measurements may also return many other positions with lower probability (we will have fewer measurements of these positions). This is what's called the Probability Distribution of the electrons position.

The Many-World Interpretation postulates that every time someone do a measurement on this electron, an infinite number of universes are spawned, each returning different values for the position of the electron. So an infinite amount universes are spawned every time a particle or other quantum mechanical system interacts with its surroundings and its waveform (analogous to the probability distribution in this simple explanation) collapses into a single, real value.

I guess this was maybe a little more theoretical than what you wanted, but I think its good to know the underlying thoughts behind it.

Spoiler: from wikipedia

The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction and denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). In lay terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large?perhaps infinite[2]?number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes. The theory is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many-worlds.

 

[cerebus23]

Its highly probable that our universe is made up of many dimensions, most "GUT" theories or grand unified theories, mostly dealing with string physics, rely and hold up only under multiple dimensions, its the exact number that is unknown because you can arrive at the same place via different numbers get the exact same predictions.

You need something along the lines of a black hole to harness enough power to open a rift between dimensions using worm holes or immense gravemetirc or electromagnetic fields. And even at that you would not bnecessarilly go bouncing around betwen them because that other dimension may have vastly different properties than our own, most dimensions would likely be completely dead with nothing in them. other would have reverse physics or anti gravity etc. hitting a universe like yours would probably be a more improbable thing but the possibility is out there.

 

[Pink Gregory]

words

Recommended reading for you - H.P.Lovecraft & E. Hoffman Price : Through the Gates of the Silver Key.

 

[Hoplon]

Its highly probable that our universe is made up of many dimensions, most "GUT" theories or grand unified theories, mostly dealing with string physics, rely and hold up only under multiple dimensions, its the exact number that is unknown because you can arrive at the same place via different numbers get the exact same predictions.

You need something along the lines of a black hole to harness enough power to open a rift between dimensions using worm holes or immense gravemetirc or electromagnetic fields. And even at that you would not bnecessarilly go bouncing around betwen them because that other dimension may have vastly different properties than our own, most dimensions would likely be completely dead with nothing in them. other would have reverse physics or anti gravity etc. hitting a universe like yours would probably be a more improbable thing but the possibility is out there.

Meany worlds has nothing to do with dimensions. See pinkamena's post for a much more concise explanation.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I like the idea, even though I have no idea how it works. Seriously, if different choices lead to different turnouts, would only major events count? Eh, like I said, I like the idea, don't care fr the math involved.

 

[Megazuurkool]

Since you live in this universe, you are going to have to deal with the consequences of your actions in this one. Saying your actions won't matter because in another universe the opposite happens, is really illogical.

 

[cerebus23]

Its highly probable that our universe is made up of many dimensions, most "GUT" theories or grand unified theories, mostly dealing with string physics, rely and hold up only under multiple dimensions, its the exact number that is unknown because you can arrive at the same place via different numbers get the exact same predictions.

You need something along the lines of a black hole to harness enough power to open a rift between dimensions using worm holes or immense gravemetirc or electromagnetic fields. And even at that you would not bnecessarilly go bouncing around betwen them because that other dimension may have vastly different properties than our own, most dimensions would likely be completely dead with nothing in them. other would have reverse physics or anti gravity etc. hitting a universe like yours would probably be a more improbable thing but the possibility is out there.

Meany worlds has nothing to do with dimensions. See pinkamena's post for a much more concise explanation.

I guess i tend to look at many worlds more like a time issue, they just scale up his waveform to our level and say something along the lines any possible action i can take has multiple outcomes and that each possibility may play out in its own "time."

From the mundane of did i have coke or pepsi for breakfast this morning to did the nazis win the second world war. these alternate worlds would be created constantly, each near death experience we all have individually would be a real death for at lest one of your timelines.

I think the possibility of other dimensions existing in the same space is very real, Our earth existing withing a number of universes with maybe different outcomes depending on the unique features of each universe it is linked to. if beings were visiting here from other places other dimensions would be a far more likely candidate than aliens from another planet. they would be living on other earths in other dimensions and hopping across those dimensions to neighbor earths is a possibility.

Movement of 4th dimensions object does fit some behaviors of ufos with the mind bending acceleration the turns the disappearing and reappearing would all be possible via beings that were looking in from higher dimensions, as viewed by us 3 dimensional beings.

 

[renegade7]

Many worlds is not a theory, per se. It is an interpretation of uncertainty, that a particle is in every possible state at once until it is observed directly. Therefore, a consequence could be that there is a parallel universe for every single possible state of every single particle in the universe.

Moving between parallel universes would not be a matter of getting into a spaceship and somehow blasting off into another one. Rather, it would be the consequence of directly influencing the state that a particle can be in. As it is currently understood, this is impossible, as it would violate uncertainty.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Probably not, but it's a cool idea.

It's very useful for sci-fi and it can be used on many levels. Infinite is one of the slightly more scientific ones, but still not extremely heavy on it. Essentially, you travel universes, some shit changes, some shit stays the same. Constants and variables as the Luteces like to say.

 

[GonvilleBromhead]

I was always under the impression that the "every choice you make, the other choice is played out in an other universe" thing was more or less a way that actions occurring at a quantum level can be understood, then further simplified into a manner that a non-scientist would understand. In much the same way the Copenhagen interpretation isn't a reliable way of cloning a cat...