Quentin Tarantino a misogynist?

[Soviet Heavy]

From Inglourious Basterds alone, I determine that he is not misogynistic. The two female actors in those movies were made into badasses while remaining true as women.

When we see powerful women in gaming media for example, they are always seen as powerful because they are taking on male roles.

Shosanna and Bridget actually act like women, and they are very adept at being badass in their own way.

Bridget is a double agent, and not a fighter, and Shosanna is a brilliant mastermind behind a deadly trap.

 

[Lokithrsourcerer]

The thing about QT is his films are about films.

if any of them are misogynist it is probably intended as a take on a film genre that was.
Many of his films are essentially parodies and homages to things like black-sploitation films, samurai, western and B-movies that he grew up on.
The complex meanings in his films are not necessarily about religion, politics etc but are all about films, film making and cinematography

In short no I don't believe he is misogynist

EDIT afterthought: although I could certainly see why someone might think that he was. In actual fact his catalogue includes both strong and weak, sexulised and un-sexulised, female and male characters.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Sorry, in what way does Uma Thurman ruthlessly and systematically killing a load of dudes constitute a victim?

 

[Lokithrsourcerer]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Sorry, in what way does Uma Thurman ruthlessly and systematically killing a load of dudes constitute a victim?

because her and her baby are shot dead, she survives then after her comatose body is raped by a series of dirty men in hospital it is only then she wakes up and goes on the killing spree.

I'm not saying I agree with the comment though but I can understand how it could be perceived that way. besides Uma Thurman wrote her own part in that movie.

The fact is QT's characters are more complex than that most of them have dominant and victimised elements to them and many of them are "borrowed" from existing media as I said in a previous post most of his work is in the realm of homage.

 

[sheah1]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Sorry, in what way does Uma Thurman ruthlessly and systematically killing a load of dudes constitute a victim?

The reason why she does all of that. You know, the brutal, horrifying gang beating she suffers. Hell, apart from "Vernita" the first we see her kill (who isn't even significant enough to warrant an origin) every other significant female character has suffered some sort of horror. In fact, if you really want to get into it, Uma Therman is brutally tortured by every significant male character as well.

 

[WayOutThere]

From Inglourious Basterds alone, I determine that he is not misogynistic. The two female actors in those movies were made into badasses while remaining true as women.

When we see powerful women in gaming media for example, they are always seen as powerful because they are taking on male roles.

Shosanna and Bridget actually act like women, and they are very adept at being badass in their own way.

Bridget is a double agent, and not a fighter, and Shosanna is a brilliant mastermind behind a deadly trap.

That's good, useful information.

thanks

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

How does that follow? The two, strong female leads and female victims, are not mutually contradictory. They get hurt (as to all characters in action movies) but they get back up again and kick but. I would think that to empower women the women in his movies must have something to overcome. Elsewise how would an empowering message be presented? That they have physical violence against them to overcome is irrelevent. I think your falling for what this guy is talking about:

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

Edit:

every other significant female character has suffered some sort of horror.

You'd have that changed? I guess you like your movies boring. Once a man makes a movie with a lot of complex, well fleshed-out female characters he gets accused of misogyny. Nice.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Yes, but the women in his films react well to the difficult situation they're in. Although they've been made a victim, they haven't shown any weakness. If not stronger, Tarantino's female characters are certaintly portrayed as smarter than his male ones.

 

[sheah1]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

How does that follow? The two, strong female leads and female victims, are not mutually contradictory. They get hurt (as to all characters in action movies) but they get back up again and kick but. I would think that to empower women the women in his movies must have something to overcome. Elsewise how would an empowering message be presented? That they have physical violence against them to overcome is irrelevent. I think your falling for what this guy is talking about:

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

[/quote]

Well I admit this isn't my point (it's my sister's) and she put it much better than me, but, to contradict dathwampeer's point, look at Kill Bill, every single significant female character (aka: any female who got more than five minutes of screen time) has to go through some sort of horrendous trial for no apparent reason other than they're female, unlike the male characters, who are just badasses, no real explanation, they're just badass, now why couldn't Lucy Liu's character have just been badass, why did she have to go through her horrendous childhood?
P.S. These aren't my personal views, I'm simply not able to look that deep into a movie, these are just possible views.
P.P.S. Watch from Dusk till Dawn, there's not a single female character in that who isn't either a stereotype or a rape victim.

 

[sheah1]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Yes, but the women in his films react well to the difficult situation they're in. Although they've been made a victim, they haven't shown any weakness. If not stronger, Tarantino's female characters are certaintly portrayed as smarter than his male ones.

From Inglourious Basterds alone, I determine that he is not misogynistic. The two female actors in those movies were made into badasses while remaining true as women.

When we see powerful women in gaming media for example, they are always seen as powerful because they are taking on male roles.

Shosanna and Bridget actually act like women, and they are very adept at being badass in their own way.

Bridget is a double agent, and not a fighter, and Shosanna is a brilliant mastermind behind a deadly trap.

That's good, useful information.

thanks

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

How does that follow? The two, strong female leads and female victims, are not mutually contradictory. They get hurt (as to all characters in action movies) but they get back up again and kick but. I would think that to empower women the women in his movies must have something to overcome. Elsewise how would an empowering message be presented? That they have physical violence against them to overcome is irrelevent. I think your falling for what this guy is talking about:

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

I messed up that quoting somehow....

 

[sheah1]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Yes, but the women in his films react well to the difficult situation they're in. Although they've been made a victim, they haven't shown any weakness. If not stronger, Tarantino's female characters are certaintly portrayed as smarter than his male ones.

From Inglourious Basterds alone, I determine that he is not misogynistic. The two female actors in those movies were made into badasses while remaining true as women.

When we see powerful women in gaming media for example, they are always seen as powerful because they are taking on male roles.

Shosanna and Bridget actually act like women, and they are very adept at being badass in their own way.

Bridget is a double agent, and not a fighter, and Shosanna is a brilliant mastermind behind a deadly trap.

That's good, useful information.

thanks

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

How does that follow? The two, strong female leads and female victims, are not mutually contradictory. They get hurt (as to all characters in action movies) but they get back up again and kick but. I would think that to empower women the women in his movies must have something to overcome. Elsewise how would an empowering message be presented? That they have physical violence against them to overcome is irrelevent. I think your falling for what this guy is talking about:

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

I messed up that quoting somehow....

Sorry for the weird ass posting..... Really sorry..... I think I broke something....

 

[sheah1]

Well as my sister put it, he doesn't create strong female leads, he creates female victims, so at the very least he's misrepresented as someone who empowers women when he in fact doesn't.

Yes, but the women in his films react well to the difficult situation they're in. Although they've been made a victim, they haven't shown any weakness. If not stronger, Tarantino's female characters are certaintly portrayed as smarter than his male ones.

Fair point, but why do the women have to go through such suffering in the first place, unlike the men, who're given free badass passes, equality an' all.

Yeah that point is a little trollish, sorry.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

The word misogynist is thrown around a lot these days because people for some reason now lump womanizing into misogyny, and I think whoever asked this question is guilty of this. Quentin most definitely is not a misogynist. If anything he throws women into nontraditional roles because he prefers to look at them, which I don't think has anything to do with hatred.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I would say that there is little evidence that he is a misogynist. Just looking over the list of his more famous female leads:

The Bride (Kill Bill) - the Deadliest assassin in a group known for being comprised of deadly assassins. She is an expert martial artist and remorseless killer. Her role is, initially, subservient to that of Bill. Upon finding out she is pregnant, she finds a higher purpose in protecting her offspring from the evil that would otherwise be nipping at her heels. When running away does not work (she is beaten and shot in the head by her former compatriots) she vows revenge for reasons that include professional obligation (a masculine rationalization), personal vengeance (gender neutral), and for her child (a feminine rationalization). As a whole, her character is more masculine than feminine (brutal fights with edged weapons (the sword in particular being notable in this regard) but her reasons for acting are fairly gender neutral.

Jackie Brown (From Jackie Brown) - A stewardess who uses her position to smuggle money. The movie consists of cross and double cross in rapid succession with Jackie often pulling the strings. While she is not afraid to use her gender to help with the process, it never becomes a crutch.

Shosanna (Inglourious Basterds) - her family is killed during an SS raid. She takes on a new identity and eventually uses her position as part of a ruse to kill top ranking Nazi officials and hopefully end the war early. Her actions allow the Basterds to follow through with their own plot to kill the high ranking Germans. Here again gender is used to manipulate those around her but never as a crutch.

Mia Wallace (Pulp Fiction) - The wife of Marcellus Wallace. She is revealed to be a woman of conviction (she believes people can be classified into groups based on their musical preferences). During her segment, there is obvious chemistry and sexual tension between her and Vincent Vega though it is revealed that Vega has the greatest trouble dealing with the problem. Due to odd packaging, she mistakes heroine for cocaine and overdoes forcing Vega to resuscitate her. Both are, ultimately, relieved at this turn of events because even though Mia's life was on the line, her overdose ensured she and Vega wouldn't do anything silly. She does show a traditional feminine weakness in this regard (fear of the husband), but in this case it is justified given Marcellus' proclivity for murder.

While three out of four of these characters are easily despicable people it is not because they are women but rather because they are in a movie surrounded by equally despicable (if not outright worse) people. Only in the last case is a stereotypical female weakness a major plot point and even then there is justification for it beyond gender.

With respect to the point people have made about "Female Victims" I would point out that just because they come to harm does not make them a victim. In the most notable cases (Inglourious Basterds, Kill Bill), the female characters refuse to be a victim as a result of circumstance and endeavor simply to fight harder the next time around.

 

[twistedmic]

He also makes them unrelenting asshloles.

The only god male character is Pie-mae or whatever he was called. And he was certainly an asshole. Definitely in for the tough love approach.

That may not be entirely true. Hatori Hanzo and his assistant were both good males, though they did have moments of assholery. The waiter/manager of the House of Blue Leaves was another good (non-murdering prick asshole) character. And the yakuza/cray 88 from the fight at the House of Blue Leaves could even be considered good but misguided character given that we don't know if he's ever committed any crimes.

 

[sheah1]

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

Well I admit this isn't my point (it's my sister's) and she put it much better than me, but, to contradict dathwampeer's point, look at Kill Bill, every single significant female character (aka: any female who got more than five minutes of screen time) has to go through some sort of horrendous trial for no apparent reason other than they're female, unlike the male characters, who are just badasses, no real explanation, they're just badass, now why couldn't Lucy Liu's character have just been badass, why did she have to go through her horrendous childhood?
P.S. These aren't my personal views, I'm simply not able to look that deep into a movie, these are just possible views.
P.P.S. Watch from Dusk till Dawn, there's not a single female character in that who isn't either a stereotype or a rape victim.

He also makes them unrelenting asshloles.

Name me a good male character in Kill Bill. Even the little backdrop characters are all seedy, disengenuous users and abusers. The male nurse who sells her off as a prostitute when she's in a comma.

All the males in the film are enemies. most for no other reason than because they're dicks. Or because they just decided to betray her.

The only god male character is Pie-mae or whatever he was called. And he was certainly an asshole. Definitely in for the tough love approach.

The reason he gives them tragic back stories is because it's his way of justifying their actions. Even the enemies have a good excuse for being as they are.

It's his way of purifying the character.

Do you think we could empathise with any of them if it was just. 'She's badass. Get over it.'?

That's how I see it anyway.

Fair point, but everyone in this thread really needs to watch From Dusk till Dawn....... which was a Rodriguez film..... I feel silly..... Anyway...... Um..... Huh. Yes, you have a brilliant point..... Even with the female badasses, they need to overcome difficulty and start off as victims because, for example, Uma Therman isn't a very obviously badass person and you can't simply send the "she's badass" vibe through her appearance or stature alone such as with Bill's character, in fact it's actually slightly progressive since the easy way out would be to make her really slutty looking or stereotypical or something.

Although Quentin Tarantino is still a massive douchey dick.

 

[kane.malakos]

I would actually argue that Quentin Tarantino's characters are almost all morally ambiguous. Even the ones with good reasons are cruel, brutal and violent. Kill Bill is a pretty good example. The Bride has legitimate reasons for her "roaring rampage of revenge," but that doesn't change the fact that she murders probably hundreds of people. Bill shot her in the head and left her to die, but it was because he thought she had betrayed him. Pai Mei is an amazing teacher, but he is not a good person by any stretch of the imagination. Hell, he murdered an entire temple full of monks because one of them didn't return his greeting. Hanzo is a pretty nice guy, but he was a killer before he retired.

OT: I don't think he's particularly misogynistic. He doesn't portray women as weak or inferior, he doesn't display them as nothing but sex objects. While many of them are flawed, that is part of their character, not part of their gender. The Bride may be a murderous psychopath, but so are half the characters in Kill Bill. In my opinion he actually writes some very good female characters.

 

[sheah1]

It's because he treats everybody derogatorily.

Didn't you know that when everyones being treated like shit, that really means only other races and women are actually being like shit...

Get with the times man.

Well I admit this isn't my point (it's my sister's) and she put it much better than me, but, to contradict dathwampeer's point, look at Kill Bill, every single significant female character (aka: any female who got more than five minutes of screen time) has to go through some sort of horrendous trial for no apparent reason other than they're female, unlike the male characters, who are just badasses, no real explanation, they're just badass, now why couldn't Lucy Liu's character have just been badass, why did she have to go through her horrendous childhood?
P.S. These aren't my personal views, I'm simply not able to look that deep into a movie, these are just possible views.
P.P.S. Watch from Dusk till Dawn, there's not a single female character in that who isn't either a stereotype or a rape victim.

He also makes them unrelenting asshloles.

Name me a good male character in Kill Bill. Even the little backdrop characters are all seedy, disengenuous users and abusers. The male nurse who sells her off as a prostitute when she's in a comma.

All the males in the film are enemies. most for no other reason than because they're dicks. Or because they just decided to betray her.

The only god male character is Pie-mae or whatever he was called. And he was certainly an asshole. Definitely in for the tough love approach.

The reason he gives them tragic back stories is because it's his way of justifying their actions. Even the enemies have a good excuse for being as they are.

It's his way of purifying the character.

Do you think we could empathise with any of them if it was just. 'She's badass. Get over it.'?

That's how I see it anyway.

Fair point, but everyone in this thread really needs to watch From Dusk till Dawn....... which was a Rodriguez film..... I feel silly..... Anyway...... Um..... Huh. Yes, you have a brilliant point..... Even with the female badasses, they need to overcome difficulty and start off as victims because, for example, Uma Therman isn't a very obviously badass person and you can't simply send the "she's badass" vibe through her appearance or stature alone such as with Bill's character, in fact it's actually slightly progressive since the easy way out would be to make her really slutty looking or stereotypical or something.

Although Quentin Tarantino is still a massive douchey dick.

I've seen dusk til dawn. It used to be one of my favourites.

But there's only really 2 women in that film that could be considered big parts.

The 'mistress of Evil' woman who appears for like 5 minutes and pretty much rapes Clooney with her foot and the Casey... I think. And in all fairness she's quite a strong character. She starts out no worse than the other people who are in her situation. Except for the fact that Tarantino's character sexually idealises her and fantasises about 'her'. Remember that. 'Her' wanting to have sex with him.

Even though his character is reprehensible. He is still seen as the more pathetic character of the two because he is very insecure. Whereas Casey stays strong pretty much throughout and then ends up going badass an killing a load of vampires.

I don't think I can really think of any Tarantino movie that really could even be though of as misogynistic.

Sorry man, wrong director, Rodriguez rather than Tarantino (which is probably why I like it so much.....), but Casey in a lot of ways fits the sheltered little princess stereotype, at the start at the very least, but she loses everything, in a lot of ways becoming a victim of the vampires. Although she weirdly handles it better than Clooney (yeah desensitization by that point an' all but still, it had to be said), but anyway, that's Rodriguez, someone I consider to be much better (based on Planet Terror compared to Deathproof), and a hell of a lot less douchey than Tarantino.