Question About Nintendo
- Thread starter VG_Addict
- Start date
Recommended Videos
I think Nintendo works a lot differently then Many devs. So I'm not sure if the same Nintendo Magic would be in the game if it was third party. Wario Ware was made with out the Nintendo heads Knowledge. Could you imagine doing extra work for your company and your, while also creating a New I.P. I think some companies would fire you and take your work
The reason is simple.. if you buy a Nintendo consoles all you'll get is Nintendo games since more and third party developers are rightfully abandoning the Wii U. If you buy a PS3/PS4 or a 360/xbone then you'll get their consoles exclusive games PLUS a ton of great third part games.. I loved Nintendo's older consoles because you get get Mario, Zelda and Metroid games like Metroid Prime or Super Mario World .. but you could also get great 3rd party games like the remake of RE1 on gamecube or Castlevannia on SNES. nowadays you'd only get Nintendo games with a few scattered, badly done ports of games that are not only already on other consoles ,but the port will be inferior to the original versions.
The handful of games that Nintendo puts out during the lifetime of a console are not generally enough to warrant paying for the games AND for a console. If Nintendo produces ten games that you like, then that's something like $30 added to the price of each game. They're good games, but I wouldn't pay $90+ for games, especially not with an up-front cost of $300 (and that's without buying more controllers). It isn't that Nintendo is crap. It's that Nintendo is only one (albeit very big and high quality) development studio. I don't care what studio you are, you aren't enough to make me purchase a console. There's simply too much quality 3rd party stuff on the market, that HAS to be there too. I'd say the same thing about Sony or Microsoft or whomever else if they produced consoles that other publishers didn't make games for (either because of the console being weak or lack of agreements).VG_Addict said:
So what I usually do is wait for about four years into the cycle before buying the console. Then I get the console and the first four years of games at a reduced cost. It all then sort of evens out in the end.
Getting those games on other consoles would enable me to get all my desired entertainment at one price and in one place. As is, the Wii and WiiU are a hassle to purchase and to allow to take up space in my living room. They have tremendously little 3rd party support and the WiiU has been absolutely terrible with first party launches this time around compared with other consoles. They've done a few really good ones but 3 or 4 titles isn't nearly enough through the first year after launch. At launch, sure, but not the entire year after the launch and several months. I think Sony and Microsoft had a really weak offering at the start of their launch. If they're the same way by the end of next year I'll be harping on them too. But I've seen the games Sony at least has planned for the first year and it swallows WiiU's actual performance whole. If they can deliver, then shame on Nintendo and they'll lose my position of best development studio to Sony. Sony has been gaining a lot of ground there since the ps1. If I were honest I'd say Sony already produces more games I want to buy and play. Would I prefer a game like The Last of Us to New Super Mario Bros U? Yeah, yeah I would. But Nintendo is holding on by the thinnest thread of nostalgia and I think this generation will conquer it if nothing much changes.
Within the same amount of time after the Wii's launch (2006-2007)they had Wii Sports/play/fit, Zelda, WarioWare smooth moves, Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Strikers Charged (if you care about that game at all, I'm just including Nintendo games with high 70 metas or better), Battalion Wars 2, Fire Emblem, Super Paper Mario, Mario Party 8 and even a few low quality cash grabs (Donkey Kong Barrel Blast, Link's Crossbow Training and Pokemon Battle Revolution). All of this was bolstered by an innovative control scheme that even the elderly could easily pick up(which is no longer new and the gamepad isn't cutting it) and they had decent 3rd party support with games that weren't necessarily good but were a draw like Red Steel and No More Heroes. The WiiU just isn't cutting the muster and I think the reason is that they thought all those big name ported games would sell huge. But they didn't because they'd all been out for months by the time the WiiU launched.
True, and THEIR console basically has to be a stripped down PC with little to nothing to differentiate itself from the competition. Seriously, what exactly IS the point with consoles if they're mistakenly trying to emulate PCs? They're never going to BE PCs, so best to just drop the idea.McMarbles said:
actually most of the argument I see from friends is that if Nintendo allowed their games to be released on more powerful consoles the graphics would look much better and other publishers would be able to get away from the kid friendly image they have
one of my friends even says that if Zelda were to come out on PS4, it wouldn't have to put up with all the kiddy stuff and it would be like a God of War + Skyrim game that looks next gen, because currently Nintendo is working with last gen graphics.
to me this would signify the end of Zelda series as my favorite series since a lot of the things I like about it mainly revolve around the fact that it stands on its own and doesn't try to copy any other games. Same goes for Mario, Metroid, etc.
so yeah from what I have gathered:
1. better graphics
2. more violent/graphic content would be allowed... I guess Pikmin would burst into puddles of blood and guts instead of little ghost?
one of my friends even says that if Zelda were to come out on PS4, it wouldn't have to put up with all the kiddy stuff and it would be like a God of War + Skyrim game that looks next gen, because currently Nintendo is working with last gen graphics.
to me this would signify the end of Zelda series as my favorite series since a lot of the things I like about it mainly revolve around the fact that it stands on its own and doesn't try to copy any other games. Same goes for Mario, Metroid, etc.
so yeah from what I have gathered:
1. better graphics
2. more violent/graphic content would be allowed... I guess Pikmin would burst into puddles of blood and guts instead of little ghost?
I don't think it'd be in Nintendo's best interest, yet. But I don't have a God's eye view on their market position and their strategy going forward. They have a huge stockpile of money and if they pump that into developing a console that can actually compete with the big boys then they can have Nintendo + full 3rd party support and a comparative cost. Nintendo stands to make a lot of money if they hit another successful console. We saw the N64 and gamecube losing significant amounts of market share and it was the Wii's innovative control mechanic that saved them. So maybe their first party software is no longer good enough for adults to continue to purchase. That being said, I also think that Nintendo found their niche last generation. They had a really cheap console that was easy to understand and use. That opened it up to all kinds of gamers from the elderly who hadn't even been considered a target market to casual gamers who prefer the excellent party lineup Nintendo provies. With the WiiU, they made the thing more complex with the gamepad and more expensive because of the gamepad (it's $140 to make the gamepad by itself). They meant it as a differentiator but it turned out we just didn't need or want it and developers didn't figure out a reason for it to exist which explains why it has become a glorified minimap in so many games. I think they could drop the gamepad and do a bit better going forward with a price reduction and patches to support software made so far.VG_Addict said:
I think making some of their older titles available on pc and other consoles may be nice. People steal them on PC anyways, so they might as well sell games older than the gamecube elsewhere (selling software that is too new may cannibalize sales of titles that are just coming out). Since those games hold up so well, it could serve as advertisement to get more gamers into Nintendo products.
As things are right now, maintaining the console isn't all that beneficial to them. The ps3/360 markets can generally play the games that Nintendo has made so far (Nintendo games aren't traditionally graphically demanding). That's only important because those markets constitute something like 160 million consoles compared to the WiiU's 5 million. A 10% attach rate for the WiiU would be 500k units sold. A 10% attach rate for the 360/ps3 would be 16 million units sold. If Nintendo can't get enough market share in the console market then it will be worth their time at some point. New Super Mario Bros has a crazy high attach rate on the WiiU of around 65% as the consoles biggest seller. On the WiiU that's 3.46 million units. It wouldn't have gotten 65% in the overall market. But like I said, just 10% would sell 4.6 time what it sold on the WiiU and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 10% of gamers would purchase that game if they had the chance.
The question is how much money that translates into vs how much money Nintendo gets from all the non-first party. If the equation is more for them to be 3rd party and is likely to continue to be more then it does suit their needs. However, if they make another console in the near future that sells like the Wii, then they'd likely make a ton of more money and going third party in the meantime would weaken the demand for future Nintendo consoles (hypothetically, it could also just increase demand since their games ARE good). But this generation they're taking a hit on every console they sell and aren't selling very many units of software (they have only 4 games that have sold over a million and one more that is close to it). The best selling non-Nintendo game is ZombieU which was a launch title and has only sold just over 620k units. That's not good, fyi, and is why companies aren't supporting the WiiU. For most of the year, Nintendo only had two titles over a million. Both of which were included in major bundles for the console and one current major bundle has actually been including two games that are in the top five (New Super Mario and Luigi). Compare that to the PS4 which has only been out for a couple months and already has 5 titles at over a million. Personally, I think Sony's launch was relatively weak. But the 3rd party software has really propped it up as only one of those IPs are Sony (Killzone, which is a beautiful game).
For Nintendo fans, them switching to third party would be excellent. There is no downside for us as fans to be able to purchase the Nintendo Software brand on our PCs, PS4/XBOs. There's a reason why people buy a WiiU even though third party support is near null. So there is a demand for it.
It looks ok. It's like they spread out the previous generation's first year into two. If someone has to choose between a console that only has Nintendo products vs a console that has first party games and the wealth of 3rd party games then they really should go for whatever console 3rd party developers are producing. There's just so many more 3rd party games because that's hundreds if not thousands of studios making games whereas Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are only one big publisher each. With Sony doing as good of a job at first-party development as Nintendo while also having 3rd party support, I would never buy a WiiU for myself if I could only get one. I would buy a WiiU for a young kid though. I think Nintendo has a really good niche with the young, elderly, and casual community. They largely damaged their niche by pursuing the hardcore market so heavily this generation and the way they did it.
Likewise, I'm one of those old Nintendo fans that have been playing since the beginning. Frankly, I'm a little tired of the same old cast. The games are still fun, but I'm not nearly as excited about MK8 than I was about Pikmin 3. A game which I won't be purchasing until the number of games I want makes sense to buy the console. I'm not even cash strapped, I'm just not willing to make a bad deal. Whereas, if these games were available on the pc or other consoles that I own, I'd buy it right now.
It's a bit more than that.GZGoten said:
It's not that we necessarily want more graphic content. It's that the average console gamer is in their 30's (the most recent average age dropped because it included iOS/android gamers). I'm up for the occasional kiddy joy that is most Mario games just like I'm up for some cartoons (I love me some Last Airbender). But the majority of my entertainment is catered to my age. At my age, I enjoy more adult themes. I don't mean nudity or anything crass (though people who do want those are entitled to them). I just mean adult in that the themes are entended for a mature audience about the evils and struggles of this world and overcoming them. Whether that be murder or war or whatever. Comedies like Community, dramas like Breaking Bad, etc. Things kids typically wouldn't enjoy or shouldn't watch. But still things that can be fun.
The better graphics are nice. It adds a wow factor that is impressive and anyone who looks at a beautiful scene and says "Ugh, graphics" is generally just following a social trend against the average view. But it's not that we want Nintendo's existing IPs to be made graphic. We like those IPs. It's just that we want the WiiU to cater to our needs too and it simply isn't. It's only a family friendly console for the vast majority of the time with a few outliers thrown our way.
But, honestly, a dark and brooding Mario storyline would be interesting. Imagine an stubbly Mario detective trying to track down a kidnapper/murderer whose current victim is Madame Peach and it's only a matter of time before she's murdered. A modern take on the traditional storyline for sure. It could be very interesting. I'm not talking about replacing the other IPs, I'm talking in addition to them.
But graphic violence? That's just one of many things that a mature audience that is the average console gamer may want. So don't pidgeon hole us into one category. Dr. Seuss is lovely and all, but I'd go crazy if that's all I had to read.
Do you want Nintendo's games or do you want Nintendo's consoles? I love Nintendo's games. I'm not a fan of their consoles. Why would I need a reason to buy their consoles?VG_Addict said:
That's the point.
And Sony offers an alternative to Nintendo, Microsoft offers an alternative to Sony, and PC offers an alternative to other consoles. The thing is, all platforms of gaming offer an alternative, and while yes there are 3rd parties on both, there are first parties that aren't on each others consoles, or some third parties that aren't available on the other platform.VG_Addict said:
It again comes down to what LightKnight asked, do you want Nintendo's games, or do you want their consoles?
While I don't think they should go third-party, I can see why some might want it that way. People said the same thing back in the day when SEGA was a console manufacturer, they didn't want SEGA's consoles, but they wanted the games they had.
I'm not doubting that, but the thing for many is, that when they are going to buy a console they more than likely can only get one. So then you've got this predicament, get the console that has what is mainly only first party games (Wii U), or get one that has many 3rd party titles, with some first party titles as well (Xbox One, PS4, PC). For many it's a trade off really. I mean honestly the Wii, while it had some good titles, those titles were buried under so much shovelware that people didn't either a) know of some of the really good titles, or b) at that point no longer cared.VG_Addict said:
Right now, the Wii U is built on many promises that the titles will come out this year and hopefully without any delays, but that's really it. I mean Pikmin 3 was supposed to be a Wii U launch title, and look at how long that got pushed back. A person's patience can run out after a while.
So? Computers do too. so are steam boxes. Microsoft and Sony are also alternatives. Why does Nintendo's console need to exist specifically?VG_Addict said:
Yes, as seen before the 7th generation. How does that help us now? The gamecube even saw them produce the most powerful console for the cheapest price and it sold fewer than any other mainstream console they've made (until the WiiU, perhaps). Now that consoles have become so complex and x86 environments, Nintendo no longer has a special edge.VG_Addict said:
Frankly, the day Nintendo broke their agreement with Sony and prompted Sony's entrance into the market was the day they spelled their doom. The only thing they have going for them is their amazing handheld division and that $50 billion in cash that will prop them up for decades if they so desire. Just remember, whether or not they are capable of making good consoles, the WiiU IS their 8th generation console. A device that's not much more powerful than the 360 but nowhere close to the 8th generation competition while being almost as expensive and having relatively few games. I don't care about what they could hypothetically do. I do care about what they've done and what they will do.
Like I said in the post you just quoted of me. Nintendo has something like $50 billion in cash (technically yes, "over a billion", but realistically much more than your statement indicates which wouldn't be that much in reality, but 50b is). They have the ability to ride out quite a few storms.the hidden eagle said:
So my point certainly isn't tha they're going to die away. My comment is that unless they create a legitimate console that can cater to a wider demographic's needs then consumers would be better off with them going third party and they may actually make more money as a 3rd party developer in the interim.
I also agree that fancy hardware doesn't make a good game. But a shitty console can prevent good games from being ported to them and a shitty console can also make obstacles large enough to prevent even fantastic developers from easily side stepping the issues. Point and case, Sony purposefully made the ps3 difficult to develop for. They made developers split up their assets into various categories and if any of the categories got too bloated the system would crash. The problem is, games like Skyrim have a bloating issue (that's why Skyrim on the ps3 crashed for the first four months after an hour of play) and games like Rage sometimes have particularly large assets (Rage had a huge texture asset that loaded all at once for some reason).
Again, we lose nothing by being able to play Nintendo games on more capable machines. But the WiiU robs us of being able to play major 3rd party games. Yes, Nintendo's best interest would likely to be to cling to having their own consoles. No, that doesn't mean it's best for us. Shame on them for making such an underpowered machine. They had to have known that the XBO and PS4 were aiming higher. Or maybe they didn't do any research about their competition and just put out whatever they wanted to.