Question, If Anita Sarkeesian is Right, why is Jack Thompson Wrong?

[Bellvedere]

I haven't watched any of Anita Sarkeesian's videos since the damsel in distress ones so I don't really know what she's said since but in what I saw she never stated that games would make men go out and rape/kill/beat women or even that playing games only had an effect on men.

Her primary argument is that video games perpetuate negate gender stereotypes and the continual reinforcement of those stereotypes does have the ability to subtly influence how people (the gals and the guys) think about the roles of men and women in society and their capabilities in those roles.

I did see the one where she discussed domestic violence in relation to video game violence against women and it was really poorly explained/linked however what I got from it was that it was less about causing players to actually go out and hit/kill women and more about propagating the notion that (women) could "deserve it"/"were asking for it". Even then I kind of think it's a pretty tenuous link but still not a "monkey see, monkey do" argument, like those of Thompson.

 

[Pogilrup]

No because if it was a call for censorship she would tell us to support Bill H.R XYZ to regulate the content of videogames.

That's a direct call for censorship, what she has been doing is very much a call for it, but an indirect one as it is inferred in the viewer that that is her message about the topic at hand at the end of her videos. If it isn't what she is trying to say, then her videos are even worst then I already thought they where.

You think asking the audience to watch the media they consume or asking the creators to double check their work for unintentional expressions of prejudices is censorship?

 

[Zontar]

You think asking the audience to watch the media they consume or asking the creators to double check their work for unintentional expressions of prejudices is censorship?

I think misrepresenting works of media intentionally and then stating matter-of-factly that it needs to change is censorship, yes. She isn't just "asking" in the sense that I would ask my brother if he could take out the trash( where no, or more accurately "go f**k yourself" is an acceptable answer), she's asking in the sense that my mother is asking me to take out the trash (where the only acceptable answer is to follow it to the letter, and artistic integrity and ability to remain in business due to the realities of the market be damned).

 

[Pogilrup]

You think asking the audience to watch the media they consume or asking the creators to double check their work for unintentional expressions of prejudices is censorship?

I think misrepresenting works of media intentionally and then stating matter-of-factly that it needs to change is censorship, yes. She isn't just "asking" in the sense that I would ask my brother if he could take out the trash( where no, or more accurately "go f**k yourself" is an acceptable answer), she's asking in the sense that my mother is asking me to take out the trash (where the only acceptable answer is to follow it to the letter, and artistic integrity and ability to remain in business due to the realities of the market be damned).

She has no power to enforce anything on you or any company in the industry.

One can follow the advice or not.

Or are you afraid of that she might wield social media power equal to that of NewsCorp to sink a game or even a company? Because quite frankly she doesn't have that level of influence.

 

[MysticSlayer]

According to Anita Sarkeesian if us men play a video game and do something against woman, we will think its ok to do something against woman in real life (kill, rape, beat, etc)

If you can point out where she actually says this, then we can have some (albeit little) discussion. However, she does a lot to avoid ever making these claims, and is often more friendly towards games than the very studies she cites, which themselves come nowhere near this claim. Really, you're just twisting her words, or at the very least giving too much credit to those who have twisted her words.

one admits that they don't actually play video games

Can we please get over this? She said she's not a big fan of violent games because she often doesn't find the constant, visceral action enjoyable. However, she's said on numerous occasions that she finds other games like Mario, Just Dance, etc. very fun.

When did Sarkeesian ever explicitly say video games cause men to want to rape women? I've never heard this one, at least not in the form of an exact quote not taken out of context.

See her latest video, she pretty much made the claim that video games that harm woman will infleunce men to do the same.

No, she didn't. At most she might have said men were more accepting of sexual harassment, but that doesn't come anywhere near encouraging men to kill and rape women.

 

[Zontar]

She has no power to enforce anything on you or any company in the industry.

One can follow the advice or not.

Or are you afraid of that she might wield social media power equal to that of NewsCorp to sink a game or even a company? Because quite frankly she doesn't have that level of influence.

I don't think she has that level of influence (hell, I think my comment mentioning that at best the big companies only pay people like her token attention before going back to making money made that clear), my problem with her is the fact that, on top of all the lying, she is using the lies to try (she may not succeed, but the key word is TRY) and get things censored. Trying to make it be self-censorship isn't even the worst part, it's the fact that all-but-forced self-censorship already happened to the industry years ago, and all it takes is a few people at the right place at the right time and BOOM, we've got a video-game dark age on our hands just like film and comics did (and by the same movement no less, even if the ideology is a complete 180 of what it used to be when both those mediums went into their dark ages).

 

[Pogilrup]

According to Anita Sarkeesian if us men play a video game and do something against woman, we will think its ok to do something against woman in real life (kill, rape, beat, etc)

If you can point out where she actually says this, then we can have some (albeit little) discussion. However, she does a lot to avoid ever making these claims, and is often more friendly towards games than the very studies she cites, which themselves come nowhere near this claim. Really, you're just twisting her words, or at the very least giving too much credit to those who have twisted her words.

one admits that they don't actually play video games

Can we please get over this? She said she's not a big fan of violent games because she often doesn't find the constant, visceral action enjoyable. However, she's said on numerous occasions that she finds other games like Mario, Just Dance, etc. very fun.

When did Sarkeesian ever explicitly say video games cause men to want to rape women? I've never heard this one, at least not in the form of an exact quote not taken out of context.

See her latest video, she pretty much made the claim that video games that harm woman will infleunce men to do the same.

No, she didn't. At most she might have said men were more accepting of sexual harassment, but that doesn't come anywhere near encouraging men to kill and rape women.

She didn't until she then went off the deep end in her latest video and accused games of causing people to cause people to be rape apologists (not exact words by the term for what's said) and even for being part of the cause of eating disorders in women.

No one game, or work in media, is going to be sole cause or even the major cause. Each one is going to be but a raindrop in the flood.

 

[MysticSlayer]

She didn't until she then went off the deep end in her latest video and accused games of causing people to cause people to be rape apologists (not exact words by the term for what's said) and even for being part of the cause of eating disorders in women.

And how is that equivalent to rape and murder?

 

[Dragonbums]

I just find it funny that the very people who froth at the mouth about Anita skewing what people said, how they said it, and the context are prone to doing the same things when they want to make an argument against her. I especially love it when they day "Anita claims that [X]" and when asked for proof 9/10 they say "well its implied". Like lol.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I know these threads are where reason and logic come to die, but as far as I'm aware Anita Sarkeesian has never filed suit against a videogame company on behalf of a rape victim.

 

[Frission]

I'm not exactly familiar with this subject, but is there anyone here who can actually build a cohesive argument that doesn't insult the OP? It's should be possible.

OT: I've always believed that both are wrong and that it's not the media which creates problems. It may exacerbate them, but that it.

 

[Draconalis]

Which to my admittedly limited knowledge is true.

It's not...

But hey, if you don't believe me, feel free to look up all the sources Anita cites to back her academic statement.

Spoiler alert: She doesn't have any.

But yeah... if it were true, people would commit far more crimes.

 

[MysticSlayer]

You're forgetting the part where eating disorders have been linked to unrealistic portrayals of "skinniness" in the media. Its certainly not the only influence, but it is a influence, and thats all it takes.

Edit: Forgot to add this to the post.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2533817/

Anyways, I think its unreasonable to dismiss that videogames that saturate a person with suggestions about treating other people the same way that media depictions of bodies can alter how people perceive their own bodies in contrast to the rest of the world.

True but the approach very much is "You should feel bad because playing these games is giving girls eating disorders merely but playing them it shows you support this"

Keep in mind, Anita doesn't think a game is all bad or all good based on its treatment of women. She even said at the beginning of her last video that it is entirely possible to really enjoy the games she criticizes but that that doesn't exempt them from scrutiny for what they do wrong. After all, it is possible to both love and hate things in the same game. It's something we all do, anyways.

I'm not exactly familiar with this subject, but is there anyone here who can actually build a cohesive argument that doesn't insult the OP?

He makes a ridiculous premise (that Anita thinks games will cause men to rape and kill women) and has yet to back that ridiculous premise up outside of twisting her words from one video. To call out how ridiculous the OP's entire premise for the comparison is is really all we can do at this point until he actually backs up those claims.