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Iron Mal

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PeePantz said:
How can you expect people to read text with blood in their eyes..... (jk)

Anywho, I'm willing to look somewhat past poor grammar, but it doesn't change the opinion I place on the poster. Call it unfortunate, even when I fully understand what challenges it might be caused from, but I don't believe I'm in a minority. As far as the whole "laziness" part, I feel that even though it might take an extra thirty minutes to post a paragraph, it's well worth it. Not only will you avoid disparaging remarks, it helps one grow and improve. What will take thirty minutes, will then become twenty five, then fifteen, and eventually only a minute or two. Sure it might be a *****, but it promotes learning and bettering of oneself. Laziness in this case is not necessarily used as an insult.
The idea of encouraging people to do better is fine, and reccomending ways a person can improve is one thing (again, I actively lend assistance to my Mum because she has a hard time spelling and thinking of how to phrase a thought) but choosing to insted just belittle and insult a person over this is something else completely (again, remembering how this isn't always the fault of the person writing it) and can't be justified as 'it's for their own good' (constructive criticism is helpful, putting a person down and openly stating that they aren't even worth your attention is just damaging).

It may be a common thing but, again, I think we should expect better of people.
 

Tselis

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Iron Mal said:
Tselis said:
I would answer your question but the damage you just did to the English language is far too distracting.


retyopy said:
GRAMMAR! SPELLING! AAAAAAAHHHHAhaHAHAHHAIUhokjmjjasdjnmfmfdnmmsdfmdsmfjmdfjdfsknmafmafnafsmafsnsafnmnmnmnjnn!
Have you ever heard of the phrase 'if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all'?

My version is, 'if you don't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything at all'.

If you have a problem with something that he's said because it conflicts with a belief or opinion you hold then that's fair enough. Ripping into the guy because his spelling or grammar are off is just plain childish and petty.
Well, actually ...
If a stranger wanders up to you on the street and asks you something while speaking street rat, than you would move on and hope that they aren't high or violent. Why? I'll tell you. First impressions make a difference, a big one. You might want to consider that.
 

Iron Mal

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Tselis said:
Well, actually ...
If a stranger wanders up to you on the street and asks you something while speaking street rat, than you would move on and hope that they aren't high or violent. Why? I'll tell you. First impressions make a difference, a big one. You might want to consider that.
Well, actually...

It is fair to say there's a different between making a judgement about someone in the street (where it is possible that your decision in that scenario is based on whether you percieve that person to be an immediate threat to you) and reading an opinion or arguement laid out by someone on a message board or forum (where your decision appears to be based on petty standards and a sense of superioroty).

First impressions are important and right now from my perspective by being dismissive and talking down to someone who otherwise had a valid question you're coming off to me as snobbish and arrogant (unlike poor spelling there isn't any excuse or reason for that other than a fault of character on your part).

You might want to consider that.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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It's not repeat threads in general that annoy us; it's threads that are repeats of repeats of repeats. If you wait long enough between the original thread and the new one, you'll get new insights from the newer members. This is a good thing. If you do it like the "why is MLP so popular?!?!" threads, on the other hand, it gets real old real quick. Having to answer the same question a minimum of once a week for several months on end can get to you like that.
 

Tselis

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Iron Mal said:
Tselis said:
Well, actually ...
If a stranger wanders up to you on the street and asks you something while speaking street rat, than you would move on and hope that they aren't high or violent. Why? I'll tell you. First impressions make a difference, a big one. You might want to consider that.
Well, actually...

It is fair to say there's a different between making a judgement about someone in the street (where it is possible that your decision in that scenario is based on whether you percieve that person to be an immediate threat to you) and reading an opinion or arguement laid out by someone on a message board or forum (where your decision appears to be based on petty standards and a sense of superioroty).

First impressions are important and right now from my perspective by being dismissive and talking down to someone who otherwise had a valid question you're coming off to me as snobbish and arrogant (unlike poor spelling there isn't any excuse or reason for that other than a fault of character on your part).

You might want to consider that.
A stranger on the street is just as dangerous as a stranger on the internet. A stranger is a stranger, no matter the setting. Caution is always warranted. If you find me dismissive, it's because the internet is most reminiscent of a water treatment plant. You really never know what you are going to find, and whatever you do find, a liberal application of cleaner (by fire if necessary) is never remiss.

EDIT: Oh, and it's not snobbish to ask that people practice the skills they are supposed to have been taught in school.
 

b3nn3tt

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Iron Mal said:
Not everyone is good at spelling (and not every browser has a spell-check in it, mine doesn't and while my spelling and puncuation is usually very good I do make the odd mistake here or there that gets by me and it does stick out to me when I read my post again after I submit it) and quite a few people have legitimate reasons for this such as Dyslexia, English not being their first language or even just not having done so well at school.

Very rarely is it laziness that causes people's spelling and grammar to suffer, you can tell when it's laziness, they wouldn't bother writing much to begin with and my whole 'disagree with what's said rather than how it's said' thing would probably apply then.
I agree with your points, I think constructive criticism is always useful. However, when the OP then posts this:
Death Wolf113 said:
retyopy said:
GRAMMAR! SPELLING! AAAAAAAHHHHAhaHAHAHHAIUhokjmjjasdjnmfmfdnmmsdfmdsmfjmdfjdfsknmafmafnafsmafsnsafnmnmnmnjnn!

Ahem... I don't really know either. It's never made sense to me.
I understand that my grammar sucks but it dosn't really bother me
then I lose sympathy. If someone admits that laziness is the cause of their poor grammar/spelling then they don't really deserve defending.

OT: I don't actually understand it either. I don't understand why people feel the need to add to a thread that they dislike. All it does is help that thread get into the hot topic threads. which then invites more people to contributing, including more people that hate the thread because it's a repeat.

On the other hand, the searchbar is incredibly easy to use.
 

Torrasque

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Daystar Clarion said:
The irony.

It's freakin' killing me over here.
lol, thats all I had to read xD
The rest of the thread doesn't even matter after this post.
 

Aurgelmir

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Well it is just so many treads about ponies you can read before you get a little sick about reading the same question and the same answers.

Although I do feel that some people here are a bit over sensitive to repeat subjects. Sometimes there might be a very old topic that is in need of a reboot imo.

But all in all you just get a bit frustrated when someone ask a question that actually have a duplicate ON the MAIN page still...
 

Iron Mal

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Tselis said:
A stranger on the street is just as dangerous as a stranger on the internet. A stranger is a stranger, no matter the setting. Caution is always warranted. If you find me dismissive, it's because the internet is most reminiscent of a water treatment plant. You really never know what you are going to find, and whatever you do find, a liberal application of cleaner (by fire if necessary) is never remiss.

EDIT: Oh, and it's not snobbish to ask that people practice the skills they are supposed to have been taught in school.
Please do explain how there is a tangible difference between a setting where someone can potentially stab you and a setting where the most likely hassle and abuse you'll get is a hurtful commment?

Between all the threats I've recieved from people saying they'll attack me in person and all the ones of people saying they'll hack me online or track me down and assault me I've only actually had the 'in person' people actually follow up on it (and even then I'd love to see you somehow equate someone showing poor spelling and grammar to someone trying to take a chunk out of you with a rock to the face without sounding like a drama queen).

About your statement of how no matter what you find in the 'sewage plant' that is the internet should be subject to proverbial trial by fire is a bit...how do I put this?

Dickish? (I'm presuming that you believe that you don't deserve this treatment?)

Also, yes, it is snobbish to attack someone for something as petty as their writing regardless of how simple you feel it is to do right (again, not everyone is very good at writing and for various reasons, how about rather than being an arsehole towards others you try being a bit more encouraging?).

b3nn3tt said:
I agree with your points, I think constructive criticism is always useful. However, when the OP then posts this:
Death Wolf113 said:
retyopy said:
GRAMMAR! SPELLING! AAAAAAAHHHHAhaHAHAHHAIUhokjmjjasdjnmfmfdnmmsdfmdsmfjmdfjdfsknmafmafnafsmafsnsafnmnmnmnjnn!

Ahem... I don't really know either. It's never made sense to me.
I understand that my grammar sucks but it dosn't really bother me
then I lose sympathy. If someone admits that laziness is the cause of their poor grammar/spelling then they don't really deserve defending.
I understand why you might take objection to that although I feel that unless the person in question has actually make a statement that is worth blasting them with hassle for then it is always worth defending them over even if only to try and promote people to actually be more open to well reasoned discussion and debate (as I've said before in many other places, disagreeing with someone because of what they've said is fine, no problem with that, disagreeing with them over how they've said it is very much different and very close minded).

Call me a 'white knight crusader' type if need be but I would still defend the notion that it's more beneficial to a discussion to have people consider and deconstruct a person's actual opinion rather than fly into hyperbolic rages over the absence of capital letters and spelling mistakes (especially when it doesn't even effect the overall clarity of a message).
 

b3nn3tt

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Iron Mal said:
b3nn3tt said:
I agree with your points, I think constructive criticism is always useful. However, when the OP then posts this:
Death Wolf113 said:
retyopy said:
GRAMMAR! SPELLING! AAAAAAAHHHHAhaHAHAHHAIUhokjmjjasdjnmfmfdnmmsdfmdsmfjmdfjdfsknmafmafnafsmafsnsafnmnmnmnjnn!

Ahem... I don't really know either. It's never made sense to me.
I understand that my grammar sucks but it dosn't really bother me
then I lose sympathy. If someone admits that laziness is the cause of their poor grammar/spelling then they don't really deserve defending.
I understand why you might take objection to that although I feel that unless the person in question has actually make a statement that is worth blasting them with hassle for then it is always worth defending them over even if only to try and promote people to actually be more open to well reasoned discussion and debate (as I've said before in many other places, disagreeing with someone because of what they've said is fine, no problem with that, disagreeing with them over how they've said it is very much different and very close minded).

Call me a 'white knight crusader' type if need be but I would still defend the notion that it's more beneficial to a discussion to have people consider and deconstruct a person's actual opinion rather than fly into hyperbolic rages over the absence of capital letters and spelling mistakes (especially when it doesn't even effect the overall clarity of a message).
I would disagree. I think it is more beneficial to encourage people to improve their spelling/grammar. I don't think that diving in and blasting people for wording something poorly or making a few typos is acceptable. Generally, I don't comment on a person's grammar, but if their argument is well-written and coherent I think it tends to make a much stronger point.

I completely agree with you that the focus should be on what is said, not how it's said.
 

Iron Mal

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b3nn3tt said:
I would disagree. I think it is more beneficial to encourage people to improve their spelling/grammar. I don't think that diving in and blasting people for wording something poorly or making a few typos is acceptable. Generally, I don't comment on a person's grammar, but if their argument is well-written and coherent I think it tends to make a much stronger point.

I completely agree with you that the focus should be on what is said, not how it's said.
Then that is where we would be at an impass, like I said before, I also understand cases where the message is hard to read due to grammatical issues but in most cases such responses tend to not only be over minor problems (meaning that it tends to be somewhat uncalled for and goes into the realms of overexaggerating the problems present) but it also tends to mean that a lot of responses that make points of poor grammar seem to completely ignore what has been said in favour of ripping the poor person a new arsehole (yes, it helps if they have their point well worded and structured but that's not what I'm argueing and that's still not much of an excuse for what is essentially petty name calling).
 

CannibalCorpses

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Iron Mal said:
I wholeheartedly agree with you. The point being made is the only important part of an argument. Some people hold themselves to higher standards than others and that is fine, but don't come knocking on my door demanding the same standards from me.

It irks me a little that i have to translate some peoples language into English but i don't look down from my ivory tower and think that they are any less for trying to communicate with me. I will point out that most people say things on the internet that they would never say in real life. It's easy to slag someone off anonymously but would you do the same in arms length of a beating in real life? No, you wouldn't. Is that little spelling mistake worth losing teeth over? No it's not.

Some people need to put things in context
 

b3nn3tt

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Iron Mal said:
b3nn3tt said:
I would disagree. I think it is more beneficial to encourage people to improve their spelling/grammar. I don't think that diving in and blasting people for wording something poorly or making a few typos is acceptable. Generally, I don't comment on a person's grammar, but if their argument is well-written and coherent I think it tends to make a much stronger point.

I completely agree with you that the focus should be on what is said, not how it's said.
Then that is where we would be at an impass, like I said before, I also understand cases where the message is hard to read due to grammatical issues but in most cases such responses tend to not only be over minor problems (meaning that it tends to be somewhat uncalled for and goes into the realms of overexaggerating the problems present) but it also tends to mean that a lot of responses that make points of poor grammar seem to completely ignore what has been said in favour of ripping the poor person a new arsehole (yes, it helps if they have their point well worded and structured but that's not what I'm argueing and that's still not much of an excuse for what is essentially petty name calling).
Indeed, it seems we must agree to disagree on that one. Although I do wholeheartedly agree that the replies that only focus on the mistakes without even touching on the actual point are entirely unecessary and themselves rather miss the point of a forum.
 

Ace of Spades

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I'm convinced that at least half of the deja-nazis on the escapist don't honestly care about keeping new and interesting topics in the forums and not endlessly repeating the same questions. I suspect that a good number of them just like to be condescending by sarcastically condemning posts that have been repeated in the past.
 

Blow_Pop

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retyopy said:
Death Wolf113 said:
why dose the The Escapist community care so much about repeat threds and repeat question's so much. dose it really incovies you so much to read a question twice and if so why commint on the thred in the first place is it just to make you fell better or is it just out of spite
GRAMMAR! SPELLING! AAAAAAAHHHHAhaHAHAHHAIUhokjmjjasdjnmfmfdnmmsdfmdsmfjmdfjdfsknmafmafnafsmafsnsafnmnmnmnjnn!

Ahem... I don't really know either. It's never made sense to me.
GAH! IT BURNS!

And yes it is an inconvenience to have multiple threads saying the same thing.
 

Tselis

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Death Wolf113 said:
I understand that my grammar sucks but it dosn't really bother me
Iron Mal, I would school you, since you seem to need it, but I think the person you are defending just did it for me.

Iron Mal said:
Call me a 'white knight crusader' type if need be but I would still defend the notion that it's more beneficial to a discussion to have people consider and deconstruct a person's actual opinion rather than fly into hyperbolic rages over the absence of capital letters and spelling mistakes (especially when it doesn't even effect the overall clarity of a message).
Also, I'm a trained linguist, it could have been a great deal worse, and I still could have understood. What I object to is people defending the corsening of the language. It's like defending gutter speech. If you want to be a white knight, find something better to crusade for. You aren't making the world better. If it makes you feel better, that's fine, but you are not making the overall situation better.
As for fits of hyperbolic rage, I'm not even angry. I'm an anti-social asshole. Yeah, I'm a happily married woman, but I'm still proudly an asshole. So, I guess that means you've been trolled. Grammer trolling for Great Victory!! *snicker*
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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People here shouldn't have to do the work of people that don't use the search function. It is basic internet knowledge that most sites have a search function. It takes all of a minute to find it on here. So with common knowledge people should just use the search function, to find a thread that poses a question they are thinking about and then post in it instead of making a copy that clutters up the forum.

Iron Mal said:
PeePantz said:
Grammar/spelling that poor almosts nullifies a post. It shows that the OP didn't take much thought in the thread and didn't feel the need to correct his mistakes, thus making the importance of his/her post lessen severely. Poor spelling can easily be corrected by simply checking after those red dots mark a misfire. Not only does this help correct the ignorance of the OP and help him state a stronger case, it helps everyone stay clear of bleeding eyes.
The most important part of a person's opinion should be exactly that, their opinion. Not the way it's presented, not any errors or spelling mistakes and definately not because you appear to have an irrational fear of poor grammar.
That's all fine and dandy in fairytale land, but that doesn't work in the real world.

First off, I'm taking into consideration that the OP is 19 or 20 years old, from his profile.

Because of that I'll looking at this from an adult prospective. If one doesn't have good communications skill, living in the real world will be quite a chore. Considering what I have been told by every single English professor that I had in college, if someone has a question they answered or has a point to make in an argument, people in the real world aren't going to take what that person says seriously if he or she can't communicate clearly with proper grammar and spelling.

If I had submitted something that was as badly written as what the OP wrote, my professors probably wouldn't have even graded it, they would have probably given me a zero or if they were feeling nice, they would have given me until the end of the day or the next day to fix it and turn it back in.
Even if you pull the whole it is just an internet post thing, my professors always stressed that even in personal conversations with random people or friends or family, proper grammar is still as important as it is in a professional setting. If people have a hard time reading what a person writes, they are going to have a hard time understanding the person and in most cases and rightly so, not care about what the person says since the person didn't care about communicating clearly.
Even if the OP's browser doesn't have a spell-checker, he could have at least opened his word processor and checked what he wrote. Any time I misspell a word and my browser doesn't know what I'm spelling, I either open Word and see what it says, or I pull up Google and let it decipher what I'm trying to spell. In the end, if by some impossible odds that fails, I don't just leave the word misspelled, I choose a different word that means the same or I rephrase what I was saying.
College made me appreciate using proper grammar and spelling. My professors and even I now would say that ideas like yours that only the opinion and/or idea of what is written is important are the reasons why every year new college prospects that enter their freshman year seem like they have had absolutely no teaching in proper writing.

Heck, ideas like yours almost brought about the destruction of proper English learning a few years ago. I remember hearing about some crazy idea that some grade school teachers wanted to put into effect. The plan/idea was called Whole English, basically what it was is that if a kid misspelled a word but it still sounded like the word they were trying to spell, it would be counted right.
That is utter bullshit, that would mean that if such a thing was in place when I was in first grade, when I had a brain lapse and spelled "of" as "uv", it would have been counted right and possibly from then on I would have been misspelling "of" as "uv". The OP's spelling of "thread" as "thred", would have been counted right as well.

We can't have such ignorance in our education system or even let it by in in our everyday lives. Because if we let what the OP writes slide as okay. Everybody eventually will start believing that they can write anyway they want and then all communication will break down.
Things like text speak are already seeping into the English language and corrupting people and hurting their communication and academic standing. I remember one of my English professors, she was practically banging her head against the front desk in the classroom when I came in. I asked her what the problem was and she said that practically half her freshman composition class was using text speak in a majority of their papers and they weren't doing it as a joke. The students literally thought it would be accepted in college, since the everyday texting world finds it acceptable. That thought just made me think less of the world, at least of the teachers those kids must of had in high school if they let that stuff get by.

So no, people here aren't in the wrong by criticizing the OP about his grammar and spelling. Such is needed to protect the integrity of proper communication.
 

Iron Mal

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Tselis said:
Death Wolf113 said:
I understand that my grammar sucks but it dosn't really bother me
Iron Mal, I would school you, since you seem to need it, but I think the person you are defending just did it for me.
Admitting that you have bad grammar doesn't nessercarily mean that everyone is justified in ripping you a new one so your suggested schooling may not be as self-explanitory or obvious as you think it is.

Also, I'm a trained linguist, it could have been a great deal worse, and I still could have understood. What I object to is people defending the corsening of the language. It's like defending gutter speech. If you want to be a white knight, find something better to crusade for. You aren't making the world better. If it makes you feel better, that's fine, but you are not making the overall situation better.
As for fits of hyperbolic rage, I'm not even angry. I'm an anti-social asshole. Yeah, I'm a happily married woman, but I'm still proudly an asshole. So, I guess that means you've been trolled. Grammer trolling for Great Victory!! *snicker*
My statement about labelling myself as a white knight was more along the lines of 'if that is what you're going to think of me as then the implications and stigmas attached to that aren't going to dissuade me from standing behind my point of view' (probably could have explained that somewhat better).

I studied English Language and the history and evolution of it myself in college so I understand what issues people sometimes have with the notion of language 'dumbing down' and I feel it's a concern that's up there with panics like 'video games cause violence' and 'movie stars turning our daughters into hookers' (in short, it's understandable why some people would think this is possible and panic over it but I somehow doubt that our language is doomed to a proverbial fate worse than death).

I personally think that it's a very reactionary and somewhat elitist view that the feared lowering of standards (or more importantly, if we don't 'safeguard the pristine purity of our language') will somehow result in some great crisis of communication, if you're trained as a linguist (which would mean you should surely possess more knowledge than me in the field) then you should know that it is through this process that the English language as we know it today was actually formed (language is a living and constantly changing thing that adapts to the cultures, societies and technology around it), now I'm not saying that we should stop teaching kids how to spell and write properly in school (it's an important skill) or that we should encourage people to drop their T's and H's but what I am saying is that the typical reaction of proverbially gutting the offender doesn't help anyone and isn't really help give anyone a better grasp of proper spelling and grammar (remember, if school or circumstance failed them then I doubt that a buch of anti-social arseholes on the internet is going to be able to work miracles).