R18+ Opponent Accuses Gamers of Using Propaganda in Rating Debate

[Kegsen]

And yet again it seems that "games = kids".

I really wonder how long it will take for the videogaming industry to be taken seriously as a medium. Yes there are violent games. Well, so are the news. Now, perhaps there is some validity in the argument that prolonged exposure to violent games for a kid will cause lack of empathy.
And, perhaps that the counterargument is that prolonged exposure to programmes like Paradise Hotel etc causes lack of brainfunctions.

Given the already high amount of violent content in other mediums on a 24 hours basis, or disturbing content in other forms, it`s starting to seem like the gamingindustry is being discriminated on a basis of stubborness. Just because a few people feels that games are childish toys it must be only children who are gamers - ergo - unarmed unicorns and kittens all around.
Games as a medium should be able to explore the dark regions of the human mind, and freely so, for the appropriate age group.

Didn`t Beverly Hills 90210 deal with such themes as drug abuse, alcoholism and rape? Starring that decades` hottest young actors? Don`t we see aggresive acts of war and terrorism in the news every single day?

Denying mature gamers the right to play games (they can get their hands on anyway) because of the argument of "it c a n hurt kids" is simply put just the easy way out for those who don`t want to have responsibilities. Parents who take an active interest in their kids hobbies, and actually communicate with them, is a part of the solution. Parents who use consoles/pcs as a nanny while themselves turn a blind eye to the entertainment, should go to the nearest mirror when they want to point the finger if something should change in little Billy no-mates` behaviour.

 

[moretimethansense]

There's not much else to say really

 

[Denmarkian]

Gotta love the self-defeating rhetoric and justifications people like this woman use.

As others have mentioned, she is basically arguing that we need to keep R18+ games out of Australia because children have already gained access to R18+ content in movies and magazines.

Allowing R18+ games into Australia would then make a broken system more broken.

And somehow that will be worse than already having a broken system.

...What?

This is really the problem with people trying to legislate morality:
If you want to control what your child is exposed to, it's your personal responsibility.

You do not get to tell other people to limit what they expose their children to so that your child will not be exposed to anything you don't want them to while in the company of other children.

I.E., if you want to pretend that normal people don't talk about sex, EVER, that's fine but then it's your responsibility to find or create a community that follows that line of reasoning.

You do not get to pass arbitrary legislation that tells the rest of the population that they are not allowed to talk about sex, EVER.

Same goes for exposing your children to pain; disappointment; failure; fear; discomfort; and people of other races, classes, cultural backgrounds, sexual orientation, and religions.

The real world has everything, the good and the bad. In order to develop a well-rounded personality, you need to understand that, and the best way to learn is from direct experience.

 

[fgdfgdgd]

Yes, because in this debate we were obvious the only ones using propaganda, just go to the Australian Christian Leagues page and see all their propaganda, digging up even the most obscure games from the past 30 years to use as an example even if what they use is completely out of context.

 

[Jonci]

Well if they think parents are so ineffective at controlling what their kids get their hands on, then all cleaning and toxic products need to be banned in Australia! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

 

[SinisterGehe]

OOOOOOOOOOOO Propaganda!
Just like every other advocacy group EVER!

I though all advocating groups used, proper, acceptable and truthful material in order to driver their cause.
My world is shattered! Thanks to you and this news topic. -.-


On topic:
Oh well, if they want to let "children" have access to mature content* (*Storyline and the themes in handles) Due to down rating it to K15 or K16 or whatever they down rate it to. Or running it trough sensors...

Tell me does Australia have "artistic freedom", "freedom of media" or "freedom of speech and expression" concepts? Or do those exist only everywhere else* (*With few expectations)

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

Oh sure, gamers use propaganda when we try to make our point. And when you claim there's "mounting evidence on the dangers of gaming" (without citing any proof), or go into your whole "think of the children mode" to tug at our heart strings, that's not propaganda at all.

 

[Jamous]

Why must people misunderstand us so? IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF. DX
Nicely said about how it's the game as a whole, not the violence we want. Never a truer statement.

 

[Gigano]

Yeah, those poor little kids would quickly get hold of those bad bad commercially released DVD's etc., and since satisfying such curiosity about the adult world is totally unnatural and unlike all generations which have come before them, lets ban them.

They'll just have to find their entertainment on the internet instead, where obviously nothing as bad as the themes generally found in commercially released 18+ products can be found...

 

[RuralGamer]

Simple problem with her logic which has been demonstrated on this website time and again by Yahtzee; if they can't by the games there, they can always buy a copy from abroad. Effectively the only thing achieved by preventing an R18+ classification is doing is giving foreign companies on the web an advantage over Australian retailers.

 

[Stewie Plisken]

How DARE you use propaganda when we try to censor your right to free expression? Horrible, horrible people. What has become of this world's values, I wonder....

 

[theheroofaction]

So the pot says to the kettle: I hate you because you're black.

 

[Void(null)]

Every-time I see something like this the first thought that enters my mind is: "Show me the studies."

Not once have I ever seen a study even remotely point to negative effects on adults, let alone children. All these activist groups seem to take a very small snippet of a study and jump off the cliff with it like so:

"Studies have shown that there is a link to oxygen and death. Our children are in fact at this very moment gorging themselves on oxygen like addicts at an all you can eat drug buffet. People who go without oxygen for even a short period of time will violently react against the person trying to take it away from them. Its quite scary just how addicted even perfectly normal seeming people are. The only logical recourse should be an outright ban on the dangerous act of breathing."

 

[blanksmyname]

Over the past year ... the pro-R18+ lobby has argued that having such a category would provide better protection for children. The push became propaganda.

Biggins contended that rather than decrease children's exposure to violent content by limiting it to games intended for adults, it would simply allow for videogames with more extreme content.

People vocally in favour of an R18+ rating have always acknowledged that such a rating would bring games with more mature content into the nation, but they've also pointed out that there already ARE some games in the country that SHOULD be rated R, but have a lower rating instead. These people are aruging that making it illegal to play these games will prevent more children from playing them than the number of children who are already more or less legally playing them now. That is not propaganda.

Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"

And here we find a double standard. You argue that because children will get hold of R rated games, we shouldn't have them. Yet, you acknowledge that children do get hold of R rated movies, but make no argument to have an R18+ rating removed from cinema. Why are games worse?

She said that there was mounting evidence that playing violent games had numerous negative side effects, like loss of empathy and increased risk taking

That is not an argument. That is an observation. If you say that there's evidence of something, then you need to have that evidence to support your argument, otherwise you're feeding us empty, weasel words. What's more is that you say the evidence is mounting. If that claim was built from inductive reasoning, then your argument is mighty weak. You need to prove the evidence is mounting. You need to do something like presenting all the studies on the effects violence in interactive media made in the last 10 years and show that there's a clear trend of the number of studies, concluding that violent interactive media has negative effects, increasing.

and that any ratings system for videogames had to take their interactive nature into account.

Well that's actually true, but am I wrong in thinking that this is already being done? Weren't people criticising the classifaication board's report on it's RC for Left for Dead 2, because it mentioned that some zombies wear police uniforms? Perhaps I'm being too bold in thinking that zombie police wouldn't affect the rating of a zombie flick. The classification board made a big deal over the cop clothes, because they felt that it was worse for a PLAYER to kill things that resemble upholders of the law than things that resemble regular people. That's taking interactivity into account.



And you know, isn't that interactivity thing the fundamental argument against an R18+ rating?

Yes, movies are violent too, but games are worse because they're interactive.

Yes, kids can get hold of R rated movies too, but games are worse because they're interactive.


Didn't we just find the solution to this interactivity doohickey? Someone classifying a game can now think "Hmmm. This is violent, but not violent enough to be RC'd. Then again, it is me committing the violence, so I guess it should be refused classifcation." Now there's no valid argument as to why a game is worse than a movie, because they'll both be rated fairly. And so I don't see why there's still arguments against Australia having an R18+ rating for games.


Deary me, that was a long post. Sorry about that.

 

[SpaceCop]

"Given that it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from exposure to portable R18+ items like DVDs and games, how can it be possibly claimed that this would be better for children?"

By that logic, it's practically impossible for even the most conscientious of parents to keep their children away from alcohol--guess we'd better ban that for everyone too.

 

[Zom-B]

Obligatory:

 

[Twilight_guy]

Useing propogranda to try and get an idea to pass? What kind of madness is this? Argueing with peopel who oppses you? trully maddness! Now what was this business about gamers?

I think the thing yhey're missing here is the only way to prevent kids from getting violent material is not to ban the material but to stop the production of it. That will never heppen and so even if you ban it there will still be imports and way to cirucmvent the system. An argument for "But we can't control it" is an argument that is self-defeating. If we say there is no way to control it then banning it does no good either, nothing does anything. You proved that your own argument is invalid. The only thing you can do is try anfd regulate it as best you can and that implies actually acknowledgeing it.

Oh and the bullshit about the research data that games acuase violence blah blah blah and I've never seen a valid study like that blah blah blah. I honestly don't know why people go through so much troble and rage over trying to control games.

 

[tkioz]

A right wing "think of the children" wackjob is accusing someone else of using propaganda? Hello Pot, Meet Kettle.

Frankly the argument holds no water, if a parent buys a kid an R18+ game they've ignored the rating system, no-one under 18 should be playing an R18 game at all, simple as that.

These idiots need kicking out of my country.