Racism, is it used as a defence these days?

[Bezza27]

...but, when I said something offensive about an Asian person who punched me and disfigured my face I'm apparently being "racist" even when it wasn't a racial comment.

Not being accusatory but what exactly did you say to him or call him that was construed as racist?

It's okay, I gather your not being accusatory but here's how it happened:
I didnt say anyhthing to provoke him but someone later asked me "Who did that to you?" and I said "(His name) He's a complete dick" and they said "You can't say that," and I said "Why?" and they said "'Cos he's asian" and I said "And? I'm British, way to point out the obvious," and they said "Yeah, but that's racist," at that point I stopped replying to their texts.

 

[gphjr14]

Hate crime laws and a focus on race just creates an unnecessary focus on a fucking stupid difference. A lesson well learned from South Park.

Unlike Trey Parker and Matt Stone who majored in film I actually have a degree in American History concentrating in Southern history and in general the episode involving Tolken does has a point regarding hate crimes in the present but it negates to mention why exactly we have hate laws in America. Google image American Lynchings; that's why the laws were created to curtail a culture of open violence towards racial and social minorities that for decades went unchecked by local, state, federal governments. Racism is always gonna be around, and I'm not insecure to the point where I look for it but at the same time I'm not naive enough to be passive and become cynical of anyone who notices it.

Most of the anger usually seems to come from younger whites who feel persecuted for a something they had no control over. Well that's the thing what we do now affects future generations. It can either help them or become a burden. No one has anything to apologize for but at the same time you can't act like what happen only a few decades ago has no bearing on the present. Kind of like that South Park episode where Stan's dad drops the N bomb.

 

[Harbinger_]

-Jack the snipper was here-

Bad example aside it does happen.

So, why is the example bad? Besides being an actual major change?
And my point still stands: Does it matter which color the hobbits are? No, it matters as little as it matters if Legolas' eyebrows are black even though he is supposedly blond. I.e. it doesn't matter at all!

If you want to stay true to source material it does make a large amount of difference.

If you want to stay true to source material, then there is no need to make the film at all, since the only way to "stay [completly] true to source material" is being source material!

That is a ridiculous argument. Thats like saying you can't get an actor to play a certain character well enough unless you found that character.

No, it's saying you can't get an actor to be that character in every little point

Ah so you think that a person's race or orientation should be completely unimportant to them.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

Hate crime laws and a focus on race just creates an unnecessary focus on a fucking stupid difference. A lesson well learned from South Park.

Unlike Trey Parker and Matt Stone who majored in film I actually have a degree in American History concentrating in Southern history and in general the episode involving Tolken does has a point regarding hate crimes in the present but it negates to mention why exactly we have hate laws in America. Google image American Lynchings; that's why the laws were created to curtail a culture of open violence towards racial and social minorities that for decades went unchecked by local, state, federal governments. Racism is always gonna be around, and I'm not insecure to the point where I look for it but at the same time I'm not naive enough to be passive and become cynical of anyone who notices it.

Most of the anger usually seems to come from younger whites who feel persecuted for a something they had no control over. Well that's the thing what we do now affects future generations. It can either help them or become a burden. No one has anything to apologize for but at the same time you can't act like what happen only a few decades ago has no bearing on the present. Kind of like that South Park episode where Stan's dad drops the N bomb.

But there are already pretty stiff penalties for most violations of the law in the first place. I'm not a law professor so I don't know, but there should have to be a prior history of hatred or racism. If this isn't the case, then our system is pretty damn stupid.

Racism does exist, but I'm of the mind that motive matters less than what was done. Someone was murdered, should it matter why when it comes to sentencing? How, the brutality of it, should have a greater impact. Killing someone quickly would be less heinous than torturing them. This would still punish those who would be convicted of hate crimes because normally the racist fucktards can't help but be brutal and inflict pain.

Now I'm getting into theory and that doesn't really help.

 

[clipse15]

Hate crime laws and a focus on race just creates an unnecessary focus on a fucking stupid difference. A lesson well learned from South Park.

Unlike Trey Parker and Matt Stone who majored in film I actually have a degree in American History concentrating in Southern history and in general the episode involving Tolken does has a point regarding hate crimes in the present but it negates to mention why exactly we have hate laws in America. Google image American Lynchings; that's why the laws were created to curtail a culture of open violence towards racial and social minorities that for decades went unchecked by local, state, federal governments. Racism is always gonna be around, and I'm not insecure to the point where I look for it but at the same time I'm not naive enough to be passive and become cynical of anyone who notices it.

Most of the anger usually seems to come from younger whites who feel persecuted for a something they had no control over. Well that's the thing what we do now affects future generations. It can either help them or become a burden. No one has anything to apologize for but at the same time you can't act like what happen only a few decades ago has no bearing on the present. Kind of like that South Park episode where Stan's dad drops the N bomb.

But there are already pretty stiff penalties for most violations of the law in the first place. I'm not a law professor so I don't know, but there should have to be a prior history of hatred or racism. If this isn't the case, then our system is pretty damn stupid.

Racism does exist, but I'm of the mind that motive matters less than what was done. Someone was murdered, should it matter why when it comes to sentencing? How, the brutality of it, should have a greater impact. Killing someone quickly would be less heinous than torturing them. This would still punish those who would be convicted of hate crimes because normally the racist fucktards can't help but be brutal and inflict pain.

Now I'm getting into theory and that doesn't really help.

Well it already matters why when it comes to sentencing. Premeditated murder is punished more harshly than manslaughter and we have differences in punishment for first and second degree murder

 

[peruvianskys]

It's actually a much bigger problem when some of these racist ideas are so ingrained in people by the larger society that they don't even have to think of them on a conscious level. That's insidious racism, and it's a hell of a lot more dangerous and harmful than the Klan or other crackpots like that these days who wear their racism on their sleeve.

Bingo!

I can't stand white people who love saying "Race doesn't matter anymore" or "racism is dead," because although YOU may not have to deal with it, race sure as fuck does matter to the hundreds of thousands of people of color who are in jail because of our racist legal system, the millions of African-Americans who are living in poverty because of 400 years of racial segregation, and certainly to the hundreds of Arab-Americans/Indian-Americans who are murdered every year solely because of their race. It's easy for white people to say race doesn't matter to them because they don't have to deal with it; if you're a person of color, you certainly do.

I'm not particularly PC and I think occasionally stupid people use the race card to defend their stupidity, but it's absurd to act like race isn't a huge factor in the lives of non-whites in America/England/Australia/anywhere else. Race is still an important dynamic in our society (sadly) and until 70% of America's death row inmates aren't African Americans and until the police here stop killing an unarmed black/Arab man here each WEEK on average, the "race card" isn't a defense, it's just a fact.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

We have to be careful about labeling all cases of accused racism as 'the minority just played the race card to get his own way'. Some times it is like that, but we need to keep this clear...

Racism does still exist and is far more prominent than most of us would like to believe. It is the duty of the cultures that made racism such a global issue to make sure it is eradicated, and ethnic majorities will never be fully trusted by minority communities until this is done.

On the other hand, I do sometimes get sick of people confusing racism (ie. prejudice against an individual based entirely on their race, or against a race as a whole without any reasoned argument for it) with having an opinion that contradicts the actions and/or beliefs of an individual or group for perfectly valid reasons. For example, I have a very strong political problem with the way that the State of Israel has claimed sole ownership over an area of land that had previously been shared between several different races throughout history without any need for borders or serious conflict, and with the way they have been treating their former brothers ever since. However, I have now lost count of how many times, no matter how clearly I make the distinction, people will still confuse this with me having a religious or racial problem with Jews.

 

[Simonism451]

Ah so you think that a person's race or orientation should be completely unimportant to them.

Orientation? Sexual Orientation? Are you kidding? Of course it shouldn't! And now, this discussion is getting too idiotic, so I'll stop right here! (Probably I should have stopped when you stated, that the color of Legolas' eyebrows was of any importance to you)

 

[Harbinger_]

Ah so you think that a person's race or orientation should be completely unimportant to them.

Orientation? Sexual Orientation? Are you kidding? Of course it shouldn't! And now, this discussion is getting too idiotic, so I'll stop right here! (Probably I should have stopped when you stated, that the color of Legolas' eyebrows was of any importance to you)

Your example was a bad one. I happen to know that alot of people care about their orientation and race and find it to be important. It's called gender/racial identity and it's a valuable thing to have.

 

[standokan]

South Park did an episode about this once, I believe that it was Cartman who got charged for a hate crime for some odd reason.

 

[Simonism451]

Gnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

-Jack the snipper was here-

Bad example aside it does happen.

So, why is the example bad? Besides being an actual major change?
And my point still stands: Does it matter which color the hobbits are? No, it matters as little as it matters if Legolas' eyebrows are black even though he is supposedly blond. I.e. it doesn't matter at all!

If you want to stay true to source material it does make a large amount of difference.

If you want to stay true to source material, then there is no need to make the film at all, since the only way to "stay [completly] true to source material" is being source material!

That is a ridiculous argument. Thats like saying you can't get an actor to play a certain character well enough unless you found that character.

No, it's saying you can't get an actor to be that character in every little point

Ah so you think that a person's race or orientation should be completely unimportant to them.

What should be most important is how good an actor they are, and Idris Elba (who I assume you are talking about) is a fantastic actor who rocked in Thor so I don't see the problem. He shouldn't get a part simply because he's black, but who's to say that was the case? Is it so impossible for people to believe that he was just, y'know, the best guy they found?

Hell, Kieffer Sutherland is a Canadian actor with joint British nationality (I know nationality isn't quite the same thing as race but it still demonstrates my point). Culturally he has almost nothing to do with America. But at this point, could you honestly imagine anyone else playing the all-american Jack Bauer? The second ever Bond actor was Australian, and he deserved way more than the one movie that he got btw). The mind just boggles at the fact that decades ago MGM proved to everyone that acting talent > superficial details, and yet today people still think this is an issue.

 

[Corekrash]

What I quite like is people (Mainly those I have worked with at different jobs over the years) assuming I'm racist simply because I'm a large white male who cuts his hair too short. Having a frustratingly thick head of hair all my life I found it much easier to simply grab a pair of clippers and regularly buzz my hair off (Saves on drying time and shampoo money). I look better with my hair buzzed (NOT shaved off) Yet I find often people around me seem to constantly get the assumption I'm a hateful skinhead monster. It isn't shaved down to the scalp, I don't walk around spouting hateful slurs or wearing swastikas or trying to murder people because they look darker than me, I'm simply a big white guy with really short hair.

I found out later of course it was because I have a rather stern look about me (Apparently my "Normal" look is the equivalent of "Evil Hate monster who thinks hitler was right") And also because I usually refrain from interaction with co-workers beyond the necessary amount needed (And no, I don't consciously or subconsciously restrict interactions with people any more or less based on where their parents were from.)

Eventually at a new job this always passed as co-workers got to know me, but I think it is both curious and sad how people will jump to such conclusions about me, given such little reason.

 

[pulse2]

I've never come across racism on me, or at least I wasn't aware of it.

I will say though that racism DOES still exist, there are those who use it as an excuse, and there are cases where it is evident.

I like to take the mentality that races will always look after and gel better with their own race, that's a common fact, so if you really want something to happen, you need to go out there and make it happen, not wait around for other races to do it.

For example, I love superheros, I love action movies, I'd like to see more black heros being a black guy myself, but I understand that the makers of these series weren't black, so in order to see more black superheros, there needs to be more black people creating comic book strips and getting them published, more blacks to turn them into blockbuster movies and more blacks to turn those movies into cash so that sequels are made.

I love writing, so its only natural that many of my characters will be black, its not racism, its just knowing what my race is about and at the same time trying to proudly promote my race through my work.

I don't understand people who sit around and do nothing, but moan when they see something not going their way, thats not the way to success.

I have a diverse group of friends, at least 5 of which are black, the rest of my friends are a mixture of different races and we get on like a house on fire, we have our tight circle and its hard for newcomers to get in, we have racial banter but no one takes it offensivly because we love each other to bits, thats just the way we are and its a nice change because my family is SERIOUSLY MASSIVE of which 90% of them are black.

I do find it sad that some people lose sight of who they are and how proud they are of their race, I also find it sad that others refuse to mix with a variety of races to learn what that race is REALLY like, not just the stereotypes and the negativities, because culture makes you open minded and you'll find that mixing with a variety of people opens up all sorts of new opportunities to meet people, travel to places you wouldn't otherwise go to, work in places you wouldn't hear about and those people, if you give them a chance will look after you, no matter what race you are, in thick and thin, why? Because colour of skin becomes a redundant matter and you start looking at people as just that, people.

 

[Merkavar]

The problem with racism is that in some cultures certain things are considered racist while in others they are not.

And excellent example is this KFC Advert that ran in Australia and was pulled from air for being racist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftZt-Dw_hQ&feature=related

yeah that was annoying. everyone seemed to think australians were super racist but that cause they all think everyone thinks the same as them.

that ad as far as im aware was never shown in the US. the only way people saw it was on the internet from people claiming it was racist.

isnt everything racist nowadays. make a sexist joke, thats racist. make a racist joke, thats racist. make a completely harmless joke that just happens to involve 2 black men walking into a bar, thats racist.

 

[gphjr14]

snip

Thing is at the time of the laws creation it wasn't just simple shootings it was arson and mob lynchings with then open participation of local governments. People could commit crimes on any minority and rest assured there'd be no legal repercussions. The laws are dated but as you've stated there's a reason for them, something they failed to cover in the South Park. When people choose to cover these topics in bits and pieces people don't see the entire picture and more harm than good is done in educating people.

 

[dslatch]

The answer to this question can be answered by watching a rerun of one of the late George Carlin's shows.

 

[SHIFTYMACO]

yeah that was annoying. everyone seemed to think australians were super racist but that cause they all think everyone thinks the same as them.

that ad as far as im aware was never shown in the US. the only way people saw it was on the internet from people claiming it was racist.

isnt everything racist nowadays. make a sexist joke, thats racist. make a racist joke, thats racist. make a completely harmless joke that just happens to involve 2 black men walking into a bar, thats racist.

Not sure if your agreeing or being sarcastic here,

The problem with racism is that in some cultures certain things are considered racist while in others they are not.

Ahhh, moral relativism. I was wondering why I hadn't seen that particular brand of philosophy for a while.

Explain?

 

[Genixma]

I don't know why but the first thing that came to mind when I read the title was someone using Fried Chicken as defense against something else. But anyway, I love putting a twist on things because I look extremely white so when someone mistakes me for being white and I go full on hispanic on them it completely throws them off. Kinda brings new terms to judging a book by it's cover. But, I figure it just happens.

 

[Merkavar]

yeah that was annoying. everyone seemed to think australians were super racist but that cause they all think everyone thinks the same as them.

that ad as far as im aware was never shown in the US. the only way people saw it was on the internet from people claiming it was racist.

isnt everything racist nowadays. make a sexist joke, thats racist. make a racist joke, thats racist. make a completely harmless joke that just happens to involve 2 black men walking into a bar, thats racist.

Not sure if your agreeing or being sarcastic here,

i was saying that the KFC ad wasnt racist cause it was for an australian audience that dont have the black people and fried chicken sterotype.

and i was saying that people say things are racist even when they arent. like racist is a synonym for discrimination so if something is sexist i have heard people say its racist for example.