Racism: Nature or Nurture?

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Zaik

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Jul 20, 2009
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Always wondered that. I mean, we all know that everyone is a little racist by default, otherwise racist jokes would never be funny, but I'm more talking about the hardcore racists who live this stuff.

And if it is something you're born with, can you really hold them responsible for it? I mean, It's not like they could help it if they were genetically designed to be excessively racist.
 

DefunctTheory

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Mar 30, 2010
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/sigh

Human beings are, from birth, designed to assess groups as enemies or allies. What type of groups is not ingrained in our DNA.

Racism is learned.
 

derelict

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Oct 25, 2009
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Its something that's trained into you. People fear what they don't understand, not hate it. Racism is something you have to learn from those you look up to, and on reflection, probably shouldn't.
 

Twilight_guy

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Human beings are born with psychological facilities that allow for the creation of racism and its sustainment (that's why it exists) they are not however born inherently racist. Racism is a cultural construction. Society and culture account for its creation and reproduction. If racism were inherent then it would have a long tradition of being about skin color it would be about a variety of things like eye color or hair length or other factors as defined by genetic variation among groups. Also Mr. douchy mc Douch-face in your avatar is surprisingly not made any funnier by a ridiculous mustache and still burns my biscuits for his giant douchness.
 

Zaik

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Twilight_guy said:
Human beings are born with psychological facilities that allow for the creation of racism and its sustainment (that's why it exists) they are not however born inherently racist. Racism is a cultural construction. Society and culture account for its creation and reproduction. If racism were inherent then it would have a long tradition of being about skin color it would be about a variety of things like eye color or hair length or other factors as defined by genetic variation among groups. Also Mr. douchy mc Douch-face in your avatar is surprisingly not made any funnier by a ridiculous mustache and still burns my biscuits for his giant douchness.

So what you are saying is that there is *no* way that someone could develop in a way in which these "psychological facilities" were pre-disposed to be less accepting of differences in others? They all develop more or less exactly the same?

By the way the reason i'm only responding to you is you're the only person who bothered to come in here and post something other than what amounts to "lol no"
 

Merkavar

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racism is learned. i seriously doubt if non racist family adopted a baby from the KKK or WBC they would grow up to be racist cause of their biological parents. if they did turn out to be racist it would be because something happened to them to make them hate or distrust that certain race.

like with me. for a little while i was racist(maybe not hating on everyone but more distrustful) cause the first person to ever be violent towards me was an aboriginal. they through rocks at me and when they missed they punched me in the face. i was like 6 or 7 and they were 3-5 years older.
 

Sudenak

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Racism exists because of age-old religious, political, and economical needs. It's hard to stomach enslaving blacks unless you strip away their humanity. Once you consider them as stupid beasts, then it's easier to handle what you are doing. Racism towards them bloomed from a desire to enslave them.

That's just one example.

There's no biological inclination towards racism. There's just societal needs, followed by teaching from bigoted parents.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

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Feb 20, 2011
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As with almost all 'nature or nurture' questions, it is both.

Our brains are programmed from our early tribal days to seek protection amongst people that we can identify with, and reject out of fear those we cannot.

This is cultivated into 'Racism' when combined with ill-informed and bigoted ideals pressed upon us in our childhoods.

You can add environmental factors into this as well. For example: increase in immigration = more competition for jobs = higher unemployment = resentment.
 

Zaik

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Sudenak said:
Racism exists because of age-old religious, political, and economical needs. It's hard to stomach enslaving blacks unless you strip away their humanity. Once you consider them as stupid beasts, then it's easier to handle what you are doing. Racism towards them bloomed from a desire to enslave them.

That's just one example.

There's no biological inclination towards racism. There's just societal needs, followed by teaching from bigoted parents.

Oddly, whites were enslaved by whites for quite a while before anyone realized they could go buy slaves from tribes in Africa by trading guns and such and turn a much better profit.

They weren't involuntary or for life, but beyond that all bets were off. You could bring subjective nonsense into it like "they were treated better", but you don't really know that unless you witnessed it yourself.
 

jamie543

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AccursedTheory said:
/sigh

Human beings are, from birth, designed to assess groups as enemies or allies. What type of groups is not ingrained in our DNA.

Racism is learned.
Yes but in making these decisions on who are enemies and who are allies it mostly comes down to what is familiar(safe) and a different skin colour is about as different as you can get.
 

Zaik

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NinjaDeathSlap said:
As with almost all 'nature or nurture' questions, it is both.

Our brains are programmed from our early tribal days to seek protection amongst people that we can identify with, and reject out of fear those we cannot.

This is cultivated into 'Racism' when combined with ill-informed and bigoted ideals pressed upon us in our childhoods.

You can add environmental factors into this as well. For example: increase in immigration = more competition for jobs = higher unemployment = resentment.
So, would you say that someone who *was* pre-disposed to racism regardless of environmental factors actually had a mental disorder, rather than just being willfully malicious?
 

Sudenak

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Zaik said:
Oddly, whites were enslaved by whites for quite a while before anyone realized they could go buy slaves from tribes in Africa by trading guns and such and turn a much better profit.

They weren't involuntary or for life, but beyond that all bets were off. You could bring subjective nonsense into it like "they were treated better", but you don't really know that unless you witnessed it yourself.
Whites were more expensive, less common (for slavery purposes), and typically were indentured. Blacks were cheap, and their culture wasn't as advanced, so they were taken advantage of.

And while I don't know if they were treated better, I do know that it was incredibly uncommon for a white person to enslave another white person from the same country and then treat them like an inhuman little shit without ever freeing them, making up slurs to call them, and separating them like cattle. Even when whites enslaved other whites, they did so from other countries (hence why some bigots hate, say, Jews or the Irish).

I mean, you can play devil's advocate, but...history's not really gonna back you up.
 

Jedisolo75

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Both. Racism is to a large extent stupidity, which is nature. However, it is also a lot of ignorance, which is just the lack of experience. If you are raised by racists, you will be racist until you you have experiences that teach you how stupid it is. That is nurture.

Of Course, if you are stupid, you will ignore your experiences and stick to your "the blacks are all evil, except for my buddy of course, he's one of the good ones." That's where assholes who say things like "I don't hate black people, just the ones who act like niggers" come from.

So, it's both. Although there is no doubt that it is much more nurture, than nature.
 

Riobux

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Both, but mostly nurture. Yes, we have a biological mechanism to discriminate against outsiders since acceptance of perceived outsiders may lead to our group breaking apart (think monkeys, they rarely let others join and they especially wouldn't let different people join). Not to mention, when we are part of a social group, we want people in the group to be as similar as possible.

However, it's mostly nurture. If you are raised to say "that race is a horrible group of people", you're going to believe it. There is also in-group out-group behaviour, as in some people act like racist idiots as a form of aggressive "competition" if the in-group is mostly, if not all, white. There is also the media moral panics over immigration, which makes the general population act racist and perceive the offending racist in an offensive and stereotypical way. Which the moral panics only work because we, as a human species, love stability and the idea of everything around us changes because of a group frightens us, especially if we're told it'll make our lives worse (even if they present no proof). We just perceive the news as being correct and just run with it. After all, to the every-day man it's their jobs to tell us what the truth is. It's even worse when they use evidences which, only to a more cynical and/or trained eye, can see the results have been skewed and false assumptions have been made. As off topic as it is, I once watched an environmental awareness clip where the person made the illogical assumption that correlation means causation. I was genuinely annoyed at the time that they were acting like professionals of their field, but yet was skewing data and doing their evaluations generally incorrectly. However, on a daily basis, news programs make basic mistakes, yet they're regarded as more worth listening to by the general masses than professionals in the field of sociology.
 

MikeOfThunder

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derelict said:
Its something that's trained into you. People fear what they don't understand, not hate it. Racism is something you have to learn from those you look up to, and on reflection, probably shouldn't.
I will actually disagree with you here, well to a small extent. I agree that racism is purely and simply 'nurture', however racism can also be created by someone who isn't surrounded by hatred. That is the most common occurance of racism (being brought up in a racist society/family/friends) but someone could gain a racist perspective by something traumatic that happened to them when they were young (eg, a minority person mugging could produce some deep seated racism). Or look at the other perspective, you haven't grown up with racism from your family or friends but others are racist towards you constantly, eventually you might gain a certain racist attitude yourself.

Also I do agree that racism/blind hatred usually evolves when people do not understand others cultures etc, fearing that their culture will be undermined by the 'foriegn presence'.

Racism is more a mixture of fear and hatred. Hate does have a fair part to play, whether blind or not.
 

CaptVickHartnell

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Jan 12, 2011
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While it's true that Humans will, innately seek out those similar to themselves the level of racism seen in the really hardcore types, ku klux klan, neo-nazis, the BNP etc. is definitely learned. Hatred is absolutely a learned behaviour. Humans are, at their core, essentially moral people. Children will only hate someone when given a reason to. The problem is, children are not mature enough to question these reasons, so will often simply parrot their parents' stance, or that of the community they live in because they don't know any better. You see this all the time at demonstrations of hate-groups like neo-nazis or the Westborough Baptist Church, where you'll have the adult waving their banners and shouting their slogans of hate, while children stand there in swastika or "God Hates Fags" t-shirts. It's sickening. These poor, warped children will grow up within this closed-minded community, and will naturally believe that that is the correct way to be, but this is, by no means, genetic. They may inherit these traits from their parents, but it is a social inheritance. No one can actually be bred to hate in that manner.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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There's a difference between the innate ability to discriminate - between threats and benefactors, between positive past experiences and negative ones, and generally what you favor and what you don't favor in terms of what is good for you and what you perceive as bad for you - and the culturally constructed extreme version of that discrimination that manifests as racism in some (sexism in others, and the other isms may go so on).

One is natural and we're born with it, and the other is something natural taken and sharpened and twisted by the environment (the "nurture" if you will) someone is consistently exposed to.

So both.