Rape vs Violence: A Double Standard

[Anthony Corrigan]

Unfortunately the rape vs violence thing is being used to hide a real issue, SEX vs Violence
No one things there is any circumstance where rape is acceptable, but SEX IS good, its the reason we are all here, its a sign of love and its one of the best entertainments and so good for the body (physically, psychologically, physiologically), this is one of the reasons why rape is so damaging

So why do games, censors and society treat SEX (not rape, consensual sex) treat SEX as worse than violence?
Its compleatly ok to watch someone's naked body get blown to bits in high def, full graphic slow motion but to see a naked body in a SEXUAL context (or in the context of just being naked even) is considered off limits and some how wrong

 

[Valkrex]

Jim Sterling did an episode about this in The Jimquisiton.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder

Enjoy

 

[DudeistBelieve]

The difference is that nobody's ever RAPED anyone in self-defense.

I mean how could it even work? Someone pulls a gun at you, you dive bomb for their crotch in the hopes of giving them a blow job so they don't kill you but out of shock they shoot you in the leg.

Robber: What the fuck, man?
You: I was gonna suck you off in exchange for my life!
Robber: I didn't want to shoot you, just wanted your wallet!
You: Well fuck all now!
Robber: What the hell can of plan was that anyway? You think if I was set on killing you the only thing that would make me change my mind would be an inexperinced blow job from you?
You: I really didn't think this through.
Robber: Clearly. You'd be under stressed, so it would of been lousy.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Unfortunately the rape vs violence thing is being used to hide a real issue, SEX vs Violence
No one things there is any circumstance where rape is acceptable, but SEX IS good, its the reason we are all here, its a sign of love and its one of the best entertainments and so good for the body (physically, psychologically, physiologically), this is one of the reasons why rape is so damaging

So why do games, censors and society treat SEX (not rape, consensual sex) treat SEX as worse than violence?
Its compleatly ok to watch someone's naked body get blown to bits in high def, full graphic slow motion but to see a naked body in a SEXUAL context (or in the context of just being naked even) is considered off limits and some how wrong

define sex.

Cause you say making love in maincharacter has with Sarah Conner in the first Terminator movie? That was right on. Tasteful.

or are you talking casual fucking where they do anal and the guy unloads on to the girls face.

cause one of those has it's place in artistic medium. the other is just porn.

 

[knight steel]

I personally believe in my humble opinion that if you allow torture to be in your game/the killing of innocent's that you should then be allowed to include rape perhaps even allowing the player to do it.

Now I know some of the common argument's about how they are different and why one is ok and the other is not so let me address those here and now for you all [note the following apply to video games not real life:

1-You can't justify rape:Actually I think you can a prime example is the girl with a dragon tatto were the female lead tied down her abuser and shoved a dildo up his rectum,in short if rape is a way to get revenge on someone who seriously wronged you then yes it justifiable in the same way torture would be. Also if you're playing a evil character it could be justified in showing how bad or depraved you are,and how people react to you.

2-Rape is more horrible as it continues to hurt you even after it over due to the trauma: And because of that at least you have the chance to recover and get better while murder it final,also what about torture that leaves a permanent scar and can damage your psyche for the rest of your life but it's allowed in video games,also this is not happening to a real person so what differences does it make it's not really damaging a person but is merely a representation.

3-Rape victims are still alive and this could hurt them/trigger an episode: So could alot of things what happens if your family and you were just in a serious car crash that killed them,pictures/games that involved crashes could be a trigger ect ect Do we block them from being shown it games of course not because their are always going to be things that could trigger an episode for people,also no ones forcing you to play the game too aware of what in it and avoid it.

 

[Abomination]

Rape is at a disadvantage in the comparison in how it's always a purely malicious act whereas violence can be done to prevent the wicked from doing wicked things. That being said, as games have become more and more violent and the protagonists have been open to more villainous characters than before.

Rape can become the ultimate expression of hate and punishment towards somebody though. A less than savory protagonist may perform such an act against an adversary as a form of revenge... but in order for that to pass these days the individual being raped would need to be one of the most despicable individuals one could imagine - perhaps they raped the protagonist's daughter or something.

I understand how people can get so hung up about rape, I personally do not and would be fine seeing it in games.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

Unfortunately the rape vs violence thing is being used to hide a real issue, SEX vs Violence
No one things there is any circumstance where rape is acceptable, but SEX IS good, its the reason we are all here, its a sign of love and its one of the best entertainments and so good for the body (physically, psychologically, physiologically), this is one of the reasons why rape is so damaging

So why do games, censors and society treat SEX (not rape, consensual sex) treat SEX as worse than violence?
Its compleatly ok to watch someone's naked body get blown to bits in high def, full graphic slow motion but to see a naked body in a SEXUAL context (or in the context of just being naked even) is considered off limits and some how wrong

define sex.

Cause you say making love in maincharacter has with Sarah Conner in the first Terminator movie? That was right on. Tasteful.

or are you talking casual fucking where they do anal and the guy unloads on to the girls face.

cause one of those has it's place in artistic medium. the other is just porn.

So you would compare watching someones brains blown out in slow motion, even zooming into watch what happens to the bone from a "good shot" with what?

Killing is wrong, consensual sex is good no matter how explicit it is so what exactly does it matter how explicit it is?

 

[Ikasury]

hrm... there's actually quite a bit of suggested rape in games if you know where to look or how to register the psudo-symbolism... Mind!Rape, Soul!Rape, Physical!Rape, etc. etc. if it involves some kind of non-human/human interactions, especially anything to deal with demons you can bet your ass there's something in there that at the very LEAST suggests rape... maybe my brain is just completely wired for spotting this stuff and i'm jumping to conclusions... but really, its there if you know where to look .-.

its typically coupled with some kind of specifically 'evil' violence, shame, or even abortion overtones, bonus points to demon babies of some kind... Demon's Souls i'm looking at you -.-

random violence/killing in video games is... silly, mostly, to be honest, why don't we take it as serious? because killing is EASY, its as quick and effortless as pushing someone off a bridge of sticking a knife in them... i know there's supposed to be a 'moral issue' when it comes to killing, but we as animals are just as programmed to do it to survive as any other creature, its already there in us to do it... and again, its easy, its just our build up 'society' makes issue with it and tell us its wrong, plus i think on some level no matter how into the game we are, we all know 'its not real', as in that NPC is nothing but someone attacking our character, they have no background, no history, no personality, nothing to them, they are a complete blank meant solely for the purpose of us killing them to get from point A to point B, so you can't even really call it 'murder', but that's getting into a completely other set of morality...

Rape is... well there's a reason there's an entire trope called 'Rape is a special kind of evil', removing the good/evil from it, even still its an act that requires a lot of planning, build up, power, force, etc. etc. and i doubt it simply damages the victim but the attacker as well, but they're usually already damaged anyway... rape actually has very little to do with just 'sex' and more to do with power exertion and humiliation, that requires a much deeper connection then 'killing' does... effectively why does it 'effect' us more? because it requires more effort to comprehend, and we ourselves are more adverse and shamed of it, especially if it happened to us... death is final, trauma is a lifetime thing...

even if we're not playing 'heroes' it takes that extra step in effort to actually go about 'raping our enemies' then just say killing them...

i have no issue with rape being 'in' video games, like i said, if you know where and 'how' to look its already there, just like in comics and movies its hidden under subtlety... and from what i've heard of the 'rape scene' in new Tomb Raider, didn't if you fail that the guy just killed her? so while he's being all creepy, yes, but its not REALLY rape... though it would make sense in the context... its just another one of those 'assumed' scenes, and i have no real issue with this kind of thing... like someone said earlier i think i had more of a reaction from playing Leliana's back story in DA:O... in fact there's A LOT of implied-if-not-openly-stated-rape in Dragon Age: Origins... hmm...

i think its a good thing people get a squicky reaction, it basically means you're less likely to do it, which is good... but yea, no reason to not have it in there... fuck half my issue with visual media is "if they can do it in books why not -insert media here-?" because seriously, books is free reign... suppose the audio/visuals are just an added push on the trauma scale or something *shrugs* psychologically is more disturbing then just imagining it in your own head i suppose...

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Unfortunately the rape vs violence thing is being used to hide a real issue, SEX vs Violence
No one things there is any circumstance where rape is acceptable, but SEX IS good, its the reason we are all here, its a sign of love and its one of the best entertainments and so good for the body (physically, psychologically, physiologically), this is one of the reasons why rape is so damaging

So why do games, censors and society treat SEX (not rape, consensual sex) treat SEX as worse than violence?
Its compleatly ok to watch someone's naked body get blown to bits in high def, full graphic slow motion but to see a naked body in a SEXUAL context (or in the context of just being naked even) is considered off limits and some how wrong

define sex.

Cause you say making love in maincharacter has with Sarah Conner in the first Terminator movie? That was right on. Tasteful.

or are you talking casual fucking where they do anal and the guy unloads on to the girls face.

cause one of those has it's place in artistic medium. the other is just porn.

So you would compare watching someones brains blown out in slow motion, even zooming into watch what happens to the bone from a "good shot" with what?

Killing is wrong, consensual sex is good no matter how explicit it is so what exactly does it matter how explicit it is?

Well theres just killing a person, then theres blood sprays like in Kill Bill or torture porn like the SAW movies.

Everything works in levels.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

I'm not talking about some backyard horror film, the game I was describing was Call of Duty.

Subtle its not but it goes WAY beyond simply not being subtle, the game slows down to give you the best angle as your sniper shot hits, it zooms right in (not as in the scope, I mean the camera turns to give the best view of the shot) and it even shows the damage the shot does to the bone and organs

And you think this is "better" than ANY consensual sex? no matter HOW explicit it is?

 

[Eddie the head]

To me rape is a form of torture, and murder is murder. Torture is worse than murder because you make a person live with it.

That's subjective at best. The fear of dying might be much worse for some people then the mental trauma you would experience form torture. For me out of the two to quote Tim form Mogworld "I kind of don't want to die." Yes it would suck to be tortured, but if I die I just don't "exist" anymore.

 

[LetalisK]

define sex.

Cause you say making love in maincharacter has with Sarah Conner in the first Terminator movie? That was right on. Tasteful.

or are you talking casual fucking where they do anal and the guy unloads on to the girls face.

cause one of those has it's place in artistic medium. the other is just porn.

Either? I mean, it has to make sense within the context of the game, and I feel the latter would be a harder sell, but I could imagine a GTA game it might fit in. They actually did a porn scene in Vice City if I'm not mistaken. They were "tasteful" about it.

 

[LetalisK]

Sorry for the double post...

I am not seeing rape going that way. I just think we have a double standard here.

What do you suggest? Add rape to the games or remove the mindless killing to balance things up? The latter is not realistic as killing has been a part of games since the beginning.
I am quite happy to keep rape out of it. It adds nothing of worth other than to cater to sick perverts and victimize women. At least in GTA you can kill all sexes equally.

Uh yeeeeah...what? Rape can only be there for sexual titillation or power fantasies? Come now, we both know games are just as capable of exploring the theme appropriately as every other medium.

 

[Anthony Corrigan]

define sex.

Cause you say making love in maincharacter has with Sarah Conner in the first Terminator movie? That was right on. Tasteful.

or are you talking casual fucking where they do anal and the guy unloads on to the girls face.

cause one of those has it's place in artistic medium. the other is just porn.

Either? I mean, it has to make sense within the context of the game, and I feel the latter would be a harder sell, but I could imagine a GTA game it might fit in. They actually did a porn scene in Vice City if I'm not mistaken. They were "tasteful" about it.

Exactly you could have subtle sex or full explicit sex, what difference does it make, both are NORMAL (as in everyone does them) compared to violence which is most definitely NOT normal.

 

[Gregory McMillan]

Until a game can do a sex scene without messing it up, then we can talk about rape. Hell, most movies can't get sex scenes right for that matter. I read A Song of Ice and Fire novels. Rape is ALWAYS implied and never shown. The reason being, no one wants to sit through a rape session. Human progress and history has been defined by murder, warfare, love, technology, etc. But never rape. You kill the evil king to save the world. Start a war in the name of a just cause. Get revenge, whatever. But rape never ends in change. Rape never solves anything. Soldiers rape only to demoralize the enemy or to satisfy base instincts. As a gamer there is no literary justification to rape another character. Great protagonists (even terrible protagonists) are playable because we as a player want some of the things they want. We want the good guy to win, we want the anti-hero to get revenge, we want the morally bad protagonist to get even. Rape never satisfies a goal. The only way is if the antagonist feared above all else to get raped, but we as the players don't think to rape him/her but to kill them or torture them and be done with it. For rape to have literary sense, the reader has to see some tiny small justification for it to occur. This is why characters like Gregor Clegane are despised, because they are rapists. George RR Martin doesn't even have to show you a rape scene, he just tells you who the rapists are and you automatically hate them.

If you were to have rape in a video game, it should be off-screen. You could hear the screams as you desperately try to find a way to save the victim. You could open the victim's apartment and find her lying there and the rapist gone. But it's not something that needs to be seen in it's entirety and certainly not something that needs to be done. Yes it's fiction, but fiction is based on reality at some levels and rape is something I'm sure even a Vulcan couldn't play around with.

 

[Shinkicker444]

The difference is that nobody's ever RAPED anyone in self-defense.

I mean how could it even work? Someone pulls a gun at you, you dive bomb for their crotch in the hopes of giving them a blow job so they don't kill you but out of shock they shoot you in the leg.

Robber: What the fuck, man?
You: I was gonna suck you off in exchange for my life!
Robber: I didn't want to shoot you, just wanted your wallet!
You: Well fuck all now!
Robber: What the hell can of plan was that anyway? You think if I was set on killing you the only thing that would make me change my mind would be an inexperinced blow job from you?
You: I really didn't think this through.
Robber: Clearly. You'd be under stressed, so it would of been lousy.

Honestly, first thing that popped into my head was something you'd see in a SAW movie.

"Fk the girl and I'll let you live." Or something like that.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I consider Rape as a Continual Condition. Like most people, I sadly know my share of rape victims. Most lead productive lives. But almost all have their lives colored by that few minutes of their lives, never to be the same again.

I don't think most people can completely understand what it is to know that you aren't control of your own body. To be helpless and reduced to a play thing for some sick maniac. But on the same token, others do.

Why do you think it's perfectly legal and understandable to kill combatants... but not torture them? Rape is a form of torture, I feel. It's something done to you that you can never fix, or replace. It is taking your life and ending it... but letting you live on with the ramifications. It's cruel and unusual.

we all hugged each other and felt great when those three girls from Ohio were released after a decade of being sex slaves [http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/ohio_prosecutor_may_seek_execution_iHDSj7mJxgLalTlF32FhIL]. We feel justifiable and righteous fury when we learn they are seeking the death penalty for that animal. And we'll move on. Our support will fade, and every time those girls close their eyes, their minds will dart from any one of the moments of Three Thousand Six Hundred and Fifty Two Days they were tied up and made into living playthings.

I've been punched, kicked, tackled, chased, shot at, threatened with knives.. and I don't think bad on any of them.

I do think back to the time that for one summer, I was sexually preyed on. A few weeks at camp of always looking over my shoulder, not really understanding what those older boys were doing, but hating every second of it. Wanting help but not even knowing what it was to say to someone 'This is happening to me, please help stop it'.

I'm not being hyperbolic about the being shot at and threatened with knives. It happened to me. Several times each. the difference is, I expect to die. Everyone will. If you believe in Science, that's it and you'll not even be around to feel bad about it being over. If you believe in Religion, you'll come back or you'll be in a place that puts our existence to shame. So those things, I feel ok about. I joke around. And I do actually take pride from experiencing.

I would willingly maim anyone who threatens to put me back in the place I felt like as a 10 year old. I will gleefully do it. Never again.

 

[FancyNick]

Here's my take on this whole thing. Games don't have the same sort of credibility as movies or books yet in terms of storytelling. So it would seem most are wary of using such a harsh topic when it is, as of now, largely untested. Besides it will never be used as a plot point as much murder. Very few media use rape as a central point whether it be book, T.V., or movies. It's just not a popular idea. Most people are very uncomfortable with any mention of it and for good reason.