Raping Female Characters Is Not Sexist

[the abyss gazes also]

Would it be equally sexist if it was a man being raped?

Male rape in the media is usually a different brand of sexist. All too often it is treated as a joke ("Don't drop the soap!") Or as non-existent ("How can a woman rape a guy? You can't rape the willing.")

Again if it were a male character i don't think a game in the tomb raider style would be the place to portray it because transition from rape scene to gameplay undercuts the gravity of the crime.

 

[Zydrate]

I don't find it so much sexist as I do... shallow. It's lazy storytelling. Like the kid in ME3. They're added to purposefully pull at my heartstrings... But the problem is I CAN SEE IT.

 

[Sexy Devil]

I'm suprised nobodies mad about the rape thing for the same reasons as me. I don't really care if they put it into a game as a story element but what bothers me is the fact that they are advertising the rape. They're using rape as a way to stir up useless controversy about their game.

And that is unacceptable.

If pissing everyone off was an intentional effect then she would have actually been raped. Instead she gets away, or that's the impression I'm getting from the trailers anyway.

Anyway, onto the actual subject matter. If they handle it in a mature fashion then that's just gravy, and the developers now get to be those guys who managed to pull off a brutal real life event in a tasteful manner in a video game.

However, the amount of whining about this is absolutely bullshit, and there's no other way to put it. In high school at least once a year I was given a book for English class that featured a girl being raped, and not once was it actually done tastefully. I Googled the ones I remember (Smashed and The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency, if you're curious) and there was never any shitstorm about either of these. You see, the issue isn't that rape could potentially be handled in a disrespectful manner, the issue is that video games are attempting to handle rape. And as long as we allow these views to colour our notions about video game, they will continue to be nothing but generic action movies with no hope of evolving.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

I'm suprised nobodies mad about the rape thing for the same reasons as me. I don't really care if they put it into a game as a story element but what bothers me is the fact that they are advertising the rape. They're using rape as a way to stir up useless controversy about their game.

And that is unacceptable.

If pissing everyone off was an intentional effect then she would have actually been raped. Instead she gets away, or that's the impression I'm getting from the trailers anyway.

You seem to be underestimating how traumatic just an attempted rape can be, it doesnt matter if it was successful.

 

[ElPatron]

So rape, which is arguably more about power then actual sex, can be sexist?

Aren't rapists the same kind of people that although heterosexual by nature, will get a kick out of raping a man because it heightens the sense of empowerment?

Yeah, everything is sexism nowadays.

 

[Legion]

I'm suprised nobodies mad about the rape thing for the same reasons as me. I don't really care if they put it into a game as a story element but what bothers me is the fact that they are advertising the rape. They're using rape as a way to stir up useless controversy about their game.

And that is unacceptable.

Indeed, that's a much larger issue. That suggests a disregard for the subject much more than just adding it into the game for 'character development'.

I honestly do not see why it is wrong for it to be in the game itself though. If it glorified it, if you were the rapist/attempted rapist then fuck yes there'd be an issue, but from what I have seen it is no worse than the sort of thing you see in the average 'mature' drama.

Why does nobody complain that Daenerys Targaryen gets raped in a game of Thrones? That Sansa Stark almost does, that the prostitutes are forced to physically abuse each other?

I'd say they are much worse examples, mainly because they were made up for the television show, they weren't even in the original source material. So somebody sat down and decided that they should include it for the TV audience.

 

[Zydrate]

So rape, which is arguably more about power then actual sex, can be sexist?

Yes because the proportions between male to female victims are incredibly skewed.
In accordance to law, I believe both should be treated with the same gravity.
However, in accordance to media... I just want people to recognize the problem.

 

[ramox]

Anyway, if girl appears on the island full of bandits, of course bandits and pirates always tried to rape any woman they got


It's history

See, and with this we get the core of the whole argument, or rather the reason for it.

The sad and depressing reality is, if a young good looking (and i guess that's not even a neccessity) woman strands on an island infested with pirates, bandits or whatever else those mean guys are, the probability or her getting raped (or sexually assaulted in some way or another) is not just high, it's getting close to certainty. If bunch of males, and i would go as far as to say they don't even need to be criminals, get to have total control over a woman with little to no chances of repercussions for them sooner or later they will lay hands on her.

And this is why i don't get the argument of "cheap story device". These things do happen, more often then not. On the contrary, i would find it unrealistic if they depict this story without such an atempted assault because, as sad as it may be, it would be quite unrealistic and in my mind would seem like chickening out of a hot topic.

Though, i do agree with most people that the quotes from Rosenberg are the real issue here, not the game and not the trailer.

 

[Valis88]

Between this, Game of Thrones,and various other stories and media.

Where will we be when Rape (of women) becomes 'mainstream', when it becomes 'sexy'...when it becomes acceptable, and normal.

I have this haunted feeling, in my soul, that we hare heading that way.

 

[BNguyen]

There is nothing wrong with using rape in any fictional work. However, if the creator wants it to come across as anything other than cheap and tasteless (and possibly makes shallow or at least badly defined characters) then it has to be dealt with with empathy. That's the key. It can be a catalyst for almost anything that the creators want it to as long as they contextualize the event and the resultant feelings. You have to go pretty deep on personal development that comes with it.

And that means that it is extremely unlikely that you can put it into a game and make it anything other than tasteless. Games just do not work like that. You can do many shocking things in games, but deep emotional explorations of the nature of self after an extreme trauma of that nature, you cannot do. Mainly because it is impossible to take a trauma like that and have the player feel that because they are too busy searching for medkits.

All of the moment of games that I remember as being shocking, and giving me a genuine pause were in fact disconnected from the plot. That works, it contextualized the brutality of the situations involved, taking the focus away from the rush of action into the results of it. Remember crawling through the wreckage after the nuclear explosion in MW2 ? Perfect example. Everyone who played that section the first time didn't believe they would die. They thought if they could just make it a few more yards they would make it to safety. Through the gameplay, we felt what the character felt.

You just cannot do that with rape. Aside from anything else, the audience is wrong. Men for the most part do not even try to understand why women would find rape to be so damaging, and as such no matter what you do, you cannot project that to almost anyone in the audience.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable that game makers think that its ok to just toss a rape into a game, and particularly to have a gaming icon get nearly raped. Aside from anything else there is a certain... textual problem with that. Seriously... "We rebooted Lara Croft and raped her". That's not what you want to say.

you seem to have a limited scope of the actual potential that games possess or are capable of doing for players. Not every game has to be a survival shooter action game. That is what the indie groups are trying to accomplish on some level, to say that they shouldn't try is to try and control what they want to produce for interesting subjects that can make us as gamers rethink our views of games entirely. When you stop limiting things of this nature, we can truly begin to understand what can exist.
just examine the Extra Credits video "sexual diversity"

 

[Ragsnstitches]

you know whats funny?

a woman that doesnt talk or doesnt show any emotion whatsoever (chell form portal)
and a girl that is programmed to ensnare you with her girl next door attitude (Alyx Vance) are considered 'strong' female characters.


yes. small to 'normal' chested/ normal proportioned girls equal strong character.

I don't recall anyone of import claim Chell (a blank slate with a female figure) had character at all, let alone say she has strong character.

All I have ever heard about alyx is that shes one of very few understated female characters. That is not concurrent with Strong female character, just that she is less stereotypical then virtually all of her counterparts in gaming.

What I do know, is that Valve make the least offensive depictions of female characters... not that they are engaging or have strong presence.

Then again, none of their main characters have strong presences. Gordon is a blank slate like Chell, barney is comedic relief and roguelike hero, Eli is the wizened elder and Kleiner is the eccentric old coot, Rossman is the unaligned sympathiser.

Even looking at l4d, you have the same archetypal characters being used. Bill is the experienced vet, Francis is the tough guy, Cloey is the spunky teenager and Louis is the highly strung business man.

I love valve and their line up, but they aren't exactly paragons of writing and characterisation.

EDIT: The only potentially sexist thing I can gleam from Valve is the ratios of men to women in their games. But this seems to be a media wide phenomena. I'd love to see a change though, as it can only add to variety, not take away.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

I'm suprised nobodies mad about the rape thing for the same reasons as me. I don't really care if they put it into a game as a story element but what bothers me is the fact that they are advertising the rape. They're using rape as a way to stir up useless controversy about their game.

And that is unacceptable.

That is the only reason I find to be upset about it, rape is not a fun thing, but its a real thing that if done correctly can be used in entertainment. With one of the first things us consumers see is a rape attempt does not bold well.

 

[DEAD34345]

Personally, I quite liked Lara Croft as a character, and not at all in a sexual way.

Spoiler: Frankly, I worry about anyone who was attracted to these: (NSFW)

I wouldn't ever go so far as to say she was well written, in fact she was quite 1 dimensional. A larger than life, "badass" type character who raids tombs and unearths ancient powers and prophecies because she's bored and rich. There's nothing particularly wrong with one dimensional characters though, really, especially when the focus of the game is clearly not on deep characterisation. However it still seems wrong when these new game developers try to explain "why" she is this one dimensional character in retrospect, and do it by having her be nearly raped/physically tortured a number of times until a badass appears (as indicated by the trailer). It just seems dumb, formulaic, and borderline offensive to anyone who actually has experienced these kinds of things.

Judging by that trailer alone, it seems no less shallow than what she was in the first place, and much closer to being actually offensive/sexist.

 

[ElPatron]

Where will we be when Rape (of women)

Because if it's a male then it's alright.

Yes because the proportions between male to female victims are incredibly skewed.
In accordance to law, I believe both should be treated with the same gravity.
However, in accordance to media... I just want people to recognize the problem.

You do realize that the statistics are faulty, right? Not only not all cases or rape are reported, but male-on-male and female-on-female rape are the least reported of all kinds of rape and assumed to be a lot more prevalent.

 

[Zydrate]

You do realize that the statistics are faulty, right? Not only not all cases or rape are reported, but male-on-male and female-on-female rape are the least reported of all kinds of rape and assumed to be a lot more prevalent.

I will admit there is a certain percentage margin of error, yes.

Either way, it's ALL evil and shouldn't be a throw-in plot development "just cus".

 

[Valis88]

Where will we be when Rape (of women)

Because if it's a male then it's alright.

It's never alright, ever. However guess which kind of rape is so highly sexualized and made out to be 'not that bad a thing really' or 'sexy' and 'hot'.

 

[ElPatron]

Where will we be when Rape (of women)

Because if it's a male then it's alright.

It's never alright, ever. However guess which kind of rape is so highly sexualized and made out to be 'not that bad a thing really' or 'sexy' and 'hot'.

The problem is that you could have left the post alone but had to add "(of women)", because the reverse will obviously never happen in the future and we shouldn't consider it.

And I fail to see how rape is being sexualized nowadays. I nearly vomited *reading* The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and I don't find vomit to be sexy at all. That shit caused me to go into a guilt trip for a whole weekend and it was not even real.

 

[Grygor]

I'm suprised nobodies mad about the rape thing for the same reasons as me. I don't really care if they put it into a game as a story element but what bothers me is the fact that they are advertising the rape. They're using rape as a way to stir up useless controversy about their game.

And that is unacceptable.

I agree. They're trying to spark controversy. And they're doing it in the most tasteless way one can imagine. RAPE! Are you kiddin' me? I don't care what you put in a video game. I don't care because video games are fiction just like movies, books, comic books, TV shows etc. And I think that games have matured enough to contain more adult material. But actually using rape to advertize your product is insulting.

What makes it even worse is this week's retraction, particularly the fact that it to them a week to do it.

In other words, they were trying to use the rape as a selling point because they didn't know any better - and the worst part is that, apparently, everyone involved was so utterly clueless that not a single person in that company could figure out that people might take offense until the story blew up.

[small]Then again, this is the same game where another gameplay demo shows Lara picking up a "prying tool" that is literally just a knife lashed to a stick, and then successfully using it to pry open a stuck door. This despite the fact that knives make absolutely terrible prying devices no matter what you tie them onto. This game is being made by idiots.[/small]

 

[Valis88]

The problem is that you could have left the post alone but had to add "(of women)", because the reverse will obviously never happen in the future and we shouldn't consider it.

And I fail to see how rape is being sexualized nowadays. I nearly vomited *reading* The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and I don't find vomit to be sexy at all. That shit caused me to go into a guilt trip for a whole weekend and it was not even real.

I apologies then, and I will retract my addition of (of women) in my other statement. Rape is bad no matter who it happens to.

However you have to realize that it's not us normal balanced people who find rape 'sexy' you have to look tot he media, and to advertising and all of that.

It seems, to me, that it is slowly being made out to be 'sexy', and that's scary, for all of us.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

You do realize that the statistics are faulty, right? Not only not all cases or rape are reported, but male-on-male and female-on-female rape are the least reported of all kinds of rape and assumed to be a lot more prevalent.

I will admit there is a certain percentage margin of error, yes.

Either way, it's ALL evil and shouldn't be a throw-in plot development "just cus".

I agree that it shouldn't be exploited for the sake of drama. But as a creative individual, who works hard at narrative construction and characterisation, I can't just omit the use of a rape scenario altogether, given that it is a potent traumatic event with lots of ramifications, both subtle and blatant, and not just for the afflicted character, but other characters as well.

If it works in the context of the story and the story handles it with sensitivity and competence, then I can't complain. In other words it has to be done without glossing over the hard to stomach aspects and sugar coating the severity of it. Or worse, dragging it out and making it into this overwrought and melodramatic ordeal and deliberately aiming to offend the audiance.



Whats more, is that you done have to explicitly show the rape. Implication is a far more powerful tool to be used.

Also, rape isn't gender exclusive and it isn't to be taken lightly in any case.

That said, I don't think Crystal Dynamics has the stuff for this content (they are the ones making it right?)

On a side note: this reminds me of a manga I read where one of the characters was sexually abused... but nothing comes of it. Nothing, its like it never happened and no one had to deal with it beyond a few tears immediately afterwards. It was just forgotten. Its not even a "grit your teeth and bear bare bear it" outcome... its like the author forgot it happened.

EDIT: Fucking BEARS again... I keep doing that.

EDIT EDIT: Ignore that, the Bear was right in this case. I'm just dumb.