Realistic enemy anatomy

[Piecewise]

In alot of games, FPS's especially,it seems like enemies have immensely strange anatomy. Sure, headshots are effective, but other shots, be it to the chest or big toe, seem equal in deadliness.I think that, in this day and age of powerful consoles, we should have more then the "head shot vs anywhere else" enemy. Ideally what I would like is an enemy which has within it a skeleton and internal organs and all major arteries. It wouldn't be terribly difficult, just make it in 3d, flatten it and then wrap it around the skin of the enemy and assign the correct variables to each part.

Basically, when I shoot someone in the heart with a sniper rifle I want to see them go down, when I shot gun someone in the leg I want to see blood and limping. I want to see some dang detail to these enemies. Weaknesses to prey on, realistic flaws and problems. If I spray a guy with smg rounds he should at least be moving a little slower rather then how it is now, when every enemy fights at 100% till the exact moment he dies.

what do you think?

 

[Jandau]

I generally agree that it's a bit silly that you can shoot an enemy in the torso, hitting the heart, lungs or other major organs, but it counts the same as a glancing shot to his big toe (assuming no body armour). Also, it's a bit silly that I can kill stuff in most FPS games by repeatedly shooting the big toe protruding around the corner...

While I'm guessing that most game companies aren't thrilled about making a complex anatomy engine just for one game, I could see a software studio making such an engine and then selling the rights to use it to individual developers, much like the physics engines are sold around today.

 

[Piecewise]

I think it's a vicious idea. Like, I think FPSs are disturbing; i only like classic games (like deus ex) that weren't hyper realistic, or bioshock, cause it's a bit fantastic.

Anyway, that said, i understand your motivations for wanting more realistic anatomies, and agree that it'd be a good idea.

fallout 3 has that, doesn't it? to a point?

While I agree, it is rather vicious (and cathartic) I just think its about time we get out of the habit of making enemies with two damage ratios, one for head and one for everything else.

I mean, if I can, on halo 3, shoot a elite to death with repeated pistol rounds to the toe, we have a problem

 

[TaborMallory]

Just wait for the future. You know, where the computers won't be destroyed by over-realism.

Father: "Hey guys, I just bought that new Windows 2000 computer!"
Family: "Oh, yeah? How much was it?"
Father: "Three thousand dollars."
Family: "Sweet Jesus! It must be revolutionary and shit! What are the specs?"
Father: "Well, it's got 64mb of RAM, a 3gb HDD, and a 133 MHz CPU."
Family: "Orgasm."

Yeah.. we dished out 3k for it......... it had Joust and Robitron though

 

[Piecewise]

I generally agree that it's a bit silly that you can shoot an enemy in the torso, hitting the heart, lungs or other major organs, but it counts the same as a glancing shot to his big toe (assuming no body armour). Also, it's a bit silly that I can kill stuff in most FPS games by repeatedly shooting the big toe protruding around the corner...

While I'm guessing that most game companies aren't thrilled about making a complex anatomy engine just for one game, I could see a software studio making such an engine and then selling the rights to use it to individual developers, much like the physics engines are sold around today.

And I really wish one would. While it might not have use in games like say, gears of war, in more tactical things like COD it would add all sorts of fun

 

[Gitsnik]

Hangon. It's been a while since I've done any real-space modelling, but if they can define a kill-box for the head then defining a similar killbox for the legs shouldn't be that difficult. It's just a case of checking the body height, leg height and doing the maths.

But I don't develop games, though I know enough game devs to think about discussing it with them.

 

[Anstrup]

I generally agree that it's a bit silly that you can shoot an enemy in the torso, hitting the heart, lungs or other major organs, but it counts the same as a glancing shot to his big toe (assuming no body armour). Also, it's a bit silly that I can kill stuff in most FPS games by repeatedly shooting the big toe protruding around the corner...

While I'm guessing that most game companies aren't thrilled about making a complex anatomy engine just for one game, I could see a software studio making such an engine and then selling the rights to use it to individual developers, much like the physics engines are sold around today.

And I really wish one would. While it might not have use in games like say, gears of war, in more tactical things like COD it would add all sorts of fun

Gears of war have different hit boxes (head, torso arms/legs),which is the precursor to what you are talking about. And is pretty damn tactical compared to CoD.

BUt yeah the idea is pretty awesome.

 

[Dark Crusader]

In alot of games, FPS's especially,it seems like enemies have immensely strange anatomy. Sure, headshots are effective, but other shots, be it to the chest or big toe, seem equal in deadliness.I think that, in this day and age of powerful consoles, we should have more then the "head shot vs anywhere else" enemy. Ideally what I would like is an enemy which has within it a skeleton and internal organs and all major arteries. It wouldn't be terribly difficult, just make it in 3d, flatten it and then wrap it around the skin of the enemy and assign the correct variables to each part.

Basically, when I shoot someone in the heart with a sniper rifle I want to see them go down, when I shot gun someone in the leg I want to see blood and limping. I want to see some dang detail to these enemies. Weaknesses to prey on, realistic flaws and problems. If I spray a guy with smg rounds he should at least be moving a little slower rather then how it is now, when every enemy fights at 100% till the exact moment he dies.

what do you think?

The problem being, the moment you start messing around with that stuff, all the ratings jump a mile high, which is something most developers don't want to do. Let me explain more vividly, the raters tend to ban things when they start getting to the point where a shotgun blast will mangle a leg, or a sniper round will rip torse pieces off. For a relatively close to point in case, look at Manhunt, that thing is half as vicious as what your thinking, and look how fast it got banned in so many countries.
I have always planned to someday set up something like that, where every detail as if it was happening could be seen(but obviously not on straight away). However, with no technical ability to do it, and next to no knowledge of the human anatonomy, that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Hangon. It's been a while since I've done any real-space modelling, but if they can define a kill-box for the head then defining a similar killbox for the legs shouldn't be that difficult. It's just a case of checking the body height, leg height and doing the maths.

But I don't develop games, though I know enough game devs to think about discussing it with them.

^ This, surely it wouldn't be too hard to throw a few extra hit boxes in there, no need for some crazy engine/program.

 

[Caliostro]

Some games already do this... Shamefully, only a very select few...

Thinking of Swat 4 or Fallout 3 here. They do this, they do it right. A shot in the arms will fuck your aim up, a shot in the legs will cripple your speed, and a shot in the chest will fuck a bit of everything but not as much.

Personally it's a mechanic I LOVE for all the depth and strategy it introduces...sadly these seem to be things most gamers are unaware even exist...

I will say, however, that too much detail in this area could be bad (i.e.: introducing major arteries and random weak spots and such). This is simply because random chance would take over making combat a major wankfest... I mean, nobody would be all too happy because they were shooting at someone from cover exposing little more than their arm and half their torso, then suddenly dying with a sprayed bullet to the chest because it ruptured a major artery...

 

[Gitsnik]

Hangon. It's been a while since I've done any real-space modelling, but if they can define a kill-box for the head then defining a similar killbox for the legs shouldn't be that difficult. It's just a case of checking the body height, leg height and doing the maths.

But I don't develop games, though I know enough game devs to think about discussing it with them.

^ This, surely it wouldn't be too hard to throw a few extra hit boxes in there, no need for some crazy engine/program.

Exactly my point. hitbox[hitzone][damageRate]. You can also hack around with sustained inuries in positions with the same concept.

Further to that, you can see someone limping without it being "gory", just like a leg can come off and they drop out of site (go to ground) long enough to "bandage" it up. Hell, we have so many foot-on-medic-pack health upgrades that the leg can just appear bandaged. There's ways to get around it.

Right now I'm imagining XBox awards: "100 Matches won with Zero Kills" because someone keeps incapacitating the enemy with leg shots. Or better yet, with arm shots which then neuter their ability to use two handed weapons or one handed depending.

(It gets more complex from here on in, like is the guy left or right handed with his pistol, does his accuracy drop depending on which arm is hit etc.)

I'd take a hit on environment aesthetics for a more accurate anatomy like this.

Edit: callastro's mention of SWAT4 has reminded me of that game. And yes they do it well.

 

[T3chn0s1s]

Did I miss... Doesn't counterstrike do just that?

I'm fairly certain the different hitboxes on the players in counterstrike do different damage, and it even depends on whether you have kevlar or not. In fact, on most servers it will even tell you your shots to different hitboxes. You were killed by {Skwad Manlee} T3chn0s1s, who hit you four times in the chest for 60, once in the legs for 13, twice in the left arm for fifteen, and once in the head for 93... You did 43 damage to him?



EDIT: I also want to point out that Left 4 Dead is hilarious in that leg and arm shots remove said limb from zombies Though, not so much for the realism as the 'woah' effect.

 

[Piecewise]

personally I'd like to see it in a game like Black, with the high detail only on enemies. Its always fun to make those generic goons suffer before they die

 

[Neopopulas]

Mentioning this in regards to consoles actually made me laugh a little. Maybe i'm just retarded but the idea of actually aiming with any real accuracy - like, say, at a leg, or toe, or right buttock - with any of the console controls lately is almost impossible. I'm great with a mouse, but using a little stick with your thumb just doesn't give you with the finesse you need.

However, in the same vein, the idea of being able to do this, or to have some sort of actual physical reaction from bullets. Sure i can shoot a guy a couple of times before he dies in 'real life' (sometimes) but they don't seem to have any EFFECT until straight up they die. I'd like them to actually react to being shot, fall down, crawl around, scream, shoot back - badly - or just outright die in a hail of blood and bullets.

That would make me happy

 

[Piemaster]

However, in the same vein, the idea of being able to do this, or to have some sort of actual physical reaction from bullets. Sure i can shoot a guy a couple of times before he dies in 'real life' (sometimes) but they don't seem to have any EFFECT until straight up they die. I'd like them to actually react to being shot, fall down, crawl around, scream, shoot back - badly - or just outright die in a hail of blood and bullets.

That would make me happy

Call of Duty 4 does this.

 

[The Lawn]

Just wait for the future. You know, where the computers won't be destroyed by over-realism.

Father: "Hey guys, I just bought that new Windows 2000 computer!"
Family: "Oh, yeah? How much was it?"
Father: "Three thousand dollars."
Family: "Sweet Jesus! It must be revolutionary and shit! What are the specs?"
Father: "Well, it's got 64mb of RAM, a 3gb HDD, and a 133 MHz CPU."
Family: "Orgasm."

Yeah.. we dished out 3k for it......... it had Joust and Robitron though

Reminds me of those old imacs we had at my old elementary school.
My cellphone probably has more processing power than those had.

My old man keeps telling kids the story of when he upgraded some workstations at his old job to 32megs of ram.

It seems almost disgusting how fast technology has progressed in the last 10 years.
Makes me wonder what will happen when I'm my dads age...
Hell my 2.4ghz dual core with 4gigs of ram and a 512mb graphics card feels slow sometimes...

Worries me a little...