reality is unrealistic

[Silver]

It's to make the games look gritty, not realistic. We generally getter a better rush from being in a gritty environment. Though I do agree, the over use of browns and greys in everything is silly. Mirrors Edge enviornment is completely white and red pretty much, I felt more immersed in that then I did in Fallout 3.

The thing about this is that developers tend to use it wrong. It's either all white and shiny, or it's all gritty and brown. To make it well, you have to use a tender balance there, that most just ignore.

If everything is dark, gritty and evil, it doesn't stand out, it's not special. There's nothing gritty about it. If everything is shiny white and red, then that's nothing special either, which can work, sure,in some cases. But to get something out of it, you have to contrast it with something else. To make something feel gritty, you've gotta show the non-gritty parts as well.

Imagine that you have a gorgeous futuristic town, for instance like in Mirror's edge. It's bright, nice, and sterile. Imagine then that the next scene shows you a broken down ruin of a town, the nice shiny white that used to be there is replaced by a dark, ragged gray, the spotless streets from before are cracked, muddy, and with newspapers fluttering in the wind. The company of soldiers that left in shining uniforms in perfect formation is under siege, taking cover in a broken down building, cowering. Their dusty uniforms are ripped, their helmets and weapons scratched and bloodstains cover their faces, clothes and hands. Almost half of the group is missing, and many of the rest are either lying down, whimpering, trying to keep from screaming out in pain and revealing their position or have several bandages. The captain, so proud of his command when he left the other city, is now sitting with his head in his hands on what used to be the bedroom wall, there's not much left of it. A woman with a bandage across her left eye is guarding one of the windows with an old rifle in her hands, and several cracks and holes in her armour.

If we only had one of the scenes, it'd still be a powerful visual, sure, but together they show a lot more. They show just what the captain and his soldiers are fighting for, they show what they came from, what they used to have, and just how far the war has progressed, and what it has cost. Going back to the city, the contrast now reveals just how shiny it really is, just how clean. It makes for an even more powerful experience, with these contrasts, with these new frames of reference.

 

[Nutcase]

or that there's no such thing as a stun grenade

WTH do you mean by that?

Stun grenade AKA flash bang AKA NFDD AKA noise flash diversionary device.
The current issue stun grenade in US Army is the M84. And FYI the SAS invented the stun grenade way back in the 60s.

Yes, but COD4 has both Stun grenades and Flash grenades, and as far as I can tell they're the same thing in real life, yet in COD do not have the same effect.

Well, they would hardly put in two differently named grenades and give them the exact same effect, would they?

This is obviously a gameplay tuning choice. Flashbangs, as well as frag grenades, are tremendously powerful. If modeled halfway realistically, they'd be even more powerful in a video game for a multitude of reasons (best summed up as an absence of IRL mitigating factors).

Counter-Strike deserves a good bit of blame for confusing gamers on this subject, seeing how it uses the word "flashbang" to describe a flash grenade with zero pressure effect.

 

[Rush_Thores]

You had me until CoD4. Endlessly spawning enemies with an infinite supply of munitions does not equate to realism. Overall, though, I say you're spot on.

You caught me red-handed here, I'm only a couple hours into Call of Duty 4 and this was my apparently incorrect initial impression and the first game that came to mind.

That's what I get for 'Did Not Do The Research'.

Ummm....

Excluding the supernatural bits, Condemed: Criminal Origins perhaps?

Well if we get to exclude stuff in this game, then this became much easier. In which case I say Kingdom hearts 2 . . .excluding the disney characters, chosen keyblade wielders, heartless, nobodies, pete (yeah I already said disney characters, but he's worth excluding twice) the rediculous clothes and hair, the bright colors, the unlimited air combos, reaction system, FF characters and pete.

But NOT squall or leon or what ever he goes by now, because he refuses to be excluded

So we have an NPC and... nothing else? whats left IN the game?

Haha, missed my point completely. I was pretty much mocking the last guy for undermining his own point by saying that game X was realistic except for all the unrealistic parts, so I took a very unrealistic game and said how it was very realistic except for the many unrealistic things about it. On the same page I hope?

Back to the thread

Well providing gaming can be taken as an art, escpicially nowadays that developers are teetering over uncanny valley so much, many aren't trying to press the make it look real thing, but my point being games are being used to convey a feeling to a gamer, and like any other art, many tools are used to get the player to feel what the developer wants them to, so games like gears of war that want to portray the gritty, intense, dark ways of war, that style helps it convey, and its a better game for pursuing that. Realism shouldn't realy be defined in gaming as "looking like real life!", but instead as portraying the dark, grey, whatever of reality like what GOW and GTA do. Despite the very different styles between GOW and Valkeria Chronicles (Spelling?), they both convey a feeling proficiently and may both be considered a work of art, but people hold the traditional definition of realism when they use that word (understandably), so maybe people need to consider that realism might develop a new meaning which is defined by this consistent style seen in "realistic games". While this is all just stream of consciousness guessing on my part, I think it'll happen and be pretty accepted soon.

 

[searanox]

heres something i noticed about so called "realistic" games. you know how people always complain that they are too brown and have too much bloom? well when you think about it that proves that they are pretty unrealistic. seriously, if reality was like that then we wouldnt notice that these games were like this. i cant be bothered to type any more now. post your thoughts.

You know what I "noticed"? That you've been reading TV Tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic]. Come on, don't just claim you thought of this (with the very same title no less) right out of thin air.

 

[Silver]

Yeah, because it's really the most original title for a topic ever concieved.

 

[searanox]

Yeah, because it's really the most original title for a topic ever concieved.

I agree.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Fable 2 had "realistic" jobs. In that they were boring, repetitive, and just like real jobs you didn't want to do them.

This alone is proof that realism in games is a pointless and ultimately worthless endevour UNLESS the thing from life they are trying to replicate is actually fun. Ball physics in golf games for instance, or bullet physics in a war game.

And is also proof that Peter Molyneux has creative retardation and needs to work in another industry.

 

[forever saturday]

i recently had an idea for my own game which would be partly to prove the point of this thread. it would have bright cartoony graphics, cartoonish looking characters, little or no bloom lighting, and the darkest story i can write (im also lampooning games that insist on dark colors for a dark story).

 

[Halo Fanboy]

It's to make the games look gritty, not realistic. We generally getter a better rush from being in a gritty environment. Though I do agree, the over use of browns and greys in everything is silly. Mirrors Edge enviornment is completely white and red pretty much, I felt more immersed in that then I did in Fallout 3.

The thing about this is that developers tend to use it wrong. It's either all white and shiny, or it's all gritty and brown. To make it well, you have to use a tender balance there, that most just ignore.

If everything is dark, gritty and evil, it doesn't stand out, it's not special. There's nothing gritty about it. If everything is shiny white and red, then that's nothing special either, which can work, sure,in some cases. But to get something out of it, you have to contrast it with something else. To make something feel gritty, you've gotta show the non-gritty parts as well.

Imagine that you have a gorgeous futuristic town, for instance like in Mirror's edge. It's bright, nice, and sterile. Imagine then that the next scene shows you a broken down ruin of a town, the nice shiny white that used to be there is replaced by a dark, ragged gray, the spotless streets from before are cracked, muddy, and with newspapers fluttering in the wind. The company of soldiers that left in shining uniforms in perfect formation is under siege, taking cover in a broken down building, cowering. Their dusty uniforms are ripped, their helmets and weapons scratched and bloodstains cover their faces, clothes and hands. Almost half of the group is missing, and many of the rest are either lying down, whimpering, trying to keep from screaming out in pain and revealing their position or have several bandages. The captain, so proud of his command when he left the other city, is now sitting with his head in his hands on what used to be the bedroom wall, there's not much left of it. A woman with a bandage across her left eye is guarding one of the windows with an old rifle in her hands, and several cracks and holes in her armour.

If we only had one of the scenes, it'd still be a powerful visual, sure, but together they show a lot more. They show just what the captain and his soldiers are fighting for, they show what they came from, what they used to have, and just how far the war has progressed, and what it has cost. Going back to the city, the contrast now reveals just how shiny it really is, just how clean. It makes for an even more powerful experience, with these contrasts, with these new frames of reference.

Portal did this perfectly. The extreme contrast from the white interior of the building and the areas with the writing on the walls was really scary and effective.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Though I don't have a problem with realism I think that attempts towards it are slighting the medium of videogames. The creative potential allowed by videogames exceeds the real world logistics required by realistic mediums.

In other words, cartoons can draw grand landscapes that would cost millions to create in film. So the medium of animation lends itself to the fantastic. Film can capture motion so it is better suited for dynamic motion sequences compared to a novel.

Using all this technology to make a realistic coffee cup is just kind of silly from a creative standpoint. At the same time though, i love shooting coffee cups off of tables in videogames.

 

[forever saturday]

heres something i noticed about so called "realistic" games. you know how people always complain that they are too brown and have too much bloom? well when you think about it that proves that they are pretty unrealistic. seriously, if reality was like that then we wouldnt notice that these games were like this. i cant be bothered to type any more now. post your thoughts.

You know what I "noticed"? That you've been reading TV Tropes [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic]. Come on, don't just claim you thought of this (with the very same title no less) right out of thin air.

ok well i DID get the title from tv tropes but i noticed that this reality was so glaringly fake by myself. i dont THINK they said this same thing on the tropes wiki. also, its pretty reasonable that i could have thought of the title myself because its pretty straightforward. if it was one with an original title, like say for example fridge logic, then it would be unavoidable, blah blah blah.

 

[Silver]

Portal did this perfectly. The extreme contrast from the white interior of the building and the areas with the writing on the walls was really scary and effective.

Indeeed it did, and now we have an example of it as well. Makes you think that maybe other developers could try for it as well.

 

[Burld]

or that there's no such thing as a stun grenade

WTH do you mean by that?

Stun grenade AKA flash bang AKA NFDD AKA noise flash diversionary device.
The current issue stun grenade in US Army is the M84. And FYI the SAS invented the stun grenade way back in the 60s.

Yes, but COD4 has both Stun grenades and Flash grenades, and as far as I can tell they're the same thing in real life, yet in COD do not have the same effect.

Well, they would hardly put in two differently named grenades and give them the exact same effect, would they?

This is obviously a gameplay tuning choice. Flashbangs, as well as frag grenades, are tremendously powerful. If modeled halfway realistically, they'd be even more powerful in a video game for a multitude of reasons (best summed up as an absence of IRL mitigating factors).

That is exactly my point. I gave that example to show how believability is preferable to realism, and that rejecting realism can make a game more fun, more well balanced etc.

 

[Mariena]

I love realism. I just don't like half baked realism games, and I most certainly do not like slogans such as "THE MOST REALISTIC [WARFARE_SCENARIO] EXPERIENCE EVER!".

Realism where it is appropriate: Operation Flashpoint, Armed Assault, IL-2, (Combat) Flight Simulator and some more.

Some games want to be realistic but either don't "want" to be realistic, can't be bothered to be realistic or just can't be realistic. Let's take Brothers in Arms for example.. The most realistic World War 2 experience.. evar. Or not. If you want, I could point out all the glaring realism flaws in that game, but this is not a BiA rant thread.. Okay just one. Your allies did not have unlimited ammo in real life, nor did Germans pair up in groups of two and sit behind little bushes and wait for some red clock/circle thing to fill up!

Games like Call of Duty (1 through 5) have some realistic elements in them, but they're still arcadified and overall really arcadey. Basically, any games where you can run, gun, jump and still hit something, run over medpacks to get your 'hitpoints' up or hitpoints in general are not realistic. So don't say it's realistic. Boo! Also, try reloading your rifle while jumping, sprinting, or crawling through the dirt. Tried it? Not so easy, huh?

I like games that require a team, a squad or even a platoon to play through. I don't really want to be the supersoldier that can take out 3 billion baddies while chewing bubbleg.. wait. Well okay, but I still don't want to be that supersoldier. I want to feel like the average grunt in the military. Insignificant, expendable and looking out for him/herself. Injured? Better start screaming for that medic!

That said, I do enjoy games like Half Life 2. I thoroughly enjoyed Serious Sam.. But not for the realism. Probably because they didn't try to be realistic and failed at it.

 

[smallharmlesskitten]

I want to look out my window and go

"These graphics suck! I'm going to go play on my PC"

 

[sicDaniel]

I, too, love realism in terms of physics. What I can´t stand is night/day shift in many RPGS, it should at least be optional. It´s not that bad in Morrowind, though, but for example in Might and Magic 6 "night" means nothing else than "you can´t see shit and all stores are closed" so it´s only a nuisance and doesn´t add anything to the gameplay. Bonus annoyance if I can´t even rest to make time go faster because theres some rat hiding in the dark and you can´t rest when enemies are nearby!

 

[odatnarat]

games are products of imaginations.. i think it can never be too close to reality.. but for me realism in games are more of the graphics, the way characters react, the things that can be done in the game.. i think it doesnt matter whether the game is close to reality or not, as long as the gamer likes what he or she is playing...

 

[Praelanthor]

i recently had an idea for my own game which would be partly to prove the point of this thread. it would have bright cartoony graphics, cartoonish looking characters, little or no bloom lighting, and the darkest story i can write (im also lampooning games that insist on dark colors for a dark story).

lol sorta like that level in fallout 3 with the simulation