Binnsyboy said:
Evilpigeon said:
Binnsyboy said:
That's not how it works at all, and it will never work like that.
"Disarming the innocent does not protect the innocent". Or as I like to say, "DUH!"
Except that it does work like in many other countries, criminals are mostly disorganised and to get hold of a weapon with sufficient control and enforcement you have to be very well organised. And, you know what unless in your society is carrying around a handgun at all times, it's more likely that the attacker is going to be the one armed. You stand a much better chance of getting away from someone with a knife than a gun.
I understand that the US is perhaps too far down the rabbit hole for an immediate ban on guns to be effective but phasing them out over a long period of time could work.
There's a little less gun crime in places like here in Britain, but there's plenty of knife crime to make up for that.
I'd much prefer a situation where everyone is encouraged to have carry guns, with an amount of mandatory shooting, safety and situational training. A prospective criminal would think twice, because chances are every target is armed. People say that would just cause more death overall, but that's not necessarily true. If it's the common knowledge that everyone around you can protect themselves, it makes crime as a whole far, far less inviting and over time, there's a good chance it could lower hugely.
Plus I've always held the view that once someone (e.g. a mugger or rapist) puts someone else's base human rights secondary to their own personal wants, they sacrifice priority for their own rights. Fair is fair, after all.
And I have had many conversations with people who, if it weren't for carry weapons, wouldn't be able to safely go out alone at night. One of whom is an escapist here I won't mention because it would probably be quite rude to randomly throw her into this.
With or without weapons, people will find ways to at least have the ability to kill each other. Hell, I know how to kill someone with a damn newspaper. With that in mind, I much prefer a world where your bogstandard guy can protect himself.
Knife crime is much less deadly and it's much easier to escape, there's also less risk of your mugger simply attacking you (if you get caught by surprise, being armed is not a good thing, making the person with a weapon jumpy is in fact a very bad thing)
Hrmm how is the best way to explain this...
Okay, your first premise: Everyone is armed and trained in the use of a weapon. This means everyone with access to a gun, so both sides of the law. Or, in fact unless you make it mandatory to own a gun it'll go more like this; Your mugger will have a gun and there will be a % of the civilian population who're likely to be armed.
Now, how does premditated violent crime work?
You take your opponent by surprise, get the situation under control, get what you came for and get out.
So now, still on the criminal:
Your target is probably armed.
Your target is probably not armed.
Shooting someone and using a gun is a risk because it's loud and cam leave evidence so you aren't going to shoot someone lightly. But if they're armed then you have a risk that you probably need to take. Unless you're some sort of soldier or expecting the attack you're safer if your attacker thinks you're unarmed, hell scratch that, everyone is safer if the attacker thinks you're unarmed.
Guns are not good for self defence, it makes them too widely available and only the person who gets the jump on his opponent gets to make use of the weapon's range. Simply put, you can't run away from someone with a gun and honestly, from the defender's point of view a gun isn't going to be much more useful than, say a knife or pepper spray.
It's irrelevant that you can kill people anyway, deadliness is not black and white, it's more of a scale. A gun is an order of magnitude more deadly than necessary, arming both sides with something so powerful leads to unnecessary escalation and dramatically increases the chance that someone is going to die, essentially for reasons of history and national pride.
Your bogstandard guy stands a much, much better chance when weapons aren't involved.
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