Rebecca Black's new single.

[zehydra]

Infinitely better. It's not wonderful pop, but I've certainly heard a lot worse. It's catchy, the video is kind of cute with her mom (presumably?) in the limo, I'd much rather see this kid enjoy popularity than Justin Bieber.

Justin Bieber plays a whole lot of instruments and is a real musician. You must be a complete mental case if you think that this fake wannabe attention whore should get more credit.

They're basically the same. Bieber's a music industry puppet, nothing more.

Yeah yeah, we're all puppets. Difference is that Bieber plays instruments and is actually a musician. You can't deny that. Well you could, I suppose, but you would be uh, wrong.

vocal-only singers are musicians too. It doesn't make a difference whether or not he can also play an instrument.

If you're counting Justin Bieber as a musician, then there's no reason you can't call Rebecca Black a musician.

 

[DR3AMCATCH3R94]

that's not even music thats literally noise, theres no tempo no constant rhythm i mean it doesnt even look like they no what to do with those instruments. i listned to cannibal corpse and there pretty much noise as well but you can at least feel a rhythm and can tell they've had experience with music and instruments

 

[Pyro Paul]

Special is not superior. It merely means different. Out of the norm.

Distinguished can mean out of the norm, but is commonly always used when something is out of the norm in a superior way. Don't accuse me of twisting words when you're doing the exact same.

It does not in any way or form imply superiority. A person missing all his limbs is just as special as the strongest man alive, probably more so.

In addition to that the word "Specialize" gains additional meanings that the world "Special" has not. In specific specialisation, or focussing. But this additional meaning again does not contain any superiority, it merely means a focus.

The rest of your argument completely falls apart because you believe that superior and specialized are synonyms. Which they are not.

Acctually, yes, special does can and often does denote somethings superiority over other items of the like. 'Special Edition' usually have more content or go into depth deeper then a regular edition. Special Treatment usually entails something above normal. '.38 Special' is a bullet that is acctually more powerful then the standard .38 pistol round of the time.

again, although a dictionary says 'Unique' or 'Diffrent' as its entries... when placed in context the words acctual meaning is 'superior'.

Again, special is not the same as superior.

And even if it was who the hell are you to decide what is and what is not superior?

If professionalism is tied to superiority then it becomes a completely subjective statement.

In which case Rebecca Black isn't professional to you, but to anyone who's a fan of her she is a professional. Professionalism is in the eye of the beholder?

Special Education...
many people attribute this to retards, mentally challenged individual, and use it as an insult through out high school.

but really, what is special education?
it is a more involved, hands on, and engaging form of education which gives handicapped individual the time and support they need to learn the same content.

wouldn't you call a more involved and engaging form of education a superior one?

as to your questions...
um... History... Music theory... common sense. thats how i can 'decide what is and what is not superior'.

Rebecca Black has obviously not the vocal coaching required to augment her voice to hit specific notes. this is evident through the fact that they auto-tune her voice to hit every note she misses.

Because she is incapable/lacks the skill of modifying the pitch and tone of her voice to the levels of what i would consider an Average singer/performance artist... that would mean that she is Inferior to them.

are you arguing that Rebecca Black has the same singing skill as Katy Perry, Madonna, and other high profile singers? or hell, that she has the same singing talent as Miley Cyrus, Justin Beiber, and Seline Gomez?

you yourself has often said:
'What she isn't is good'
which would mean that she is
'bad'

which would mean that she is not superior...

They need to be employed as such. They do not need to be constantly doing their job (people do need sleep...) but they do need to do it often enough to sustain enough money to provide for themselves.

If you have just the skill but not the occupation then you are not a professional. Simple as that. No words being twisted, just pure and simple definition. In order to be a professional you need to have a profession. Having a profession means having a job/vocation, as you yourself say. If you do not have a job/vocation then you do not have a profession and thus are not a professional.

So Professional Grade steel has to constantly be employed to be considered Professional?
Professional Resume has to be earning a living to support its wife and child?
and a Professional Golf Club does not denote the superior craftmenship and skill that went into its construction, but rather it gets paid to hit the golf ball, much unlike those generic golf clubs that get rented out...

And "a Profession is any vocation which Pays for your Skill." applies to Rebecca Black. She has a skill. It's not an impressive skill at all, but a skill nonetheless. She sings. And she gets paid for it.

She certainly doesn't get paid for her time, she recorded it once but her earnings are in no way linked to the time spend recording. Her earnings are purely linked to popularity of her singing skill. She gets paid for her singing skill. By your own definition she has a profession, and thus is professional.

Tour dates?
up coming Live performances?
how about a show at any venue?

if she was getting paid for her skills in singing... she would be doing these things... you know, getting paid for her skills.

but is she?
no. No she is not.

what is she getting paid for?
She is getting paid the Royalties off of the recordings she did.

so, she is getting paid for that scant amount of time she spent in a recording studio...

Paid for Time = Not professional.

 

[repeating integers]

Is it just me, or was that song actually... not that bad?

She's gone up from "totally terribad" to "generic and forgettable", so I suppose that's an improvement. Perhaps she'll keep going up from here.

 

[Hagi]

Acctually, yes, special does can and often does denote somethings superiority over other items of the like. 'Special Edition' usually have more content or go into depth deeper then a regular edition. Special Treatment usually entails something above normal. '.38 Special' is a bullet that is acctually more powerful then the standard .38 pistol round of the time.

again, although a dictionary says 'Unique' or 'Diffrent' as its entries... when placed in context the words acctual meaning is 'superior'.

That isn't how language works. You can't just go on making up your own definitions for words. If you want to use English that means you stick to the definitions in the English dictionary. The moment you stop doing that communication becomes useless because you could frankly mean anything with the words you use.

And a 'special case' almost never describes a superior case. It in fact is most commonly used to describe a case which is worse then the average case.

On top of that you completely disregard that specialize isn't the same as special. Specialize is a different word, with a different meaning. It's closely related but not the same. It carries additional meanings.

Special Education...
many people attribute this to retards, mentally challenged individual, and use it as an insult through out high school.

but really, what is special education?
it is a more involved, hands on, and engaging form of education which gives handicapped individual the time and support they need to learn the same content.

wouldn't you call a more involved and engaging form of education a superior one?

as to your questions...
um... History... Music theory... common sense. thats how i can 'decide what is and what is not superior'.

Rebecca Black has obviously not the vocal coaching required to augment her voice to hit specific notes. this is evident through the fact that they auto-tune her voice to hit every note she misses.

Because she is incapable/lacks the skill of modifying the pitch and tone of her voice to the levels of what i would consider an Average singer/performance artist... that would mean that she is Inferior to them.

are you arguing that Rebecca Black has the same singing skill as Katy Perry, Madonna, and other high profile singers? or hell, that she has the same singing talent as Miley Cyrus, Justin Beiber, and Seline Gomez?

you yourself has often said:
'What she isn't is good'
which would mean that she is
'bad'

which would mean that she is not superior...

Again. Special != Superior. You can't make up your own definitions.

Specialized also means focussed. It means spending an amount of time into something that is far above average.

Taking into account that she's 13. How much more specialized can you be at that age?

So Professional Grade steel has to constantly be employed to be considered Professional?
Professional Resume has to be earning a living to support its wife and child?
and a Professional Golf Club does not denote the superior craftmenship and skill that went into its construction, but rather it gets paid to hit the golf ball, much unlike those generic golf clubs that get rented out...

Steel and Golf Clubs aren't people. So the definition of Professional changes in this case (yup, definitions are tricky like that. They can change meaning in different contexts. Might want to grab a dictionary for once).

A professional item is an item made by a professional. So any golf club made by someone who focusses his attention mostly on the creation of golf clubs is professional.

And yes, I know that goes against your 'superior' tastes. But that's simply what the definition is. It's only used in the case of superior items since it's not worth using in any other scenario as the difference between professional items and non-professional items would be too small. But that doesn't change the definition, as determined by the Dictionary.

And as far as Language goes the Dictionary is our common agreement. We all agree to abide by the dictionary so that when I use one word everybody else knows what I mean with it. If you don't use the English Dictionary then you're not speaking English and this discussion is pointless.

Tour dates?
up coming Live performances?
how about a show at any venue?

if she was getting paid for her skills in singing... she would be doing these things... you know, getting paid for her skills.

but is she?
no. No she is not.

what is she getting paid for?
She is getting paid the Royalties off of the recordings she did.

so, she is getting paid for that scant amount of time she spent in a recording studio...

Paid for Time = Not professional.

Tours don't take time?
Any artist that has been on a tour spend time on it.
So I'm just going to say, like you are, that they were paid for their tour time, not their skills. Who cares about arguments! Silly little things, who needs those anyway! Let's just make statements that support my position!
Live performances? Paid for the time they spend on that, not for their skill!
Shows at a venue? Paid for their time!/sarcasm

Again you're basing your entire argument on your self made-up definition that special is exactly the same as superior. You can't make up your own definitions and still speak English. It doesn't matter if she's good or not.

What matters is that she's making a livelihood out of her skill.

That's what professional means. That's what the Dictionary says. And as long as you're speaking English the dictionary is god, the law and everything else.

If you want to start talking PyroPaulesian or any other made-up language of your own where words abide by the definitions you give them then sure, you're right. But as long as we're speaking English you need to stop making up your own definitions and start using the Dictionary.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

Still not as much of a cancer to music as Design the Skyline is.

Oh god...anything besides Design the Skyline is good.

For those of you who don't know who they are, here's the abortion that is Design the Skyline:

OT: Her new song is still bad, but it's good compared to Friday.

Fucking hell, that was the shittest thing i've seen in a while! One of those singers looks like Steve Tylers son :|

OT: There's still a shitload of Autotune on her voice, you can hear it in the awful timing of her performance.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

Paid for Time = Not professional.

Any artist/photographer/musician who makes 100% of their income from their craft is classed as a professional. In fact, as a photographer you only need to earn $20,000 of your total income from photography to join any professional accreditation and be considered "professional". The music industry is less controlled, but it still applies.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Special != Superior. You can't make up your own definitions.

Special
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/special

?adjective
1. of a distinct or particular kind or character: a special kind of key.
2. being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain: You'd better call the special number.
3. pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique: the special features of a plan.
EXPAND
4. having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc.: a special messenger.
5. distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual: a special occasion; to fix something special.
6. extraordinary; exceptional, as in amount or degree; especial: special importance.
7. being such in an exceptional degree; particularly valued: a special friend.

Special
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/special

Definition of SPECIAL
1: distinguished by some unusual quality; especially : being in some way superior
2: held in particular esteem
3a : readily distinguishable from others of the same category : unique b : of, relating to, or constituting a species : specific
4: being other than the usual : additional, extra
5: designed for a particular purpose or occasion


so... for it not being the definition there are a lot of entries in its definition which kinda spell it out as meaning it. Even Merriam-Webster, the maker and publisher of one of the most widely accepted dictionaries in the world Define it specifically as such...

And even though this proves you wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt... you still continue to argue over something you're clearly wrong about.

That isn't how language works. You can't just go on making up your own definitions for words. If you want to use English that means you stick to the definitions in the English dictionary. The moment you stop doing that communication becomes useless because you could frankly mean anything with the words you use.

And a 'special case' almost never describes a superior case. It in fact is most commonly used to describe a case which is worse then the average case.

On top of that you completely disregard that specialize isn't the same as special. Specialize is a different word, with a different meaning. It's closely related but not the same. It carries additional meanings.

acctually that is how language works... well the english language to be particular. It is also one of the reasons why the english language is one of the most difficult languages to learn... because of the extensive usage of suffix and prefix.

now, you're not supposed to 'Stick' with the definition in the english dictionary because the english dictionary isn't an end-all-be-all... infact, the dictionary is only intended to help you spell words correctly. The meanings of the words are implicit through the context of which they are applied, and a dictionary is intended to make you understand the basic meaning of that word so that the context can better define it.

also.
'special case' means 'inferior'?
now who's making up definitions?

infact... i can't think of a single instance where 'special' is used to denote inferiority over something else. please enlighten me with an example of how 'special' means 'lesser'

Tours don't take time?
Any artist that has been on a tour spend time on it.
So I'm just going to say, like you are, that they were paid for their tour time, not their skills. Who cares about arguments! Silly little things, who needs those anyway! Let's just make statements that support my position!
Live performances? Paid for the time they spend on that, not for their skill!
Shows at a venue? Paid for their time!/sarcasm

it is obvious you know absolutely nothing about the entertainment buisness.

to get a tour, show, performance going, the individual has to go to the intended the venue, concert hall, theater, or town (if set up in an open field, such as woodstock was) and Pay THEM for the alotted time for their performance.

now sure, you can get invited to a particular venue where you can do your show for free, but that isn't the norm. Every time you see some one on stage... They are paying for that.

so how do they get money off this?
Ticket Sales.

so quiet litterally, their profit is based on the number of people that want to come listen to them... or instead, they are paid for the skill they have, not for the time they put in.

The problem you're having is that you can't counter my argument and you're too blind to your own little incorrect definition that you can't admit that you are wrong.

Professional denotes a high level of skill or quality. Period.
Professional Theif, Professional Killer, Professional Grade, Professional Product, Professional Construction, Professional Singer.

to call Rebecca Black a 'Professional' is tatamount to admitting mental retardation.

She sings... (rather horribly) and makes money off of it.
she isn't attracting the masses for her good looks or beautiful voice...
she is being exploited by other people to make a quick buck off of her misfortion.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Paid for Time = Not professional.

Any artist/photographer/musician who makes 100% of their income from their craft is classed as a professional. In fact, as a photographer you only need to earn $20,000 of your total income from photography to join any professional accreditation and be considered "professional". The music industry is less controlled, but it still applies.

meh... sorta?

Accreditted Photographers just require credentials from reputable sources then take that to an offical outlet and hope they accept you. Granted if you're able to say that you can reliably get $20,000 a year off of your photography it can more easily get you accreditation, it is hardly a requirement.

 

[Low Key]

The song isn't actually that bad when comparing it to her only other work. Going further into music as whole and she's pretty meh. You can tell her new song got the autotune treatment, but it's not as pronounced. And at least the video had some thought and direction put into it.

 

[Hagi]

Special != Superior. You can't make up your own definitions.

Special
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/special

?adjective
1. of a distinct or particular kind or character: a special kind of key.
2. being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain: You'd better call the special number.
3. pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique: the special features of a plan.
EXPAND
4. having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc.: a special messenger.
5. distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual: a special occasion; to fix something special.
6. extraordinary; exceptional, as in amount or degree; especial: special importance.
7. being such in an exceptional degree; particularly valued: a special friend.

Special
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/special

Definition of SPECIAL
1: distinguished by some unusual quality; especially : being in some way superior
2: held in particular esteem
3a : readily distinguishable from others of the same category : unique b : of, relating to, or constituting a species : specific
4: being other than the usual : additional, extra
5: designed for a particular purpose or occasion

You see all those other definitions you're ignoring? They also count.....

Special is not the same as superior. Superior is one, but not the only, form of special. All those other definitions also count as special.

As I said before, if you're superior then you're special. But if you're not superior then it doesn't automatically mean you're not special. That's logic 101.

so... for it not being the definition there are a lot of entries in its definition which kinda spell it out as meaning it. Even Merriam-Webster, the maker and publisher of one of the most widely accepted dictionaries in the world Define it specifically as such...

And even though this proves you wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt... you still continue to argue over something you're clearly wrong about.

We're not talking about the definition of special here. Which I'm not wrong about anyway since you're ignoring all the other definitions you yourself quoted.

We're talking about professional. I gave you it's definition some posts back. You ignored it and replaced it with your own made-up definition. I'll give you the definition again:

"participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs "

Rebecca Black is making money of something many people engage in as a hobby. She's a professional. That definition is from your own lauded Merriam-Webster.

That's a definition of professional. Rebecca Black matches that definition. She's a professional. Simple as that.

acctually that is how language works... well the english language to be particular. It is also one of the reasons why the english language is one of the most difficult languages to learn... because of the extensive usage of suffix and prefix.

now, you're not supposed to 'Stick' with the definition in the english dictionary because the english dictionary isn't an end-all-be-all... infact, the dictionary is only intended to help you spell words correctly. The meanings of the words are implicit through the context of which they are applied, and a dictionary is intended to make you understand the basic meaning of that word so that the context can better define it.

also.
'special case' means 'inferior'?
now who's making up definitions?

infact... i can't think of a single instance where 'special' is used to denote inferiority over something else. please enlighten me with an example of how 'special' means 'lesser'

I gave you an example. "Special case". It wasn't a definition, it was an example.

A special case is commonly (not always, as I said before) used for cases that are inferior to the average case. Not superior. Special does apply to superior, but it's not the only thing it applies to. As shown by all those additional definitions of special you quoted yourself.

And the dictionary is the end-all-be-all in disputes like this. Words need a definition. When a definition is in dispute like it is currently we need a common source so that we both know to what we are referring when using that word. A dictionary is the only thing that can provide that.

When there's no dispute then you can allow words to be defined purely by their context, but in disputed situations like this you need to explicitly define words. Look at any scientific article, extraordinary care is spend defining words in order to avoid disputes over semantics.

it is obvious you know absolutely nothing about the entertainment buisness.

to get a tour, show, performance going, the individual has to go to the intended the venue, concert hall, theater, or town (if set up in an open field, such as woodstock was) and Pay THEM for the alotted time for their performance.

now sure, you can get invited to a particular venue where you can do your show for free, but that isn't the norm. Every time you see some one on stage... They are paying for that.

so how do they get money off this?
Ticket Sales.

so quiet litterally, their profit is based on the number of people that want to come listen to them... or instead, they are paid for the skill they have, not for the time they put in.

The problem you're having is that you can't counter my argument and you're too blind to your own little incorrect definition that you can't admit that you are wrong.

Professional denotes a high level of skill or quality. Period.
Professional Theif, Professional Killer, Professional Grade, Professional Product, Professional Construction, Professional Singer.

to call Rebecca Black a 'Professional' is tatamount to admitting mental retardation.

She sings... (rather horribly) and makes money off of it.
she isn't attracting the masses for her good looks or beautiful voice...
she is being exploited by other people to make a quick buck off of her misfortion.

How is that different from her Youtube vid?

She paid to get that video up. The only way she gets money is by people wanting to listen to her song.

By your own words she's being paid for her skill. The time spent recording she paid for herself, she didn't receive money for that. As you say: "their profit is based on the number of people that want to come listen to them". So by your own words, she's a professional. It matches exactly what you said.

And thanks for the personal insults. It's always nice when your person instead of your arguments are attacked. If you can't counter my arguments then just don't reply, don't start attacking my person.

 

[Pyro Paul]

infact... i can't think of a single instance where 'special' is used to denote inferiority over something else. please enlighten me with an example of how 'special' means 'lesser'

I gave you an example. "Special case". It wasn't a definition, it was an example.

A special case is commonly (not always, as I said before) used for cases that are inferior to the average case. Not superior. Special does apply to superior, but it's not the only thing it applies to. As shown by all those additional definitions of special you quoted yourself.
[/quote]

When i ask what do you mean and for examples, you are supposed to reply with some sort of evidence or clarification on the matter.

Because you don't, it means your Wrong.
your statement is incorrect consistantly.

no point in arguing with a person that is constantly wrong and skits around a subject like a troll.

so. washes hands of it.

 

[Hagi]

When i ask what do you mean and for examples, you are supposed to reply with some sort of evidence or clarification on the matter.

Because you don't, it means your Wrong.
your statement is incorrect consistantly.

no point in arguing with a person that is constantly wrong and skits around a subject like a troll.

so. washes hands of it.

Yes... let's quote only a single part of my post and provide that as evidence that I'm wrong.

I'll give you again:

Definition of professional:
"participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs [a professional golfer]"

Rebecca Black is making money of something many people engage in as a hobby. She's a professional. It's not complicated.

 

[Pyro Paul]

When i ask what do you mean and for examples, you are supposed to reply with some sort of evidence or clarification on the matter.

Because you don't, it means your Wrong.
your statement is incorrect consistantly.

no point in arguing with a person that is constantly wrong and skits around a subject like a troll.

so. washes hands of it.

Yes... let's quote only a single part of my post and provide that as evidence that I'm wrong.

I'll give you again:

Definition of professional:
"participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs [a professional golfer]"

Rebecca Black is making money of something many people engage in as a hobby. She's a professional. It's not complicated.

Performance art is not a hobby.
she is not gaining a living off of it (all checks are cashed to her mother)
she is not even all that good.

she is getting famous because people are exploiting her and subjecting her to negative content which she shouldn't of been subjected to in the first place.

but what ever, believe what you want.
call her a 'professional'...

 

[Hagi]

Performance art is not a hobby.

As evidenced by things like Karaoke and youtube videos...

I mean seriously? These are the arguments you're now resorting to?

she is not gaining a living off of it (all checks are cashed to her mother)

And her living isn't in any way or form provided from that same source?

Her mother pays for her living, with money earned by her videos. She's earning her own living.

And no matter who cashes the check, she is still the one earning that money.

she is not even all that good.

which is completely irrelevant to the issue.

she is getting famous because people are exploiting her and subjecting her to negative content which she shouldn't of been subjected to in the first place.

but what ever, believe what you want.
call her a 'professional'...

Yes I am calling her a professional because that's what she is.

Now I'm sorry if that offends your superior sensibilities because it's applied to a person you don't approve of but that's the way definitions work. They don't care about your personal sensibilities.

 

[Yosato]

Anyoen else notice that there are guitar and bass players at the beginning who seem to be strumming nothing at all?

 

[The Lawn]

Another piece of gobshite that will clog up the intertubes for a week before it gets old and inevitably forgotten by winter.

I don't however, feel sorry for her at all. The same kind of backlash happened with that Friday rubbish.

Anyway! To add some artistic value to this thread here's a good song.
Edit: Bad video thing.... wouldn't link.

 

[Acier]

The only thing we've really learned from Rebecca Black is that if you're rich enough, you too can be a 'musician! Training/talent, pff. She is everything that plagues the music industry right now.

Right now? Have you never heard of song poems? People collect those records. You didn't even have to be rich.